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-   -   Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎ (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1283175)

mouser 11-14-2012 03:53 PM

Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎
 
Remember how she said that
We would meet again
Some sunny day? - Roger Waters


Carry on, previous thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1282517

BLONG7 11-14-2012 03:58 PM

Get a deal done............come on ........:rant:

Langdon Alger* 11-14-2012 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLONG7 (Post 55768617)
Get a deal done............come on ........:rant:

Puck drops January 1. I'd bet money on it if I had some to spare.

Timmy 11-14-2012 04:00 PM

And when they've given you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall.

Phil Parent 11-14-2012 04:01 PM

Are we idiots because we care?

Wondered about this today. Most of our livelihoods don't depend on this. What if they don't play the next 5 years, **** them!

....but see, I just can't say "**** them!"

I guess I'm an idiot. Or, a Canadian.

Hullois 11-14-2012 04:01 PM

The owners are being ridiculous, even after the players concede the 50/50 split, owners want them to give up all contracts rights. And this whole "we make a take it or leave it offer, then go silent for two weeks" negociation technique from the NHL is bullcrap. And all that after the best season the league ever had.

Way to go owners, let's just kill the NHL.

Mr Jiggyfly 11-14-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBPantherfan (Post 55768413)
No there wasn't a rookie cap of any kind before last year. You may be thinking of the NBA but there has been nothing in the NFL.

The NFL has had a rookie salary pool for years. Each team was allocated a certain percentage they could spend on their rookies, based on where they pick and the number of picks they have.

The new CBA set forth a wage scale, which dramatically lowered how much rookies can make.

Morgoth Bauglir 11-14-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouser (Post 55768533)
Remember how she said that
We would meet again
Some sunny day? - Roger Waters


Carry on, previous thread here:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1282517

He he he :handclap:

mossey3535 11-14-2012 04:06 PM

No, the players would NOT be better off with a union. And everyone knows what I think of the current situation.

They need to blow up their union and completely revamp it. You'd think that getting bent over a barrel twice by their own PA leader would teach them that they need to be more involved in union affairs.

I really believe hockey players are among the most intelligent in all of sports (not that the bar is particularly high). However, like many athletes they blindly let others take care of matters they don't think are important, like finances. Besides lavish lifestyle, that's why you see pro athletes going broke - they consistently get bad financial advice and are not involved enough in their own affairs to catch embezzlement or fraud until it's too late.

That's the difference IMO with Fehr and Bettmann right now. Make no mistake, I don't like Gary. He's a jerk. (I do respect some of the things he's accomplished though) Both have some pretty heavy-handed controls over the people they represent.

However, who do you think is more likely to suddenly and without warning fire their representative - 30 billionaire owners who are used to getting what they want, or 700 disjointed players?

Who is in a better position to know exactly what their representative is doing for their benefit, and be willing to get rid of them?

You better believe it's the owners. If Gary was not doing his job to their satisfaction, it would be easy for all these rich guys to get together and fire him, 75% vote or not.

Right now Gary has a plan. You might not like it, but it makes at least some sense for everyone.

Don has no plan.

That's what it comes down to for me. I don't care who you like or don't like. I don't care about your petty semantic arguments that circle around the matter like pedantic vultures.

The games is being hurt by both sides. However as it stands, Gary isn't hurting the owners. But Don is hurting the players.

Why in the hell does that sound right to you? The bad guy isn't even playing the bad guy.

Phil Parent 11-14-2012 04:06 PM

According to RDS.ca they don't even communicate by phone or email anymore. That was some ugly meltdown :-s

Nanuk23 11-14-2012 04:06 PM

HockeyNightInCanada ‏@hockeynight
There is zero communication between sides in NHL labour dispute, with no meetings scheduled, no plans to meet

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...ehr-nhlpa.html

sheed36 11-14-2012 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hullois (Post 55768699)
The owners are being ridiculous, even after the players concede the 50/50 split, owners want them to give up all contracts rights. And this whole "we make a take it or leave it offer, then go silent for two weeks" negociation technique from the NHL is bullcrap. And all that after the best season the league ever had.

Way to go owners, let's just kill the NHL.

Waits for someone to reply for the 1000th time explaining why it wasn't actually a 50/50 split the players proposed in their offer.

Yog S'loth 11-14-2012 04:12 PM

Although our tools of communication are different, it's amazing how much this lockout feels like the last one.

Despite the issues at hand being of vastly different scale, we still have the same rhetoric and posturing. The same self-unaware nonsense spouted by players. The same overwhelming sense of impending, and inevitable, collapse by the union. The same anger and frustration from the fans that millionaires and billionaires just can't get it figured out. The same irrational and self-defeating behavior from both sides.

The same mixture of foolish hope that something gets done, mixed with the absolute certainty that it won't.

