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-   -   More powerplay stuff ... the way other teams did it. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=12875)

igor* 09-20-2003 12:12 PM

More powerplay stuff ... the way other teams did it.
 
Just looking at how the coaching staffs for other teams see this whole "forward on the point during the power play" issue.

Obviously they are all smart guys. And there is a trmendous amount of difference in philosophy. From Anaheim, who used an extra forward most of the time ... to New Jersey, who NEVER did (in fact Burns actually used an extra defenseman at least once :rolly: , which buggered up my algorithm the first time I ran it. Fo ya think maybe Pat has control issues? :lol: )

The percentage of powerplay time that the team used 4 forwards is in BLUE.

The net powerplay percentage is in RED. (net PP% ... i.e. to be fair, I subtracted the short-handed goals-against from the PP goal totals in calculating this %)

How they fared.

ANA 83% 14.7%
PIT 78% 15.6%
WSH 76% 16.0%
T.B 76% 16.6%
MIN 74% 12.8%

CBJ 67% 15.1%
BOS 66% 14.8%
DET 65% 22.6%
ATL 65% 13.5%
STL 57% 18.7%

CHI 51% 10.1%
EDM 47% 12.4%
OTT 46% 19.2%
BUF 38% 11.3%
CGY 36% 9.5%

FLA 35% 11.5%
CAR 35% 11.7%
PHX 32% 11.4%
VAN 28% 18.4%
PHI 21% 11.9%

DAL 14% 17.1%
COL 11% 17.1%
NYI 10% 13.8%
NYR 8% 13.9%
MTL 7% 12.1%

S.J 5% 15.5%
TOR 1% 15.6%
NSH 0% 12.0%
L.A 0% 13.6%
N.J 0% 10.6%


Any thoughts?

Lowetide 09-20-2003 12:34 PM

Most of that Oilers total probably came from the York experimentearly on. I love York's game, but I seem to recall he stated that it was his first attempt at pp quarterback. He was not good at it.

Hemsky played left point for the Hull team in the Q some, I saw a couple of Sportsnet games where he seemed pretty comfortable.

NJ's talented D likely had something to do with their number. They had alot of puck movers back there last season.

thome_26 09-20-2003 12:40 PM

Ya, with Rafalski, Neidermayer, and Tverdovsky (who's value was wasted by my hero Burns) Why not put three guys out there! Those three are all EXCEPTIONAL skaters and GREAT puck movers.

igor* 09-20-2003 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thome_26
Ya, with Rafalski, Neidermayer, and Tverdovsky (who's value was wasted by my hero Burns) Why not put three guys out there! Those three are all EXCEPTIONAL skaters and GREAT puck movers.

Perhaps that what Burns thinks. And he ended up with the worst powerplay in the league as a consequence.

Burns teams never had good powerplays though. At least not relative to the talent. The same can be said for most of the defense-first coaches out there. With the notable exceptions of Lemaire and Martin ... who out of the blue shifted philosophy a lot last year.

igor* 09-20-2003 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowetide
Most of that Oilers total probably came from the York experimentearly on. I love York's game, but I seem to recall he stated that it was his first attempt at pp quarterback. He was not good at it.
...

I think you're wrong, Lowetide. And the results speak loudly.

I had thought the same thing inutitively. Somehow a couple brutal defensive plays by York while playing the point really stuck in my head. And coloured my opinion. Incorrectly as it turns out.

Then I was flipping through some stats and noticed of the Oilers and noticed that this team was far more likely to score when Marchant or York were on the powerplay. Which didn't make much sense, since clearly Comrie and Carter, maybe even Brewer, have better powerplay skills.

Break it down further and you realize it is because those were the two forwards who played the point. And the team as a whole just did a lot better on the powerplay when they used four forwards.

Watch a few powerplays after that and it starts becoming apparent why.

Lowetide 09-20-2003 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igor
I think you're wrong, Lowetide. And the results speak loudly.

I had thought the same thing inutitively. Somehow a couple brutal defensive plays by York while playing the point really stuck in my head. And coloured my opinion. Incorrectly as it turns out.

Then I was flipping through some stats and noticed of the Oilers and noticed that this team was far more likely to score when Marchant or York were on the powerplay. Which didn't make much sense, since clearly Comrie and Carter, maybe even Brewer, have better powerplay skills.

Break it down further and you realize it is because those were the two forwards who played the point. And the team as a whole just did a lot better on the powerplay when they used four forwards.

Watch a few powerplays after that and it starts becoming apparent why.


But how do you subtract York/Marchant PP points when they're playing up front from the ones they got as PP point men? I'm not doubting you, just wondering aloud.

igor* 09-20-2003 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowetide
But how do you subtract York/Marchant PP points when they're playing up front from the ones they got as PP point men? I'm not doubting you, just wondering aloud.

I can't lowetide. All I can do is separate them into two groups:

1. When on defenseman was on the ice.

2. When two defensemen were on the ice.

Invariably the team did better in case (1). So the players who played the point a lot have their numbers flattered because of it. (York and esp. Marchant, though a few others had a kick at it).

Lowetide 09-20-2003 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by igor
I can't lowetide. All I can do is separate them into two groups:

1. When on defenseman was on the ice.

2. When two defensemen were on the ice.

Invariably the team did better in case (1). So the players who played the point a lot have their numbers flattered because of it. (York and esp. Marchant, though a few others had a kick at it).


Well that's good enough though; okay, you've convinced me. Now the question becomes Hemsky and ??? and York and ??? One assumes Brewer and maybe Semenov? Luoma.

Knowing MacT he'll have 4 forwards and Cory Cross back at center as a safety valve. :D

igor* 09-20-2003 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowetide
...
Knowing MacT he'll have 4 forwards and Cory Cross back at center as a safety valve. :D

Don't even joke about that, Lowetide.

I still just can't believe that this noted powerplay specialist, Cory Cross, was logging all those minutes back there against Dallas in the playoffs. D'Oh! It was just idiotic, made no sense whatsoever. :rant: That's when I finally, fully believed that Billy Moores was really in charge of the powerplay. Madness. :rant:

I'm firmly in the Scotty Bowman / Mike Keenan camp on this PP issue (and its a camp that seems to grow every year amongst NHL coaches). The key is to get the right players on the ice. Keep it simple. Then just let them play.


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