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-   -   OT An [MLB] owner's word - The cautionary tale of Jeff Loria (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1282979)

TheMoreYouKnow 11-14-2012 12:35 AM

OT An [MLB] owner's word - The cautionary tale of Jeff Loria
 
Tonight the Major League Baseball's Miami Marlins appear to have traded away almost their entire core to the Toronto Blue Jays in return for mostly prospects.

The Marlins are of course the team owned by one Jeff Loria. Loria had kept the Marlins' payroll among the lowest in baseball for years and constantly threatened relocation if the county and city don't pay a major sum toward a new ballpark. Local government finally agreed to spend taxpayer money on this project and the new park was built.

This was going to be a new beginning for the Marlins, Loria who so far had been happy with being a non-factor most of the time actually signed free agents and looked keen to have a good team to go with the new ballpark, new name and new logo. This show of making the Marlins a credible team lasted less than a year. It most likely ended today. Loria has a new stadium, a big % of it paid for by the taxpayer, and will be able to cash in for the foreseeable future with a cheap team and generous revenue sharing money. The injured party? Miami locals who may have a few less functioning roads, a few less teachers, firefighters and cops and Marlins fans who will have little reason to give a damn most of the time.

Jeff Loria, of course, is *very* familiar to Canadian sports fans, given that he played a major part in assuring the failure of the Montreal Expos. Loria's handling of the Expos was so bad, he was named in a RICO lawsuit - a term most have only heard in gangster movies and shows about outlaw biker gangs. Though the suit was ultimately thrown out, one thing looks pretty likely : Loria acted in bad faith and the league was in on it. Bud Selig in fact arranged the sweetheart deal that got Loria the Marlins in the first place. The question remains how on earth public officials in Miami and Miami-Dade County fell for this guy's promises given his track record.

This man has now probably screwed over two cities and two fanbases and his fellow owners supported and enabled him. This is of course far from unique to baseball. The NHL's shenanigans around expansion and relocation in the early-to-mid 90s weren't all that different. Dishonesty, ruthlessness and unlimited greed have been the hallmark of sports owners especially in these two leagues.

Will the public ever realize that this lot are at best entrepreneurs with a "robber baron" era understanding of business but more likely simply a bunch of crooks?

The Zetterberg Era 11-14-2012 12:46 AM

Might want to think about that second sentence.... I do feel terrible for Miami Marlins fans. You take away the cap and spend a bunch of money hoping to win, then the fans don't show up and the team stinks and drastic things need to happen. Cannot say I am surprised other than the dismal return they actually got. You could see this coming, just thought they would sell it off a piece at a time and get a lot more value.

DuklaNation 11-14-2012 01:31 AM

Loria takes advantage of money losing operations to weasel money out of the taxpayers. Re:NHL, obviously due diligence for new owners should be a priority for the league not just the purchase deal.

McRib 11-14-2012 08:06 AM

The only reason Loria was brought into MLB was to give Selig and co. a reason to destroy the Expos. His reward was getting a sweet deal to own the Marlins. I have no sympathy for this man and he deserves everything he gets.

cutchemist42 11-14-2012 08:26 AM

They had one of the worst seasons ever attendance wise for a new ballpark. I called it too.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...799&highlight=

What happened here thoush is despicable. Bud must be mad of how this makes the league look when it comes to getting freebie stadiums in the future.

cutchemist42 11-14-2012 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobs (Post 55758017)
The only reason Loria was brought into MLB was to give Selig and co. a reason to destroy the Expos. His reward was getting a sweet deal to own the Marlins. I have no sympathy for this man and he deserves everything he gets.

Gets? As in guaranteed profits due to fielding a $14 million team, collecting revenue sharing, and have a stadium you barely paid for? Loria does not suffer financially unless 2,000 or less start showing up at games..........which should happen. You are seriously looking at a 40-50 win Marlins team next year while the art dealer laughs in his luxury suite.

Montrealers knew what he was capable of, Miami should have done their homework. The same can be said of Glendale being taken advantage of by the NHL.

sina220* 11-14-2012 08:34 AM

Ha, we've been dealing with this for 20 years in Pittsburgh with the pirates.

