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-   -   Scott Stevens vs Chris Pronger (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1283863)

SMantzas 11-16-2012 11:24 AM

Scott Stevens vs Chris Pronger
 
Assuming that Pronger's career is over, who was the better player?

Edit- ****. Could a mod add a poll

spiny norman 11-16-2012 11:43 AM

Added Poll

Ceremony 11-16-2012 12:18 PM

I take Pronger. He had better offense and his 06 playoffs is the best playoffs I've ever seen by a non-goalie.

I Hate Chris Butler 11-16-2012 01:08 PM

Pronger had the better peak, but taking everything into account I'd say Stevens because of just how long he was so dominant.

Stevens was better in the playoffs too ;)

Jerk Store 11-16-2012 01:10 PM

Can't vote, but for me it's Stevens. One of my all time faves.

bp spec 11-16-2012 01:24 PM

Chris Pronger

HockeyFan100 11-16-2012 01:27 PM

If I could vote it would be Pronger.

OzzyFan 11-16-2012 01:33 PM

Peak Pronger, Career Stevens.

MastuhNinks 11-16-2012 01:39 PM

Better player I have to go with Pronger. Stevens probably had the better career but I think Pronger was the better player. Seeing him on those Devils teams would've been a treat.

HockeyThoughts 11-16-2012 02:01 PM

Both are obviously tremendous talents, and two of the most dominating physical specimens to ever play in the NHL or the sport of hockey in general. However, while it is arguable that Stevens had both the higher individual offensive peak and higher individual defensive peak, where Pronger shines was in his ability to combine both and suffocate the opposition at both ends of the rink. Furthermore, while both were amazing playoff performers I don't beleive Stevens ever had a playoff campaign like 05-06 where Pronger posted one of the best playoff campaigns in the history of the NHL. He was both the leading scorer on the Edmonton Oilers who went to Game 7 of the SCF as a defenseman as well as the top defensive player in the entire NHL at the time.

What makes Pronger so intriguing is that has such a unique résumé. From an outsiders standpoint, you look at his résumé pre-lockout:
-2000 - Norris Trophy
-2000 - Hart Trophy
-2000 - 1st All Star Team
-1998 + 2004 - 2nd All Star Team
-2002 - Gold Medal

And one would assume Pronger played his best hockey pre-lockout. However, aside from his obvious outstanding Hart Trophy winning season, I believe post-lockout is where Pronger truly played his best hockey, and it is truly a shame that he was robbed of the Norris in the 5 dominating post-lockout regular seasons he posted and the Conn Smythe in the 3 dominating playoff runs he had during this time.

I love Scott Stevens, I really do, I grew up idolizing the guy. But there was never one season he was the undisputed top defenseman like Pronger. Whether that's attributable to tougher competition on a year by year basis, or his almost divine focus to the defensive side of the game -- I don't know, but I can say there were actually several seasons where one could confidently say Pronger was by far the best defenseman, and even best player in the game at that point.

That's why Pronger gets my vote.

Stansfield* 11-16-2012 02:06 PM

At their best, Pronger was the better player but Stevens had the better career. So IDK how to vote.

Ivan13 11-16-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceremony (Post 55810507)
I take Pronger. He had better offense and his 06 playoffs is the best playoffs I've ever seen by a non-goalie.

This depends on which version of Stevens you're talking about.

Mystlyfe 11-16-2012 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceremony (Post 55810507)
I take Pronger. He had better offense and his 06 playoffs is the best playoffs I've ever seen by a non-goalie.

Early in his career, the Capitals considered moving Stevens to wing because his offense was that good. He had five seasons of 60+ points (including once 72 and once 78) and two more that fell just shy (57 and 59). Pronger only hit 60 once, albeit in a lower scoring era and having seasons of 56 and 59 (in 66 games) points as well. Stevens morphed into a defense-only guy later in his career, but he had quite a run as an offensive defenseman.

AJMHABS 11-16-2012 02:57 PM

Pronger is the better player, but I voted Stevens because he had the better career.

pdd 11-16-2012 02:59 PM

Pronger.

Stevens was a dominant defensive defenseman for the last half of his career, and had a few big offensive years. Only once (1994) did he manage to post high offense while playing strong defense.

Pronger had comparable offense to most of Stevens' best offensive years, but was also dominant defensively in those seasons. 99-00, 00-01, and 05-06 are great examples.

pdd 11-16-2012 03:07 PM

Curios question...

Why do people think Stevens had the better career?

Pronger won the Norris and was constantly in the hunt for it from about his fourth or fifth season until the end. He won a Hart. He had a bunch of great playoff runs.

Pronger posted a better career PPG in both the regular season and playoffs than Stevens, and actually posted more playoff points (121 to 118) despite playing 60 fewer games (173 to 233).

Pronger had the better peak, better prime, and better career. Pronger was the second-best defenseman of his era. Stevens ranks #5 at best in his era.

pdd 11-16-2012 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystlyfe (Post 55815089)
Early in his career, the Capitals considered moving Stevens to wing because his offense was that good. He had five seasons of 60+ points (including once 72 and once 78) and two more that fell just shy (57 and 59). Pronger only hit 60 once, albeit in a lower scoring era and having seasons of 56 and 59 (in 66 games) points as well. Stevens morphed into a defense-only guy later in his career, but he had quite a run as an offensive defenseman.

