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-   -   Burke was so High on the Jays Trade, could he do the same? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1283909)

RogerRoeper* 11-16-2012 12:00 PM

Burke was so High on the Jays Trade, could he do the same?
 
I was listening to Burke yesterday on the radio, and he seemed so excited about the bold trade AA pulled off this week.

The Jays very significantly added to their payroll. While there's no cap in baseball, Burke are been very quiet in terms of going after the big names and handing out massive contracts. With the Leafs looking at a great cap situation going into next summer, could he finally be bold and go after the top UFA's? The Leafs have more than enough money to offer massive signing bonuses to the top UFA's to give them the best contract offers.

MastuhNinks 11-16-2012 12:10 PM

Of course he could if the deal is there and if he thinks it would make the team better, but I wouldn't think that the Blue Jays trade has any effect on the likelihood of a blockbuster trade involving the Leafs.

ACC1224 11-16-2012 12:12 PM

Trades like that can't happen in hockey. Too much salary from one side.

Eyedea 11-16-2012 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACC1224 (Post 55810367)
Trades like that can't happen in hockey. Too much salary from one side.

It doesn't necessarily have to do with a trade, but just acquiring top flight talent. With a few guys coming off the books next year, they have the cap space to either sign quality players or acquire them in a trade.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-16-2012 12:17 PM

Didn't Burke already make a major trade when he got Dion Phaneuf? Toronto still gave up 4 roster players and aquired 3 in return from Calgary, so by the NHL standards we know today with the salary cap that's a major trade.

RogerRoeper* 11-16-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyedea (Post 55810455)
It doesn't necessarily have to do with a trade, but just acquiring top flight talent. With a few guys coming off the books next year, they have the cap space to either sign quality players or acquire them in a trade.

Exactly. I didn't mean it would be a 12 player deal, just opening up the wallet more in terms of trying to sign the best players. There's really no excuse given their wealth and cap situation.

indigobuffalo 11-16-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 55810083)
I was listening to Burke yesterday on the radio, and he seemed so excited about the bold trade AA pulled off this week.

The Jays very significantly added to their payroll. While there's no cap in baseball, Burke are been very quiet in terms of going after the big names and handing out massive contracts. With the Leafs looking at a great cap situation going into next summer, could he finally be bold and go after the top UFA's? The Leafs have more than enough money to offer massive signing bonuses to the top UFA's to give them the best contract offers.

Since it's been established that the huge signing bonuses and massive contracts are based around cap circumvention and are generally very bad for the game of hockey, I doubt it very much.

That's without taking into account that the new CBA is being designed to put a stop to those types of contracts, and the NHL is also planning on hammering punishment to the teams that benefitted from those contracts.

Burke has steadfastly maintained a position that they are not contracts based around the original intentions of the salary cap and the now-expired CBA, and consequently has repeatedly stated he wants no part of them.

I'm purely speculating here, but there is no way he starts signing players to those types of deals, or whatever loop-hole based contracts the new CBA engenders.

That's not to say he won't go after key UFA players, but he won't engage them with unethical contracts. But he's made bids on stars every year. He made competitive offers on Rick Nash, he offered the highest value contract to Brad Richards. It's not like he sits pat on his rump but there are 31 other GMs out there and without a team that competes for the Cup, it doesn't matter how great the offer is. Nor does it matter who the GM is making the offer.

Until Burke digs himself out of the hole he was placed in, it will be a tough sell luring top UFAs. Period.

indigobuffalo 11-16-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 55810537)
Exactly. I didn't mean it would be a 12 player deal, just opening up the wallet more in terms of trying to sign the best players. There's really no excuse given their wealth and cap situation.

Burke offered Brad Richards the most money out of any other offer on the table. Brad Richards took less money to play with the Rangers because they were looking good to compete for the Cup and the Leafs weren't.

The Leafs weren't a playoff team when Burke took over, and he hasn't been able yet to make them a contender since taking over, which makes it extremely hard to lure in top UFAs.

Burke does, however, have a solid history of being able to bring in top level UFA talent when he IS governing a contender, and as soon as he gets the Leafs onto the plane, he'll look like a wizard with his ability to fetch top names.

RogerRoeper* 11-16-2012 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigobuffalo (Post 55810701)
Burke offered Brad Richards the most money out of any other offer on the table. Brad Richards took less money to play with the Rangers because they were looking good to compete for the Cup and the Leafs weren't.

The Leafs weren't a playoff team when Burke took over, and he hasn't been able yet to make them a contender since taking over, which makes it extremely hard to lure in top UFAs.

