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-   -   Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1283655)

LadyStanley 11-15-2012 10:39 PM

Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)
 
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Ugene Malkin 11-15-2012 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockLobster (Post 55800667)
I finally had to respond to one of these TSN Pro Player guys, Scott Cullen



I had responded that the NHL wasn't technically wrong, only their initial offer was so low that by going up they were, in essence, "moving towards the players' direction". I also had told him that most fans believe that the PA should accept 50/50.

His response?



I've finally had enough of this. I responded that in the last CBA, you know, the one that Fehr likes to bring up saying "The owners got everything they wanted" in the last CBA, DIDN'T PAY OUT 100% of contracts (from what I've understood of the Escrow system).

And that I'm mad at both sides, because they are still fighting over how to split up money that we, the fans, will be giving to them...and it's a shame that the NHL and the PA believes that fans are just going to come back and continue giving the NHL record revenues.

Yes, their losses are only going to be compounded when revenues shrink for their first 2/3 years of the new CBA.

Erik Estrada 11-15-2012 10:44 PM

adater ‏@adater
NHL wants two-week break from bargaining table, and in next breath says players have no interest in negotiating. Solid logic there



NHL thinking outside the box? Maybe not talking will move the parties closer to a solution?

flameaholic 11-15-2012 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meedle (Post 55800515)
yep lets play poker with it. Ill call you and if you don't accept last offer, season is cancelled. ALL IN!!!

How about I call you first and tell you to kiss my ***! I'm ALL IN as well. :naughty:

See, we can just keep going back and forth with this.

mzappa 11-15-2012 10:45 PM

Two week break? They sure aren't working too hard on a deal now, are they? :shakehead

Renbarg 11-15-2012 10:46 PM

What am I missing here regarding Bettman. I heard Bettman suggested a moratorium, but it didn't gain traction.

NJDevs26 11-15-2012 10:47 PM

Unfortunately last week's meetings or whatever they did now feel like July 3 at Gettysburg just before Pickett's charge.

Morgoth Bauglir 11-15-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyStanley (Post 55800835)

Nice Midnight Cowboy reference (Harry Nilsson song) :)

pepty 11-15-2012 10:48 PM

I think the NHL had to get the word out that they are not close to any agreement on the financials. That seemed to be a story put out by the Union. For days we have been hearing from the media that the players and owners had come together and agreed on a 50/50 deal or were close to it , and scratching their heads about why the owners were holding up everything with their refusal to negotiate on the contractual issues.

The PA was setting the league up to take the fall when no deal was forthcoming,despite their denials that an agreement on the financials was even close.Maybe this time they got thier message across.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179601461.html

In an email to the Star Tribune, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."

NYRKING30 11-15-2012 10:48 PM

The thing that really pisses me off till no end and drives me delusional in my nightmares is that when the smoke all clears and the debris is cleaned out, the PA will wind up taken a deal like what has been offered already or worse just possibly after a season is cancelled. Lose a years worth of salary and lose a few seasons of lower revenue due to this bull****. It has been said before, but REALLY I mean REALLY what world does that make any sense in. God no wonder all these athletes have failed business ventures.

meedle 11-15-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flameaholic (Post 55800981)
How about I call you first and tell you to kiss my ***! I'm ALL IN as well. :naughty:

See, we can just keep going back and forth with this.

Well i guess since the season is gone, Ill declare an impasse and tell owners to start collecting talent as replacement players in the next season

NJDevs26 11-15-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renbarg (Post 55801015)
What am I missing here regarding Bettman. I heard Bettman suggested a moratorium, but it didn't gain traction.

It doesn't really matter since neither side wants to talk until the last minute anyway. Why would they? The Winter Classic, All-Star weekend and the first two months have already been canceled. They have no real motivation to save one more month of regular season games, the next (and last) serious negotiation will be the two weeks before d-day, if that and whenever that comes.

Timmy 11-15-2012 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renbarg (Post 55801015)
What am I missing here regarding Bettman. I heard Bettman suggested a moratorium, but it didn't gain traction.


Moratorium is latin for "water break".

He's simply trying to help Fehr with his unquenchable thirst issues...

flameaholic 11-15-2012 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renbarg (Post 55801015)
What am I missing here regarding Bettman. I heard Bettman suggested a moratorium, but it didn't gain traction.

Nobody cares what Gary Bettman has to say anymore. He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

Ari91 11-15-2012 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Estrada (Post 55800961)
adater ‏@adater
NHL wants two-week break from bargaining table, and in next breath says players have no interest in negotiating. Solid logic there



NHL thinking outside the box? Maybe not talking will move the parties closer to a solution?

Hey adater, did the league say it wants a break or did they suggest a break because one side admitted that they didn't know how both sides could proceed with negotiations?

getyourselfsomerest 11-15-2012 10:49 PM

So both sides agree that they need to meet. Both sides agree(or at least suggest) that a mediator might be a good idea. So WHY aren't they meeting? This is ridiculous. They're ruining the NHL with every passing day. Maybe I'll take up knitting.

Erik Estrada 11-15-2012 10:49 PM

Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
NHLPA refuses to opt for 2-week "moratorium" on talks suggested by NHL. Not surprising.

SuperUnknown 11-15-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Estrada (Post 55800961)
adater ‏@adater
NHL wants two-week break from bargaining table, and in next breath says players have no interest in negotiating. Solid logic there

What's the use of being at the bargaining table if you're not actively bargaining? It's not because you sit at a table that you are negociating.

haseoke39 11-15-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeda1940 (Post 55800753)
I respectfully disagree.