Pronger also posted 47 in 51 games in 00-01. And during Stevens' run as an offensive defenseman, it's important to note that he wasn't the defensive monster we all remember from New Jersey. He was like a better version of Dion Phaneuf or Kevin Hatcher; defense was a secondary consideration.

Pronger has always played both sides of the puck very well, which is the major driving force that puts him above Stevens. Stevens did one, then the other. Pronger did both at the same time as well as Stevens did them separately.

Stansfield* 11-16-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 55815479)
Curios question...

Why do people think Stevens had the better career?

Pronger won the Norris and was constantly in the hunt for it from about his fourth or fifth season until the end. He won a Hart. He had a bunch of great playoff runs.

Pronger posted a better career PPG in both the regular season and playoffs than Stevens, and actually posted more playoff points (121 to 118) despite playing 60 fewer games (173 to 233).

Pronger had the better peak, better prime, and better career. Pronger was the second-best defenseman of his era. Stevens ranks #5 at best in his era.

Stevens lost the '94 Norris to a better season than Pronger ever had to face, IMO.

He won his Hart by 1 point over Jagr who played 3/4 of the season, color me unimpressed.

His season PPG is marginally higher over nearly 500 fewer games, big whoop.

Pre-lockout Pronger was a playoff choker and was known for taking terrible penalties that cost his team. At the same time Stevens was Captaining a modern dynasty.

Pronger had worse competition in his era, so no big surprise there he ranks higher relative to them. Which 5 do you have over Stevens BTW.

It's close to me, but Stevens player about 600 more games than Pronger which tips the scales.

IMO.
Peak- Pronger
Prime- Stevens
Career- Stevens

pdd 11-16-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan13 (Post 55814509)
This depends on which version of Stevens you're talking about.

Not really. Stevens' best seven-year stretch offensively yields an average of about 66 per 82. Pronger's best seven-year stretch brings 61 points. Stevens' 7 are from the end of the 80s into the early 90s, while Pronger's are the early 00's across the lockout.

Similar numbers, much lower scoring league? Pronger was better offensively. AINEC.

And Pronger was Stevens' equal defensively as well, WHILE putting up that kind of offense. The only defenseman who could match or beat Pronger's two-way game was Nicklas Lidstrom. And that's no slight to Pronger.

pld459666 11-16-2012 03:30 PM

Stevens was a better offensive defenceman when he played an offensive game.

He averaged 60 points a year from 84-85 thru 93-94

Not to mention over 170PIM's a year.

There's not one aspect of the game that Pronger does that is or was ever better than Stevens and that includes cheap shots.

Stevens in my opinion and it's not close.

Stansfield* 11-16-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 55816065)
Stevens was a better offensive defenceman when he played an offensive defensive game.

He averaged 60 points a year from 84-85 thru 93-94

Not to mention over 170PIM's a year.

There's not one aspect of the game that Pronger does that is or was ever better than Stevens and that includes cheap shots.

Stevens in my opinion and it's not close.

I'd say Pronger was definitely dirtier. I hated Stevens but we'll never see a player play a more physical clean game than he did in his NJ years.

pdd 11-16-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stansfield (Post 55815875)
Stevens lost the '94 Norris to a better season than Pronger ever had to face, IMO.

He won his Hart by 1 point over Jagr who played 3/4 of the season, color me unimpressed.

IMO, Pronger didn't deserve the Hart. Bure did. But Pronger did win it, and Stevens was never in consideration for the Hart.

Quote:

His season PPG is marginally higher over nearly 500 fewer games, big whoop.
Playing his offensive prime in a lower scoring era than Stevens' big offensive years.

Quote:

Pre-lockout Pronger was a playoff choker and was known for taking terrible penalties that cost his team. At the same time Stevens was Captaining a modern dynasty.
How did Stevens do in the postseason in the 1980s?

Quote:

Pronger had worse competition in his era, so no big surprise there he ranks higher relative to them. Which 5 do you have over Stevens BTW.
Bourque, Coffey, Chelios, and MacInnis. Leetch could also be argued ahead of Stevens.

Quote:

It's close to me, but Stevens player about 600 more games than Pronger which tips the scales.
So this is your all-time team, then?

Messier-Francis-Howe
Stevens-Chelios
Brodeur

pdd 11-16-2012 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stansfield (Post 55816185)
I'd say Pronger was definitely dirtier. I hated Stevens but we'll never see a player play a more physical clean game than he did in his NJ years.

The clean-ness of Stevens' game is overrated. He was definitely a dirty OB. Just because his hit on Lindros was clean and gets replayed on youtube a lot doesn't mean every hit was clean.

Stan Mikita won a few Lady Byngs. He was a dirty ******* in his early years.

pld459666 11-16-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stansfield (Post 55816185)
I'd say Pronger was definitely dirtier. I hated Stevens but we'll never see a player play a more physical clean game than he did in his NJ years.

agree to disagree.

Habs 4 Life 11-16-2012 03:42 PM

Close but Pronger


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