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-   -   We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1282517)

mouser 11-12-2012 09:38 PM

We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII
 
But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day.

Keep smiling through,
Just like you always do,
Till the blue skies chase those dark clouds, far away. -Vera Lynn

Prior thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1282073

BonkTastic 11-13-2012 01:15 AM

TO RECAP:
- Both sides suck.
- One probably sucks more. Consensus as a group still not yet reached as to which one.
- Deal still not done.
- Alcohol sales doing surprisingly well.


Discuss.

SidTheKid8787 11-13-2012 01:26 AM

Sunday really showed me the hurdle that needs to be jumped for this thing to move forward. When i heard the quote from Bettman "The time for give and take is over", it's no wonder the PA walked away at that point.

Mind you, Sid's assertion that it's not broken isn't entirely accurate. The 5% variance is really the only thing the NHL should be going after. The league shouldn't be dictating how the players get thier piece of the pie on top of cutting the size of that piece. I don't blame the PA for being a tad upset.

If the league brings a little more cash to the make whole and relaxes on it's contracting rights, this thing gets done in a week. Balls in your court NHL.

ARed 11-13-2012 01:26 AM

"..but I know we'll meet again to chat C-B-A"

Anyways, with Cowen out for the season and Ottawa's chances diminished, I'm even less eager to be strung along in this whole thing.

SaintPatrick33 11-13-2012 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouser (Post 55726737)
But I know we'll meet again, some sunny day.

Keep smiling through,
Just like you always do,
Till the blue skies chase those dark clouds, far away. -Vera Lynn

Prior thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1282073

"Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn? How she always said that we would meet again some sunny day?" -R. Waters

HeliDevil 11-13-2012 01:29 AM

I'm still optimistic about them getting a deal done. I think if we lose December, the season is over though. Please get this deal done within the next week. Please.

Ziggy Stardust 11-13-2012 01:32 AM

Probably B.S. but what the hey, we need some shred of positive news.
https://twitter.com/BaichwalABC7/sta...07546802769920
Quote:

Sources in Chicago tell me NHL lockout will be settled in time to get skating Dec. 2. And the Winter Classic at Ann Arbor isn't dead.
He's just a local sports anchor in Chicago, so I'm not sure how much merit or stock should be put into what he is reporting. Perhaps his source is the Ghost of Bill Wirtz.

SidTheKid8787 11-13-2012 01:35 AM

He should've left out the winter classic bit and it would've been a tad more believable.

Freudian 11-13-2012 02:00 AM

I hope this last round of messages that are all over the place (can get a deal done quickly if negotiations go right/don't see a path forward) is the last round of them showing off their feathers so we'll all be impressed before they get ready to sit down and get this done.

The one cloud I can see is that Bettman's somewhat uncompromising stance, which is part of the negotiation game, may galvanize the players. Many of them already have a distrust of Bettman and now they are seeing the guy being uncompromising. All it does is make Fehr's life much easier.

Much like with the NHLs first proposal in July, I'm not sure Bettman is reading the situation as well as he should. The players are competitive and proud. Give them something and the league will most likely get what they need out of this. I know it's probably not in his dna to leave some leverage unused, but it might be the smart thing to do.

SidTheKid8787 11-13-2012 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian (Post 55730587)
I hope this last round of messages that are all over the place (can get a deal done quickly if negotiations go right/don't see a path forward) is the last round of them showing off their feathers so we'll all be impressed before they get ready to sit down and get this done.

The one cloud I can see is that Bettman's somewhat uncompromising stance, which is part of the negotiation game, may galvanize the players. Many of them already have a distrust of Bettman and now they are seeing the guy being uncompromising. All it does is make Fehr's life much easier.

Much like with the NHLs first proposal in July, I'm not sure Bettman is reading the situation as well as he should. The players are competitive and proud. Give them something and the league will most likely get what they need out of this. I know it's probably not in his dna to leave some leverage unused, but it might be the smart thing to do.

Absolutely right Freudian. I really don't see Fehr standing in the way, if the players see a fair deal on the table either.

The players know they are giving back going down to 50% from 57% and can't understand how losing on everything else justifies signing on the dotted line.