Pirates, marlins, Astros, padres, royals, rays, etc. All great examples of how a league propped up on revenue sharing kills its integrity, parity, and competitive spirit. Revenue sharing essentially removes the incentive to try or work hard for many owners. Just like welfare does to people. There's no incentive to try harder, compete, or spend more to make more, if youre guaranteed a profit before the year even starts.

optimus2861 11-14-2012 08:39 AM

Can't help but LOL at this quote from July:

Quote:

A fire sale would be trading those guys plus Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes, Stanton, etc.
Names in bold all gone.

Loria is a true snake. Took an already-hurting Expos franchise and detonated a nuke on it, then MLB salted the earth on its remains. He appears to be well on his way to doing the same to the Marlins.

Ari91 11-14-2012 08:41 AM

The one star management left on the team is understandably pissed off. They better hope their young guys develop quickly and can fill spots in to be something less than pathetic on the field otherwise they're going to lose the only cornerstone left in their franchise. Poor Marlins fans.

Pujols is laughing somewhere because he was smart enough to figure out that the Marlins might do this...but had he signed, we'd probably be looking at a Pujols-Batistia combination. Damn Pujols and his smart thinking, lol.

Ari91 11-14-2012 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sina220 (Post 55758407)
Ha, we've been dealing with this for 20 years in Pittsburgh with the pirates.

Pirates, marlins, Astros, padres, royals, rays, etc. All great examples of how a league propped up on revenue sharing kills its integrity, parity, and competitive spirit. Revenue sharing essentially removes the incentive to try or work hard for many owners. Just like welfare does to people. There's no incentive to try harder, compete, or spend more to make more, if youre guaranteed a profit before the year even starts.

The Rays? I don't know how long they were bad for but I wouldn't say they're bad now. I'd say that whatever pains Rays fans have gone through have been quelled by management embracing the opportunity to draft wisely in order to get big talent at a great value.

cutchemist42 11-14-2012 08:44 AM

This just goes to show you how dumb a lot of elected politicians are to fall for stuff like this.

Pilky01 11-14-2012 08:47 AM

How dare you disparage the good reputation of professional sports team owners.

They're all hard working, salt of the earth, type people who just deserve a fair shot at guaranteeing their business can't possibly fail no matter how useless and crooked they are!

Somebody should have just guaranteed Jeff Loria 50% of BRR and then he wouldn't have been forced into this position by all those greedy players!

:sarcasm:

lynx 11-14-2012 08:52 AM

Loria should have Fehr on the payroll, Fehr's system has made him a very rich man over the years

sina220* 11-14-2012 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilky01 (Post 55758633)
How dare you disparage the good reputation of professional sports team owners.

They're all hard working, salt of the earth, type people who just deserve a fair shot at guaranteeing their business can't possibly fail no matter how useless and crooked they are!

Somebody should have just guaranteed Jeff Loria 50% of BRR and then he wouldn't have been forced into this position by all those greedy players!

:sarcasm:

This might be funny if you weren't too dumb to realize the baseball system that allows loria to do this was negotiated by fehr and its basically what hes trying to do with revenue sharing in hockey and threatening to pull the cap.

Nice try though.

yada 11-14-2012 09:01 AM

This is a prime example of why im in favor of a cap floor and forcing teams to spend a certain amount of money. In real world businesses you dont have a fanbase cheering on your investment. Sports owners should like the sport they own and be competitive and try to win not rake in major loot. Shame for florida marlins fans who can say theyve won 2 championships but most years are cellar dwellers.

McRib 11-14-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutchemist42 (Post 55758373)
Gets? As in guaranteed profits due to fielding a $14 million team, collecting revenue sharing, and have a stadium you barely paid for? Loria does not suffer financially unless 2,000 or less start showing up at games..........which should happen. You are seriously looking at a 40-50 win Marlins team next year while the art dealer laughs in his luxury suite.

Montrealers knew what he was capable of, Miami should have done their homework. The same can be said of Glendale being taken advantage of by the NHL.

Gets as in gets all the backlash he deserves.

cutchemist42 11-14-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yada (Post 55758887)
This is a prime example of why im in favor of a cap floor and forcing teams to spend a certain amount of money. In real world businesses you dont have a fanbase cheering on your investment. Sports owners should like the sport they own and be competitive and try to win not rake in major loot. Shame for florida marlins fans who can say theyve won 2 championships but most years are cellar dwellers.

I actually this has less to do with the salary floor issue and moreso concerns public funding of stadiums. I have a much bigger issue knowing elected offficials in the USA can fall for a glorified snake oil salesman where there is so much evidence out there to support not fully funding a new stadium.