Burke does, however, have a solid history of being able to bring in top level UFA talent when he IS governing a contender, and as soon as he gets the Leafs onto the plane, he'll look like a wizard with his ability to fetch top names.

This is not true.

If you offer free agents the most money, they will come. Minnesota just signed the two biggest free agents.

ACC1224 11-16-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyedea (Post 55810455)
It doesn't necessarily have to do with a trade, but just acquiring top flight talent. With a few guys coming off the books next year, they have the cap space to either sign quality players or acquire them in a trade.

I always felt Burke was/would trying to make the team better, add talent. I don't think the Jays have any affect on this.

RogerRoeper* 11-16-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigobuffalo (Post 55810623)
Since it's been established that the huge signing bonuses and massive contracts are based around cap circumvention and are generally very bad for the game of hockey, I doubt it very much.

That's without taking into account that the new CBA is being designed to put a stop to those types of contracts, and the NHL is also planning on hammering punishment to the teams that benefitted from those contracts.

Burke has steadfastly maintained a position that they are not contracts based around the original intentions of the salary cap and the now-expired CBA, and consequently has repeatedly stated he wants no part of them.

I'm purely speculating here, but there is no way he starts signing players to those types of deals, or whatever loop-hole based contracts the new CBA engenders.

That's not to say he won't go after key UFA players, but he won't engage them with unethical contracts. But he's made bids on stars every year. He made competitive offers on Rick Nash, he offered the highest value contract to Brad Richards. It's not like he sits pat on his rump but there are 31 other GMs out there and without a team that competes for the Cup, it doesn't matter how great the offer is. Nor does it matter who the GM is making the offer.

Until Burke digs himself out of the hole he was placed in, it will be a tough sell luring top UFAs. Period.

Yet he's about to get Luongo, right.

ACC1224 11-16-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 55810903)
This is not true.

If you offer free agents the most money, they will come. Minnesota just signed the two biggest free agents.

Did they actually offer the most?

RogerRoeper* 11-16-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACC1224 (Post 55811017)
Did they actually offer the most?

Suter/Parise did not give Minnesota any hometown discount at all. They did get the best deal. (And that's including the guanteed signing bonuses they're getting this year for not playing).

And the Rangers deal to Richards was at least 3 or 4 years longer than the Burke offer.

ACC1224 11-16-2012 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 55811071)
Suter/Parise did not give Minnesota any hometown discount at all. They did get the best deal. (And that's including the guanteed signing bonuses they're getting this year for not playing).

And the Rangers deal to Richards was at least 3 or 4 years longer than the Burke offer.

I realize they signed for huge money but is it a fact that it was the biggest offer or an assumption?

I'm just curious, I don't recall hearing any other offers.

RogerRoeper* 11-16-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACC1224 (Post 55811151)
I realize they signed for huge money but is it a fact that it was the biggest offer or an assumption?

I'm just curious, I don't recall hearing any other offers.

It's my understanding it was the most. Certainly by far the most for both to play together.

There's perception they took less to play at home. Look at that deal and the signing bonuses, they did not give Minnesota any discount whatsoever.

If Burke meets Getzzlaf and Perry on July 1st in a private jet with identical 120 million offers with massive signing bonusses, you think they laugh at him because it's the Leafs? Of course not. Their agents will be on cloud 9.

Burke is not going after the top free agents. There's no attempt. Now that the cap room is there, it's time to go for it. (And if they miss the season, they'll likely draft a franchise C to get with the franchise D they just drafted.)

Bravid Nonahan 11-16-2012 12:54 PM

If anyone would or could do it, it would be Burke.

ACC1224 11-16-2012 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 55811233)
It's my understanding it was the most. Certainly by far the most for both to play together.

There's perception they took less to play at home. Look at that deal and the signing bonuses, they did not give Minnesota any discount whatsoever.

If Burke meets Getzzlaf and Perry on July 1st in a private jet with identical 120 million offers with massive signing bonusses, you think they laugh at him because it's the Leafs? Of course not. Their agents will be on cloud 9.

Burke is not going after the top free agents. There's no attempt. Now that the cap room is there, it's time to go for it. (And if they miss the season, they'll likely draft a franchise C to get with the franchise D they just drafted.)

I agree with that. If Perry and Getzlaf make it to UFA they should be offered whatever it takes.

leugangen 11-16-2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigobuffalo (Post 55810701)
Burke offered Brad Richards the most money out of any other offer on the table. Brad Richards took less money to play with the Rangers because they were looking good to compete for the Cup and the Leafs weren't.