CpatainCanuck 11-14-2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheed36 (Post 55768789)
Waits for someone to reply for the 1000th time explaining why it wasn't actually a 50/50 split the players proposed in their offer.

Indeed: I find it odd that people come into this thread with accusations without actually knowing the latest offers proffered by each side...at least as much as has been reported.

Hullois 11-14-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck (Post 55768911)
Indeed: I find it odd that people come into this thread with accusations without actually knowing the latest offers proffered by each side...at least as much as has been reported.

Some people don't care that it will only be 50/50 after year 3, it still will be 50/50 forever after (or 'till the next CBA fiasco)

JDMSG 11-14-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yog S'loth (Post 55768893)

The same mixture of foolish hope that something gets done, mixed with the absolute certainty that it won't.

THIS

Absolutely true... And that is what scares the crap out of me.

Ragamuffin Gunner 11-14-2012 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hullois (Post 55768699)
The owners are being ridiculous, even after the players concede the 50/50 split, owners want them to give up all contracts rights. And this whole "we make a take it or leave it offer, then go silent for two weeks" negociation technique from the NHL is bullcrap. And all that after the best season the league ever had.

Way to go owners, let's just kill the NHL.

The players never agreed to a 50/50 split, ever. They agreed to make every cent of their current deals until revenues raise high enough that their contracts are 50/50. Oh, and they want a guarantees 1.75% raise on top of that.

billybudd 11-14-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

The old rules were negotiated by Tagliabue and my entire point is that he had just as difficult a situation as Bettman and he handled it well.. And the NFLPA didn't come close to getting screwed under him.
This is even weirder than the notion that Chris Gratton's "right in line with his comparables" contract from the late 90s is in any way comparable to Shawn Horcoff's grossly out of whack with his comparables contract.

The NFLPA doesn't have guaranteed contracts and, until really recently, offered no medical assistance to retired players who sustained injuries during play. They enjoy the shortest careers, most post-retirement health issues, lowest life expectancy, worst average annual compensation/retirement benefits, and all of this despite playing in the highest-profit team sport.

If the deals the NFL (Goodell/Tagliabue) has shoved down the weak NFLPA's throat over the years doesn't represent a screwing, nothing does, and it certainly cannot be argued that the NHLPA has had it bad under Bettman.

Orrthebest 11-14-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly (Post 55768703)
The NFL has had a rookie salary pool for years. Each team was allocated a certain percentage they could spend on their rookies, based on where they pick and the number of picks they have.

The new CBA set forth a wage scale, which dramatically lowered how much rookies can make.


Please, explain why if GB is such a bad commissioner that NHL player salaries have increased at twice the rate of NFL players.

Raging Bull 11-14-2012 04:22 PM

Sweet title. Made me look up the song on youtube to listen to it.

Hullois 11-14-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner (Post 55769019)
The players never agreed to a 50/50 split, ever. They agreed to make every cent of their current deals until revenues raise high enough that their contracts are 50/50. Oh, and they want a guarantees 1.75% raise on top of that.

Sure, I mean its not like revenues always end up growing, making it a matter of time for it to be 50/50.

But the way the owners are screwing the whole thing now, it may take a while. But that's on them.

CpatainCanuck 11-14-2012 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hullois (Post 55768933)
Some people don't care that it will only be 50/50 after year 3, it still will be 50/50 forever after (or 'till the next CBA fiasco)

That's assuming record revenue growth continues over the next 3 years...which it is unlikely to do. Especially as fans become more and more ticked off as this lockout lasts longer and longer.

Freudian 11-14-2012 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanuk23 (Post 55768781)
HockeyNightInCanada ‏@hockeynight
There is zero communication between sides in NHL labour dispute, with no meetings scheduled, no plans to meet

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...ehr-nhlpa.html

Huffing and puffing. We're all suitably impressed.

Hullois 11-14-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck (Post 55769083)
That's assuming record revenue growth continues over the next 3 years...which it is unlikely to do. Especially as fans become more and more ticked off as this lockout lasts longer and longer.

Nobody in NBA world is talking about the last lockout now. If Bettman can put his ego aside and get a deal ASAP, revenues will start growing again next season. Maybe not 7%, but it won't be long untill it reach somewhere close to that. But if they cancel the season, it may take a long long time for revenues to grow like that, you are right. But again, that's all on the owners.

CpatainCanuck 11-14-2012 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hullois (Post 55769141)
Nobody in NBA world is talking about the last lockout now. If Bettman can put his ego aside and get a deal ASAP, revenues will start growing again next season. Maybe not 7%, but it won't be long untill it reach somewhere close to that. But if they cancel the season, it may take a long long time for revenues to grow like that, you are right. But again, that's all on the owners.

It's not on the owners because they aren't going to take the NHLPA up on their offer. The owners have all the leverage in this lockout, and the sooner the players realize this and cut their losses the better off they will be now and in the future.


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