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-   -   2012 OHL RE-Draft Top 10 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1284425)

mapleleaf979 11-17-2012 11:58 AM

2012 OHL RE-Draft Top 10
 
1. MCdavid
2. MCkeown
3. S.Watson
4. Dal Colle
5. B.Clarke
6. Hosang
7. Fabbri
8. S.Bennett
9. J.McCann
10. Lindo

*D.Bourne is also doing well and I considered him in the at the #10 spot.

*Salituro has 15 points in 21 games. 2 goals though thats why I left him off my top 10. Salituro is not doing what he is known for right now.

* Id love to see other lists and thoughts.

* DO i think Peterborough would take Cornel if they could do the draft again? No. Hargrave, Petti, Addison have been disappointing as well.

brahmabull 11-18-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 (Post 55833083)
Hargrave, Petti, Addison have been disappointing as well.

So you pull up rookie scoring stats and because Petti isn't top 20 he's a disappointment, any fan who actually watches this kid play will tell you he is far from disappointing. Second best plus minus on the team plays both ends of the ice great skating competes every night, this kid is the real deal and given an expanded roll will produce well. The kid is a 16 year old playing a limited roll on a veteran offensively challenged team, with more skilled line mates and more PP time this kid would have a lot more points.

Ottomatic 11-18-2012 09:37 AM

Spits would still take Ho-Sang at #5.

ExtremeHockeyFan 11-18-2012 09:40 AM

Can't just base everything off stats 2 months into the season, mapleleaf979.

bidzey 11-18-2012 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahmabull (Post 55851981)
So you pull up rookie scoring stats and because Petti isn't top 20 he's a disappointment, any fan who actually watches this kid play will tell you he is far from disappointing. Second best plus minus on the team plays both ends of the ice great skating competes every night, this kid is the real deal and given an expanded roll will produce well. The kid is a 16 year old playing a limited roll on a veteran offensively challenged team, with more skilled line mates and more PP time this kid would have a lot more points.

I agree that stats are not everything, especially if you compare 2 players where 1 is playing with a power house, and the other is playing on a team that is having lots of difficulties. I also noticed this year so far that the + - stats in this league are very inaccurate. I noticed a few mistakes involving OS players along the way so I kept an eye out looking for it. I'm not going into details for personal reasons but let me tell you, if the mistakes I see on 1 team exists league wide, the + - stats are a pure joke. Not the significance of the stat, but the way that the league moderates it. You can even advise them with proof and they still don't correct them.

mapleleaf979 11-18-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahmabull (Post 55851981)
So you pull up rookie scoring stats and because Petti isn't top 20 he's a disappointment, any fan who actually watches this kid play will tell you he is far from disappointing. Second best plus minus on the team plays both ends of the ice great skating competes every night, this kid is the real deal and given an expanded roll will produce well. The kid is a 16 year old playing a limited roll on a veteran offensively challenged team, with more skilled line mates and more PP time this kid would have a lot more points.

I like niki Petti. If u think 4 points is enough because he plays 200 feet of ice than thats cool. Petti is an offensive player who should create offense. He is not doing it at all. Im guessing u think the same of Cornel. Its not based on stats. Ive watched all the players above and thats my view.

mapleleaf979 11-18-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan (Post 55852183)
Can't just base everything off stats 2 months into the season, mapleleaf979.

Make your own top 10 list, than we will talk. Id like to see your list, although i bet u wont make one.

bidzey 11-18-2012 11:42 AM

I'm not going to make a list but I would have Jacob Middleton in the list. I only seen him play 6 games and he only played 6 because he's out with lower body injury, but you can tell he's going to be really good. He just made under 17 and that's not surprising at all. Actually if I was making a list I would probably just grab the top 10 player on team Ontario, because is that not what the CHL just did? Decide who's the best? Sure I could give my own, but I'd have to had watched all players and that's not possible for me.

NHL Fanatic 11-18-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 (Post 55853481)
I like niki Petti. If u think 4 points is enough because he plays 200 feet of ice than thats cool. Petti is an offensive player who should create offense. He is not doing it at all. Im guessing u think the same of Cornel. Its not based on stats. Ive watched all the players above and thats my view.