Alright, let me break down what would happen for you:

(1) Exactly what's happening now, but with 100% of NHLers rather than 30%. A handful go to Europe, a handful go to the AHL, a handful to the KHL. None of these leagues see a significant boost in revenue, because NHL fans - rather than following players they once watched to different time zones and teams they've never cared about - just give up on the game. The KHL, AHL, etc aren't suddenly able to charge more for tickets. Just like you didn't notice the Edmonton Oilers farm team blow up to NHL proportions just because their top kids are spending time there. That's year 1.

(2) Year 2: fans around the NHL who are loyal to their teams still have a TON more money to give to the game of hockey than any of these other leagues could make in their wet dreams, so NHL teams remain the top destination for the world's new talent. Almost every kid who was going to be drafted by an NHL team still wants to be drafted by an NHL team, because every executive knows it will take 3 years tops to restock the league with talent after the PA goes kaboom and so they're still willing to pay 500% of what anyone else in the world can pay. Most if not all of the former NHLPA recognizes this, and goes back to the NHL with their tails between their legs, because their careers are going to be 5-10 years long anyways, and none of them care about committing to the ECHL long enough to build it into a legitimate financial challenge to the NHL. They want money.

(3) Year 3: You're probably done, actually. You probably don't need a year 3.

Yes, in fantasy land where generations of top talent all inexplicably decided to go play for the same poor league, maybe eventually that league would build up enough fan support to eclipse the NHL. In reality, the NHL is so much wealthier than any other league in the world that players who have a career to make pronto will always flock back to it within 2 years tops.

PensFanSince1989 11-15-2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pepty (Post 55801045)
I think the NHL had to get the word out that they are not close to any agreement on the financials. That seemed to be a story put out by the Union. For days we have been hearing from the media that the players and owners had come together and agreed on a 50/50 deal or were close to it , and scratching their heads about why the owners were holding up everything with their refusal to negotiate on the contractual issues.

The PA was setting the league up to take the fall when no deal was forthcoming,despite their denials that an agreement on the financials was even close.Maybe this time they got thier message across.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179601461.html

In an email to the Star Tribune, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."

I think they do have to get that message out, Canadian sports media isn't helping so far though.
Just watched SportsNet connected, and the top story was 'Bettman asks for moratorium' then the response by Steve Fehr, with no mention of that statement by Daly. The panel then went onto blast Bettman and the NHL for suggesting the 2 week break...

buggs 11-15-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Estrada (Post 55801095)
Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
NHLPA refuses to opt for 2-week "moratorium" on talks suggested by NHL. Not surprising.

Of course they did. But the Owners proposals are all transparent and with purpose. This 2 week moratorium says 'maybe missing another paycheck will slap some sense into you imbeciles'. Just like the first proposal illustrated the absurdity of a 43-57 split.

njdevil26 11-15-2012 10:55 PM

If they don't come right back from this two week break with a deal... I'm done. I don't want to sound like a selfish ass... but where are the Devils/Rangers/Islanders/Flyers after this hurricane? I think Lundqvist was the only player to do anything.

How about Devils fans and hockey fans paying hundreds of dollars for Kovalchuk's autograph donating money to the Lokomotiv fund... This is a perfect opportunity for the players of the teams here to show how they care for the fans... and they are nowhere to be found. I'll remember that.... I don't need to live paycheck to paycheck just to get tickets to watch the Devils.

JAX 11-15-2012 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Estrada (Post 55801095)
Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
NHLPA refuses to opt for 2-week "moratorium" on talks suggested by NHL. Not surprising.

Of course not, The PA has been trying hard for the NHL to accept their aug 15th proposal. 'the players just wanna play"

Grumpy Humphrey 11-15-2012 10:55 PM

So now that the PA has refused to not talk, they can get back to not talking

mikeda1940 11-15-2012 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haseoke39 (Post 55801113)
Alright, let me break down what would happen for you:

(1) Exactly what's happening now, but with 100% of NHLers rather than 30%. A handful go to Europe, a handful go to the AHL, a handful to the KHL. None of these leagues see a significant boost in revenue, because NHL fans - rather than following players they once watched to different time zones and teams they've never cared about - just give up on the game. The KHL, AHL, etc aren't suddenly able to charge more for tickets. Just like you didn't notice the Edmonton Oilers farm team blow up to NHL proportions just because their top kids are spending time there. That's year 1.

(2) Year 2: fans around the NHL who are loyal to their teams still have a TON more money to give to the game of hockey than any of these other leagues could make in their wet dreams, so NHL teams remain the top destination for the world's new talent. Almost every kid who was going to be drafted by an NHL team still wants to be drafted by an NHL team, because every executive knows it will take 3 years tops to restock the league with talent after the PA goes kaboom and so they're still willing to pay 500% of what anyone else in the world can pay. Most if not all of the former NHLPA recognizes this, and goes back to the NHL with their tails between their legs, because their careers are going to be 5-10 years long anyways, and none of them care about committing to the ECHL long enough to build it into a legitimate financial challenge to the NHL. They want money.

(3) Year 3: You're probably done, actually. You probably don't need a year 3.

Yes, in fantasy land where generations of top talent all inexplicably decided to go play for the same poor league, maybe eventually that league would build up enough fan support to eclipse the NHL. In reality, the NHL is so much wealthier than any other league in the world that players who have a career to make pronto will always flock back to it within 2 years tops.

No, don't change the parameters I set up. I said, all 700 sign with the ECHL and the NHL gets players 701-1400. I'm trying to determine who needs who more. Who will ultimately be more successful. Who will the fans come out to see first, the players or the logo.

If you are more interested in the logo, then the AHL has some very nice teams right now that have identical colors to their parent clubs and even have the actual logos on their shoulders. If those players give you the same excitement and bang for your ticket buck, then congratulations. This lockout should have no meaning for you whatsoever.

I'm suspecting, however, that you are waiting for this lockout to end so you can watch these players play. Not just so you can see your logo in action again.


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