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-   -   Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1286113)

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 12:40 PM

Which trade was worse, Kessel to TOR or Carter to CLB?
 
When it comes to recent trades a lot of people like to say one of the worst ones was the Phil Kessel trade to Toronto based on what Boston ended up getting. However I'm wondering is that trade actually worse then Jeff Carter to Columbus trade?

We all know Boston traded Phil Kessel to Toronto for a 2010 1st round pick, (Tyler Seguin) 2010 2nd round pick (Jared Knight) and a 2011 1st round pick (Dougie Hamilton). However from the Maple Leafs side no one can doubt Kessel hasn't played great because his points have gone up each of his first three years in Toronto.

However Columbus aquired Jeff Carter from Philadelphia for a 2011 1st round pick (Sean Couturier) 2011 3rd round pick (Nick Cousins) and Jakub Voracek. Plus it was basically known that Carter was not happy with the trade and eventually during the 2011-2012 season he was then traded to Los Angeles and only played 39 games for Columbus.

So based on all of that which trade do you think was worse?

topchowda 11-19-2012 12:49 PM

Kessel by a good margin. CLB mitigated some of the damages when they traded him to LA.

Ofcourse noone could have predicted TML lost out on Seguin and Hamiliton, the same argument can be made about Courtier

Seguin>Coutier
Hamilton>> Voracek
knight=cousins? not to familiar

Of course Kessel is better than Carter, but what they have up to get him is by far more than what it took to get Carter

Vankiller Whale 11-19-2012 12:49 PM

It depends on who Columbus picks with LA's 1st.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 55879093)
It depends on who Columbus picks with LA's 1st.

Chances are it will be between 20th-30th overall, so it won't be as high profile.

However forgetting what Columbus got for Carter can we just focus on the two trades I mentioned.

Crisp Breakout 11-19-2012 12:58 PM

I don't think this will even be a close call in a few years.

topchowda 11-19-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55879153)
Chances are it will be between 20th-30th overall, so it won't be as high profile.

However forgetting what Columbus got for Carter can we just focus on the two trades I mentioned.

Isnt that sort of relevant to the trade tho, CBJ getting peices for Carter. Maybe its not asked in the OP but say Kessel was traded for Getzlaf and Fowler then TML would say they lost Seguin and Hamilton for Getzlaf and Fowler

StringerBell 11-19-2012 01:02 PM

Carter to Columbus. If they did not make that trade but still traded Nash for depth, assuming (unrealistically, sure) that everything else was constant, their lineup today would be pretty nice.

Prospal-Johanson-Voracek
Dubinsky-Brassard-Umberger
Foligno-Anisimov-Atkinson
Mackenzie-Couturier-Dorsett

Murray-Wiz
Tin-Tin
Moore-Acouin
Savard

Just need a goalie and that`s a playoff team.

Tim Vezina Thomas 11-19-2012 01:05 PM

Depends really. Leafs got a great player, but the Bruins got two cornerstones of their future in the deal. One is already a 20 year old 67 point scorer, and one of if not the best D prospect in the game. Plus I'm very confident Knight will be a solid bottom six contributor (dont see him being any more than that tho).

Columbus ultimately traded Voracek, Courtier and a 3rd for Jack Johnson and a 1st, which is slightly in the Flyers favor IMO.

I dunno, I think both the Blue Jackets and Leafs would have been better off holding onto their picks, so I'm gonna say not sure.

Pay Carl 11-19-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55879153)
Chances are it will be between 20th-30th overall, so it won't be as high profile.

However forgetting what Columbus got for Carter can we just focus on the two trades I mentioned.

not necessarily if there is a lockout, maybe the hockey Gods will spare Columbus

oilersfan11 11-19-2012 01:10 PM

Toronto ,AINEC!





Kessel

for

Two franchise players


Yikes!

StringerBell 11-19-2012 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilersfan11 (Post 55879537)
Toronto ,AINEC!





Kessel

for

Two franchise players


Yikes!

Is Dougie Hamilton already a franchise player?

Benny FTW 11-19-2012 01:24 PM

Seguin > kessel
Seguin, Hamilton, Knight >> Kessel

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilersfan11 (Post 55879537)
Toronto ,AINEC!





Kessel

for

Two franchise players


Yikes!

Since Dougie Hamilton hasn't played 1 NHL game isn't it early to call him a franchise player? Top prospect and best Defensman not play yet in the NHL is fine. However saying Hamilton is a franchise player is pushing it and yet others say Leafs fans overhype our prospects.

Kyle Doobas* 11-19-2012 01:26 PM

Yes! Another 34-page debate about the Kessel trade!

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wKetch22 (Post 55879507)
not necessarily if there is a lockout, maybe the hockey Gods will spare Columbus

The NHL would then look at the Kings record from the 2011-2012 season if the lockout effects the 2013 Draft. Since the Kings won the Stanley Cup that year chances are it would give Columbus the 30th overall pick in the 2013 Draft.