On the other hand the NHL has to take the thing the players HAVE settled on and run with it. You're going to get you're 50/50. Now make it worth it for the players to put pen to paper.

Disgruntled Observer 11-13-2012 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 55730345)
Sunday really showed me the hurdle that needs to be jumped for this thing to move forward. When i heard the quote from Bettman "The time for give and take is over", it's no wonder the PA walked away at that point.

Mind you, Sid's assertion that it's not broken isn't entirely accurate. The 5% variance is really the only thing the NHL should be going after. The league shouldn't be dictating how the players get thier piece of the pie on top of cutting the size of that piece. I don't blame the PA for being a tad upset.

If the league brings a little more cash to the make whole and relaxes on it's contracting rights, this thing gets done in a week. Balls in your court NHL.

But the nhlpa keep telling the owners what to do with their money (increased revenue sharing).
Why can't the owners play that right back at them?

Chubros 11-13-2012 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 (Post 55730361)
"Does anybody here remember Vera Lynn? How she always said that we would meet again some sunny day?" -R. Waters

Hockey, what has become of you?
Does anybody else in here,
Feel the way fans do?

LickTheEnvelope 11-13-2012 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 55730345)
Sunday really showed me the hurdle that needs to be jumped for this thing to move forward. When i heard the quote from Bettman "The time for give and take is over", it's no wonder the PA walked away at that point.

Mind you, Sid's assertion that it's not broken isn't entirely accurate. The 5% variance is really the only thing the NHL should be going after. The league shouldn't be dictating how the players get thier piece of the pie on top of cutting the size of that piece. I don't blame the PA for being a tad upset.

If the league brings a little more cash to the make whole and relaxes on it's contracting rights, this thing gets done in a week. Balls in your court NHL.

:huh: I believe the contracting changes by the NHL closes holes in how players/management can go outside the pie... not how they get their portion...

RippedOnNitro 11-13-2012 03:23 AM

So when can we expect the announcement of the cancellation of the December games?

This Friday? Or maybe somewhere next week? Can't remember the date of which the November games were canceled...

T-Funk 11-13-2012 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedOnNitro (Post 55730977)
So when can we expect the announcement of the cancellation of the December games?

This Friday? Or maybe somewhere next week? Can't remember the date of which the November games were canceled...

I predict Thursday Nov 22.

Can't play hockey Dec 1 without having a proper TC at that point.

Kopistar 11-13-2012 03:38 AM

I heard a radio host on AM 570 today say that Staples Center along with other arenas has been notified to be ready to get the ice going again soon.


I fully expect to see hockey again at some point in December

RippedOnNitro 11-13-2012 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-Funk (Post 55731007)
I predict Thursday Nov 22.

Can't play hockey Dec 1 without having a proper TC at that point.

OK thanks! That leaves a deadline on next Wednesday I think.

RippedOnNitro 11-13-2012 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopistar (Post 55731017)
I heard a radio host on AM 570 today say that Staples Center along with other arenas has been notified to be ready to get the ice going again soon.


I fully expect to see hockey again at some point in December

Since I live in Europe I have no idea how credible AM 570 is...I will not get my hopes up.

SidTheKid8787 11-13-2012 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope (Post 55730921)
:huh: I believe the contracting changes by the NHL closes holes in how players/management can go outside the pie... not how they get their portion...

Other than the 5% variance the NHL wants, i don't see how any of the other things help get the players to sign on the dotted line. Theres a reason some are reporting "Don't get too greedy Gary" in their headlines.

Aussie King 11-13-2012 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedOnNitro (Post 55731097)
Since I live in Europe I have no idea how credible AM 570 is...I will not get my hopes up.

Not very credible if their Laker rumours mean anything.

mytor4* 11-13-2012 04:39 AM

Fehr and his stalling act is getting old.
Who's going to pay the damages for the lockout? What a joke.
Players wanting to be payed for an 82 game schedule while playing 60 games ,maybe evn less.
All i can say is crushed them Gary.Lock it down for the season.Take as long as it needs.
I expect a lot of perple lost a lot of respect for Sid after his stupid comments.
The more players talk the worst they look.