The Leafs weren't a playoff team when Burke took over, and he hasn't been able yet to make them a contender since taking over, which makes it extremely hard to lure in top UFAs.

Burke does, however, have a solid history of being able to bring in top level UFA talent when he IS governing a contender, and as soon as he gets the Leafs onto the plane, he'll look like a wizard with his ability to fetch top names.

He offered Richards the highest average salary, but not the most money: New York was willing to frontload the deal.

Federko 11-16-2012 02:00 PM

AA and the Jays just re-confirmed that you gotta spend money to win. Not only that - you gotta work with players on length/term of contract. Some dumb self-imposed won't sign anyone if they want 5, 6 , years won't get those top flight players sign with your club. Burke needs to stop spinning his wheels and do something when the time is right... There is absolutely no excuse for the current state of our goaltending. He let Toskala play when he knew he wasen't the guy.... he took a chance on Reimer based on 20 games from a previous season--where no team really had any scouting on him.... That's the equivalent to the Jays going with the same pitching staff they had last year. It doesn't work - FIX IT. Took AA one year.... what's Burke's excuse now? Time to man up Burkie - we all wanna see you succeed but if you spin your wheels for another year ...see ya later.

Eyedea 11-16-2012 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigobuffalo (Post 55810701)
Burke offered Brad Richards the most money out of any other offer on the table.

I could most certainly be wrong, but I remember hearing something about the Flames offering big bucks to Richards. Not sure if they offered the most AAV or Toronto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACC1224 (Post 55810941)
I always felt Burke was/would trying to make the team better, add talent. I don't think the Jays have any affect on this.

No doubt I see it too, but it's more of making that big splash to provoke fear from those other teams in the division. Like say, signing a Getzlaf or a Perry.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-16-2012 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaive (Post 55813511)
AA and the Jays just re-confirmed that you gotta spend money to win. Not only that - you gotta work with players on length/term of contract. Some dumb self-imposed won't sign anyone if they want 5, 6 , years won't get those top flight players sign with your club. Burke needs to stop spinning his wheels and do something when the time is right... There is absolutely no excuse for the current state of our goaltending. He let Toskala play when he knew he wasen't the guy.... he took a chance on Reimer based on 20 games from a previous season--where no team really had any scouting on him.... That's the equivalent to the Jays going with the same pitching staff they had last year. It doesn't work - FIX IT. Took AA one year.... what's Burke's excuse now? Time to man up Burkie - we all wanna see you succeed but if you spin your wheels for another year ...see ya later.

The one difference is in MLB they don't have a salary cap and in the NHL Brian Burke wants to make UFA signings that make sense for the future because he can't spend whatever he wants.

The Blue Devil 11-16-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 55811233)
It's my understanding it was the most. Certainly by far the most for both to play together.

There's perception they took less to play at home. Look at that deal and the signing bonuses, they did not give Minnesota any discount whatsoever.

If Burke meets Getzzlaf and Perry on July 1st in a private jet with identical 120 million offers with massive signing bonusses, you think they laugh at him because it's the Leafs? Of course not. Their agents will be on cloud 9.

Burke is not going after the top free agents. There's no attempt. Now that the cap room is there, it's time to go for it. (And if they miss the season, they'll likely draft a franchise C to get with the franchise D they just drafted.)

Of course he is, he's just not dumb enough to give 26+ year olds a 14 year contract.

Sokil 11-16-2012 03:16 PM

it's against Burke's "code" to get high paid talent

it's also against his code to keep draft picks, so leafs fans, dont get your hopes up

Sokil 11-16-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Blue Devil (Post 55815461)
Of course he is, he's just not dumb enough to give 26+ year olds a 14 year contract.

dumb because it'll make the team better?

The Blue Devil 11-16-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaive (Post 55813511)
AA and the Jays just re-confirmed that you gotta spend money to win. Not only that - you gotta work with players on length/term of contract. Some dumb self-imposed won't sign anyone if they want 5, 6 , years won't get those top flight players sign with your club. Burke needs to stop spinning his wheels and do something when the time is right... There is absolutely no excuse for the current state of our goaltending. He let Toskala play when he knew he wasen't the guy.... he took a chance on Reimer based on 20 games from a previous season--where no team really had any scouting on him.... That's the equivalent to the Jays going with the same pitching staff they had last year. It doesn't work - FIX IT. Took AA one year.... what's Burke's excuse now? Time to man up Burkie - we all wanna see you succeed but if you spin your wheels for another year ...see ya later.

One year to what?


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