Rookies can't automatically adjust to the OHL 2 months into the season playing a limited role. Not everyone can be McDavid. In order to thrive a player needs opportunities. Stats are not everything, they are useless when projecting a player's NHL potential and that's the ultimate goal for these kids. People don't understand how significant the jump is from minor midget to the OHL. I've seen kids score 50-60+ goals in MM and not be able to crack 10 in the OHL. These teams watch video, they know certain players tendencies and systems. You have to take everything into account. I'd like to see this thread after the NHL draft to see how much it changes.

bidzey 11-18-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHL Fanatic (Post 55853781)
You have to take everything into account.

that's right, I see Lindo listed in 10th. I'm not disputing his presence on the list at all, he belongs there, but he fell into a very favorable scenario. He's playing on a stacked team for 1 thing. He as no one competing for his position because OS are short on LW in the absence of Gaverus and Maiden. (They even pulled up Kyle Hope as a forward). Lindo is already on the 2nd PP line and well deserved. My point is... hand all the rookies the same scenario and the list will look totally different.

brahmabull 11-18-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 (Post 55853481)
I like niki Petti. If u think 4 points is enough because he plays 200 feet of ice than thats cool. Petti is an offensive player who should create offense. He is not doing it at all. Im guessing u think the same of Cornel. Its not based on stats. Ive watched all the players above and thats my view.

I don't know enough about Cornel or any of the others to form an accurate assesement of who is good and who is dissapointing yet, I am not sure how anyone can.

mapleleaf979 11-18-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHL Fanatic (Post 55853781)
Rookies can't automatically adjust to the OHL 2 months into the season playing a limited role. Not everyone can be McDavid. In order to thrive a player needs opportunities. Stats are not everything, they are useless when projecting a player's NHL potential and that's the ultimate goal for these kids. People don't understand how significant the jump is from minor midget to the OHL. I've seen kids score 50-60+ goals in MM and not be able to crack 10 in the OHL. These teams watch video, they know certain players tendencies and systems. You have to take everything into account. I'd like to see this thread after the NHL draft to see how much it changes.

I think thats well said. Aside from Mcdavid quite a few others seem very much at ease and extremely comfortable out there. One is Robby FAbbri and even Kyle Pettit on the Otters not in the first round looks very promising. Spencer Watson and Sam Bennett's adjustment was seamless. Hosang is doing well. Petti and Cornel played out side of the GTHL. These 2 seem over-rated at this point. Judged against a weaker competition..will that change? Possibly. These 2 players played against weaker competition all season long minus a few tournaments. Im aware Petti was a marlboro in the past. At the same time saying Niki Petti is under-acheiving is not a stretch in my opinion. Its easy to say they would flourish on a weaker team. If u arent producing on any team u would be bumped up the depth chart. Bellville needs Offense in a huge way as well. They have 52 goals for and 54 against. Long term that does not bode well. I know there are tied for 4th in there conference with 3 other teams, but if that GA vs GF doesnt swing into the positive territory it will be tough to maintain that seed.

OHLFan8771 11-18-2012 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 (Post 55856825)
I think thats well said. Aside from Mcdavid quite a few others seem very much at ease and extremely comfortable out there. One is Robby FAbbri and even Kyle Pettit on the Otters not in the first round looks very promising. Spencer Watson and Sam Bennett's adjustment was seamless. Hosang is doing well. Petti and Cornel played out side of the GTHL. These 2 seem over-rated at this point. Judged against a weaker competition..will that change? Possibly. These 2 players played against weaker competition all season long minus a few tournaments. Im aware Petti was a marlboro in the past. At the same time saying Niki Petti is under-acheiving is not a stretch in my opinion. Its easy to say they would flourish on a weaker team. If u arent producing on any team u would be bumped up the depth chart. Bellville needs Offense in a huge way as well. They have 52 goals for and 54 against. Long term that does not bode well. I know there are tied for 4th in there conference with 3 other teams, but if that GA vs GF doesnt swing into the positive territory it will be tough to maintain that seed.

I agree with what you said about Pettit. He does not get a whole lot of ice time but he looks like he has the ability to be one of the best defensive forwards in the league in a year or two. He got a few more shifts this weekend and I was impressed with his play.

mapleleaf979 11-18-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OHLFan8771 (Post 55857923)
I agree with what you said about Pettit. He does not get a whole lot of ice time but he looks like he has the ability to be one of the best defensive forwards in the league in a year or two. He got a few more shifts this weekend and I was impressed with his play.

Yep and finally he is getting some PK time. He was one of, if not the best PK man in Ontario last year. His 4 man box skills were unreal. Ive heard the name Kris Draper used when referring to Pettit's Pk and forechecking skills.

krazy kanuck 11-18-2012 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 (Post 55859929)
Yep and finally he is getting some PK time. He was one of, if not the best PK man in Ontario last year. His 4 man box skills were unreal. Ive heard the name Kris Draper used when referring to Pettit's Pk and forechecking skills.

Draper? So? Everyone who has ever watched OHL hockey knows that the standard to be measured against for PK proficiency is Tyler Carroll. :nod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WedvOdw-eG8

krazy kanuck 11-18-2012 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHL Fanatic (Post 55853781)
Rookies can't automatically adjust to the OHL 2 months into the season playing a limited role. Not everyone can be McDavid. In order to thrive a player needs opportunities. Stats are not everything, they are useless when projecting a player's NHL potential and that's the ultimate goal for these kids.