Ola 11-13-2012 04:44 AM

Maybe its the sunny day here in Sweden, and admittedly I've been uncertain at times, but the first thing I wrote on the lockout back in the spring was that I just could not see a full season being lost. Why? What is the diffrence from last time?

I just don't think the owners have the same bargaining power. They could win so much more last time around. What on earth could they potentially win this time (if you look at the positions of the parties right now)? Like how much would 28/8 raise the value of a club in the NHL??? If you compare that with what they would loose if another full season was lost -- it just seem impossible that a majority of 30 owners would risk causing such tremendous harm to the league as a lost full season would mean.

Fehr is obviously counting on the NHL to not push the button. And I personally think he got damn good reason to play chicken with Bettman on these marginal issues, for one reason and one reason only, I just can't see Bettman pusing the button. From this perspective, I think the league should be pressured alot more than what they are. That might help them speed up things.

I mean, let me ask everyone, who thinks its the PA that must back down, this.

1. Do you think Bettman would cancel a full season on the Xm dollars that seperates the sides and 28/8 and arbitration? That he would walk into the BOG telling everyone from the owners of EDM to Minnesota, from NYR to Toronto, from Carolina to SJ, that he felt it was worth it to cancel a full season, which undoubtedly would cause the league tremendous harm, because of 28/8?

2. If you do not believe the above, do you think Fehr does? Or independantly of what you believe, what do you think Fehr's best guess is?

And Fehr is undoubtedly telling the players his best guess too.

So from a point of who media, us fans, should focus on pressuring, I definitely think the owners and Bettman should be targeted. Fehr will play chicken with him and not back down. Bettman must move first.

mytor4* 11-13-2012 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidTheKid8787 (Post 55731159)
Other than the 5% variance the NHL wants, i don't see how any of the other things help get the players to sign on the dotted line. Theres a reason some are reporting "Don't get too greedy Gary" in their headlines.

That SOME being Mark Spector.:shakehead
I don't think the NHL is worried about what Mark Spector thinks.

mytor4* 11-13-2012 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola (Post 55731259)
Maybe its the sunny day here in Sweden, and admittedly I've been uncertain at times, but the first thing I wrote on the lockout back in the spring was that I just could not see a full season being lost. Why? What is the diffrence from last time?

I just don't think the owners have the same bargaining power. They could win so much more last time around. What on earth could they potentially win this time (if you look at the positions of the parties right now)? Like how much would 28/8 raise the value of a club in the NHL??? If you compare that with what they would loose if another full season was lost -- it just seem impossible that a majority of 30 owners would risk causing such tremendous harm to the league as a lost full season would mean.

Fehr is obviously counting on the NHL to not push the button. And I personally think he got damn good reason to play chicken with Bettman on these marginal issues, for one reason and one reason only, I just can't see Bettman pusing the button. From this perspective, I think the league should be pressured alot more than what they are. That might help them speed up things.

I mean, let me ask everyone, who thinks its the PA that must back down, this.

1. Do you think Bettman would cancel a full season on the Xm dollars that seperates the sides and 28/8 and arbitration? That he would walk into the BOG telling everyone from the owners of EDM to Minnesota, from NYR to Toronto, from Carolina to SJ, that he felt it was worth it to cancel a full season, which undoubtedly would cause the league tremendous harm, because of 28/8?

2. If you do not believe the above, do you think Fehr does? Or independantly of what you believe, what do you think Fehr's best guess is?

And Fehr is undoubtedly telling the players his best guess too.

So from a point of who media, us fans, should focus on pressuring, I definitely think the owners and Bettman should be targeted. Fehr will play chicken with him and not back down. Bettman must move first.

And Bettman will move first very soon in the cancellation of more games.
Bettman has a mandate from the owners and he's doing exactly what they want.

IceDaddy 11-13-2012 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopistar (Post 55731017)
I heard a radio host on AM 570 today say that Staples Center along with other arenas has been notified to be ready to get the ice going again soon.


I fully expect to see hockey again at some point in December


im sure all arena staff were told that just in case some miracle happens. I still doubt it will happen though, Fehr seems to be stalling


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