Pilky01 11-14-2012 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sina220 (Post 55758885)
This might be funny if you weren't too dumb to realize the baseball system that allows loria to do this was negotiated by fehr and its basically what hes trying to do with revenue sharing in hockey and threatening to pull the cap.

Nice try though.

Don Fehr is trying to create a system in the NHL where crooked ownership organizations can bilk the local government out of hundreds of millions of dollars by selling them a false set of goods?

But I thought Gary had been dealing with Glendale for years already?

:nod:

Mayor Bee 11-14-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sina220 (Post 55758407)
Ha, we've been dealing with this for 20 years in Pittsburgh with the pirates.

Pirates, marlins, Astros, padres, royals, rays, etc. All great examples of how a league propped up on revenue sharing kills its integrity, parity, and competitive spirit. Revenue sharing essentially removes the incentive to try or work hard for many owners. Just like welfare does to people. There's no incentive to try harder, compete, or spend more to make more, if youre guaranteed a profit before the year even starts.

I disagree with most of this. The financial framework of MLB is broken right now, so the incentive to actually put revenue sharing money into the team does not exist. There's no salary floor, so there's no mandate to allocate money into the payroll. But there's also no chance of a small-market team suddenly rising up and becoming a contending team over a number of years, which means that there'd simply be a lot of wasted money year after year trying to maybe get one shot at the playoffs before sinking back into mediocrity.

The Marlins have the most disgraceful history, what with buying two titles and then quickly dismantling them. Ask any Cleveland Indians fan how much the 1997 World Series hurts, not just because Cleveland lost in 7 to Florida, and not because of the way that Game 7 was lost...but because the Marlins quickly junked that entire team.

yada 11-14-2012 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutchemist42 (Post 55759199)
I actually this has less to do with the salary floor issue and moreso concerns public funding of stadiums. I have a much bigger issue knowing elected offficials in the USA can fall for a glorified snake oil salesman where there is so much evidence out there to support not fully funding a new stadium.

Im *****ing about how the owner runs his team then the stadium.

Melrose Munch 11-14-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sina220 (Post 55758885)
This might be funny if you weren't too dumb to realize the baseball system that allows loria to do this was negotiated by fehr and its basically what hes trying to do with revenue sharing in hockey and threatening to pull the cap.

Nice try though.

The CBA the MLB owners agreed to? Including Bob Nutting. If it was that bad why are they making money? Everyone is. Why can't you admit the NHL is run buy monkeys already? Keep carping about baseball though. On and revenue sharing would not be an issue if the small markets wern't demanding it. The struggle NYR, TOR and players union is simply due to franchises like Pittsburgh used to be, always on the dole from someone whether it be the shiny taxpayer paid arena you got, or $$$ from Toronto.

Melrose Munch 11-14-2012 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilky01 (Post 55759283)
Don Fehr is trying to create a system in the NHL where crooked ownership organizations can bilk the local government out of hundreds of millions of dollars by selling them a false set of goods?

But I thought Gary had been dealing with Glendale for years already?

:nod:

It's always someone else's fault with people like sina220. You get fired for saying things like that in the real world.

Freudian 11-14-2012 10:20 AM

Donald Fehr: "The only sports stable in America is baseball."

AdmiralsFan24 11-14-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by optimus2861 (Post 55758511)
Can't help but LOL at this quote from July:


Names in bold all gone.

Loria is a true snake. Took an already-hurting Expos franchise and detonated a nuke on it, then MLB salted the earth on its remains. He appears to be well on his way to doing the same to the Marlins.

That's my quote!

To be fair they were averaging 28,405 at the trade deadline. That number dropped to 25,392 after the deadline for the average of 27,400.

And yes, this is definitely a fire sale and Loria is scum. ;)

I still think Miami is a good market for MLB. Fans there just don't trust Loria at all. Change owners and put a decently competitive team out there every year and make the playoffs every few years and nobody would be having a conversation about how awful the Marlins attendance is.

AdmiralsFan24 11-14-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutchemist42 (Post 55759199)
I actually this has less to do with the salary floor issue and moreso concerns public funding of stadiums. I have a much bigger issue knowing elected offficials in the USA can fall for a glorified snake oil salesman where there is so much evidence out there to support not fully funding a new stadium.

Some that do fall for it don't keep their jobs very long.


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