Very well said. It's very, very early to be having this conversation at this point. Players need time to acclimatize to the league, not to mention role, icetime, and linemates are big factors in offensive production. Kujawinski and Strome are recent examples of players who were highly thought of coming into the draft, didn't necessarily put up a lot of points with the team that drafted them due to opportunity, and then subsequently proved they were as advertised.

Skip Wiley 11-19-2012 08:24 AM

RE-Draft is probably the wrong title for this thread. The needs of the teams are not even considered. If it it called "Best adjusted to the OHL and the Team Circumstances - Top 10" then yes I can see the points made.

Luvtowatch 11-19-2012 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brahmabull (Post 55851981)
So you pull up rookie scoring stats and because Petti isn't top 20 he's a disappointment, any fan who actually watches this kid play will tell you he is far from disappointing. Second best plus minus on the team plays both ends of the ice great skating competes every night, this kid is the real deal and given an expanded roll will produce well. The kid is a 16 year old playing a limited roll on a veteran offensively challenged team, with more skilled line mates and more PP time this kid would have a lot more points.

I think he is playing well but I don't believe it is a limited role. He is getting lots of icetime. The team is offensively challenged and is carried on the shoulders of Malcolm Subban. Don't like the job George is doing.

AK87 11-21-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapleleaf979 (Post 55833083)
1. MCdavid
2. MCkeown
3. S.Watson
4. Dal Colle
5. B.Clarke
6. Hosang
7. Fabbri
8. S.Bennett
9. J.McCann
10. Lindo

*D.Bourne is also doing well and I considered him in the at the #10 spot.

*Salituro has 15 points in 21 games. 2 goals though thats why I left him off my top 10. Salituro is not doing what he is known for right now.

* Id love to see other lists and thoughts.

* DO i think Peterborough would take Cornel if they could do the draft again? No. Hargrave, Petti, Addison have been disappointing as well.

Its nice to see 3 of the kids in the top ten are on the Frontenacs. The future is starting to look bright for us after so many years of dissapointment. Cant wait for the next couple years.

dean youngblood82 11-21-2012 10:46 PM

I just want to shake my head at this thread. We're 20 games into their OHL careers and already doing a re-draft? This goes against everything about developing a prospect.

Sigh

Where do you think Kujawinski would be if we did a 2011 OHL redraft last year at this time.

Way too premature. Different players require differing adjustments of development. Check back next year at this time to do the redraft.

sbrug 11-21-2012 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean youngblood82 (Post 55953039)
I just want to shake my head at this thread. We're 20 games into their OHL careers and already doing a re-draft? This goes against everything about developing a prospect.

Sigh

Where do you think Kujawinski would be if we did a 2011 OHL redraft last year at this time.

Way too premature. Different players require differing adjustments of development. Check back next year at this time to do the redraft.

Agreed. This thread was an abortion from the start. Christ, things change in development even in their twenties. See Rich Peverley, Joel Ward, etc.

RyanHPscout 11-22-2012 02:52 AM

Some guys slow down through the grind of an OHL schedule, and some emerge from the World U17. I think we need to see a full season before we can speak too negatively about anyone's performance. They made the OHL at 16 which is an accomplisment in it's own. A lot of rookies have big second halfs, so I think it's only fair to give them a full season before we start judging them too harshly.

krazy kanuck 11-22-2012 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK87 (Post 55941209)
Its nice to see 3 of the kids in the top ten are on the Frontenacs. The future is starting to look bright for us after so many years of dissapointment. Cant wait for the next couple years.

Worry not, if history is an indication of the future, the Fronts will find a way to mess it up.

zaluty 11-22-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazy kanuck (Post 55956945)
Worry not, if history is an indication of the future, the Fronts will find a way to mess it up.

Don't forget though the history of this regime is only 3 yrs.

OSA 11-22-2012 02:04 PM

1st round OHL draft picks are generally expected to have some positive impact on their team IMO.
While doing a "re-draft" might be a little over the top, after 1/3 of the season, I don't see any reason why you can't critique the performance and impact a rookie has had.

If we're so quick to praise the performance of Connor McDavid, Spencer Watson, Michael Dal Colle etc after 1/3 of the season, why can't we be a little critical of Brett Hargrave, Eric Cornel or Jeremiah Addison after the same period of time.

And the Ryan Kujawinski example is a red herring. He got next to no playing time in Sarnia up until the trade last year, so naturally his numbers would be down. Most of the players mentioned that have "under-performed" have gotten plenty of ice time.


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