During the 2005 Draft Lottery Tampa Bay was given the 30th pick overall coming off their 2004 Stanley Cup.

TheJuxtaposer 11-19-2012 01:46 PM

Personally, I think it was the Carter trade. Kessel is at least an elite player. Carter is not. Man, if Columbus hadn't made the Carter trade they could have a future 1-2 center punch of Johansen and Couturier, and then that awesome young d-corps of Murray, Erixon, Nikitin, Savard, Moore, etc.

Atkinson-Johansen-Voracek
Dubinsky-Couturier-Anisimov
Foligno-Brassard-Umberger
4th line

Murray-Erixon
Tyutin-Nikitin
Wiz-one of the other kids

And that's a nice young group of players.

I Hate Chris Butler 11-19-2012 01:56 PM

Couturier is already a contributing player on the Flyers and is CRUCIAL to their special teams; I'd go as far as to say he'd be the #1 centre in Columbus right now. Voracek is Voracek.

Columbus doesn't even have Carter any more, and instead they have Jack Johnson when they already signed one physical, offensive defenseman in Wisniewski.

EDIT: LOL @ the Kessel trade having the most votes. Only one player in that trade has made the NHL for Boston, and Kessel is the best player in the trade AINEC.

Pay Carl 11-19-2012 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55880177)
The NHL would then look at the Kings record from the 2011-2012 season if the lockout effects the 2013 Draft. Since the Kings won the Stanley Cup that year chances are it would give Columbus the 30th overall pick in the 2013 Draft.

During the 2005 Draft Lottery Tampa Bay was given the 30th pick overall coming off their 2004 Stanley Cup.

I dont think so

Pretty sure Kings could een have their pick go first overall since if its a full lockout supposedly every team can go first overall

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wKetch22 (Post 55880433)
I dont think so

Pretty sure Kings could een have their pick go first overall since if its a full lockout supposedly every team can go first overall

The odds of that happening is very slim because they would still go by the Kings record and not the Blue Jackets.

PayItForward 11-19-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55880177)
The NHL would then look at the Kings record from the 2011-2012 season if the lockout effects the 2013 Draft. Since the Kings won the Stanley Cup that year chances are it would give Columbus the 30th overall pick in the 2013 Draft.

During the 2005 Draft Lottery Tampa Bay was given the 30th pick overall coming off their 2004 Stanley Cup.

Unless you believe in conspiracies, the NHL didn't give Tampa Bay the 30th pick, that's just where their ball wound up being chosen. The Kings pick could be anywhere from 1st to 30th if there's a lottery. The only thing the NHL controls are how many balls each team has.

They don't go by record, they go by playoff appearances (not Stanley Cups) and 1st overall picks.

The Kings would have just as good of a chance to win the lottery as the Oilers.

Pay Carl 11-19-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55880463)
The odds of that happening is very slim because they would still go by the Kings record and not the Blue Jackets.

Unless im mistaken the Kings would have the same chance as a lot of teams ie: Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Pitts, etc

I dont remember who exactly has how many chances, but some teams like Toronto and Columbus have the best chances with 3 balls in the lottery, where as Kings, Bruins, etc only get 1

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayItForward (Post 55880547)
Unless you believe in conspiracies, the NHL didn't give Tampa Bay the 30th pick, that's just where their ball wound up being chosen. The Kings pick could be anywhere from 1st to 30th if there's a lottery. The only thing the NHL controls are how many balls each team has.

They don't go by record, they go by playoff appearances (not Stanley Cups) and 1st overall picks.

The Kings would have just as good of a chance to win the lottery as the Oilers.

The Kings would only get 1 ball. If it's based on recent Playoff apperances the Kings made them in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Assuming they use the same rules as the 2005 Draft Lottery and the NHL doesn't have anything else to go on.

Hammer Time 11-19-2012 02:05 PM

In Kessel the Leafs at least got a point-per-game player.

In Carter the Blue Jackets got an unhappy player who was gone within 4 months.

So essentially the Jackets dropped Voracek and Couturier for Jack Johnson. That has to be worse.

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-19-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wKetch22 (Post 55880579)
Unless im mistaken the Kings would have the same chance as a lot of teams ie: Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Pitts, etc

I dont remember who exactly has how many chances, but some teams like Toronto and Columbus have the best chances with 3 balls in the lottery, where as Kings, Bruins, etc only get 1

Yes that is correct.

PayItForward 11-19-2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55880641)
The Kings would only get 1 ball. If it's based on recent Playoff games the Kings made them in 2010, 2011 and 2012. Assuming they use the same rules as the 2005 Draft Lottery and the NHL doesn't have anything else to go on.

... that's what I said? The Kings would have 1 ball but that ball could be chosen at any time. It could be first, it could be last, it could anywhere in between.

And Edmonton would have 1 ball due to their 3 consecutive 1st overalls, if that's what your referring to.

The team with the best chance to be 1st overall is actually Columbus. They'll technically have 5 balls, 3 of their own, New York Ranger's ball and LA's ball.


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