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-   -   3way deal proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=12899)

FacelessButcher 09-20-2003 01:46 PM

3way deal proposal
 
I like the idea of Edmonton being a mediator between Detroit and Colorado.

To Detroit:
Comrie(helps Detroit down the center with injury prone yzerman)
Laraque(good fighter without huge defensive liability)
3rd pick 2004(with the lack of takers for Joseph I think it is reasonable)

To Edmonton:
Zetterberg(trading Datsyuk for Comrie is somewhat counter productive
since he is a young center with high upside which is exactly
what Detroit is looking for)
Joseph(tier 1 goalie)

then.....
To Colorado:
Joseph(lower trade value with fat contract not sure if detroit would pay
some of it)
Cross(6th d-man)
Bergeron(prospect good upside and power play specialist)

To Edmonton:
Derrick Morris(top 4 d-man, power play specialist, good shot, and
Edmonton boy)

I think this makes all 3 teams better off Detroit gets much needed help down the center and a fighter/enforcer to protect their high priced talent.Edmonton replaces some of comries scoring and gets a top 4d-man as well as help on the pp and opens up spots for prospects. Colorado gets much needed veteran goaltending in Joseph if they want to make a push for the cup.

Downside-Edmonton is left with out a legit fighter but Staios, Smith, and Isbister like dropping the gloves so not to bad and Smyth will need to play well as center since were still not that strong down the middle. Colorado may need to get some help on d from waivers if no one can step up.Detroit no down side Comrie > Zetterburg and Joseph is just dead weight for them at the moment.

McCabe24 09-20-2003 01:51 PM

hmm....This looks like another three way deal that popped up just a few minutes ago, could it be Mowzie in disguise? :joker: :rolleyes: except with Morris substituted for Foote, Laraque for Moreau and Zetterberg for Datsyuk....

Cross and Joseph still is not a valuable package, with Jospeh about to be left unprotected on October 3rd, and Cross...well he's Cross... :)

Enoch 09-20-2003 01:57 PM

PL would reject this. I think Edmonton and Detroit have possibilities of a trade....

DutchLeafsfan 09-20-2003 02:02 PM

Detroit wins this 3 way deal. IMO Comrie>Zetterberg, and on top of that they get arguably the league's best enforecer in Laraque, as well as a reasonable pick.

Mike8 09-20-2003 02:04 PM

These ridiculously stupid trade proposals should be deleted or moved to the fantasy board IMO.

Fedz 09-20-2003 02:06 PM

Edmonton ***** eveybody in this deal....

Zetterberg, and Morris for Comrie, Laraque, and a third


if im Lowe, where do I sign?

:yo:

DutchLeafsfan 09-20-2003 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fedz
Edmonton ***** eveybody in this deal....

Zetterberg, and Morris for Comrie, Laraque, and a third


if im Lowe, where do I sign?

:yo:

Actually IMO Detroit fleeces Edmonton, after which Edmonton subsequently rips off Colorado. And given the situation the Wings are in, that is not exactly likely...

Jon Burke 09-20-2003 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher

To Detroit:
Comrie(helps Detroit down the center with injury prone yzerman)
Laraque(good fighter without huge defensive liability)
3rd pick 2004(with the lack of takers for Joseph I think it is reasonable)

To Edmonton:
Zetterberg(trading Datsyuk for Comrie is somewhat counter productive
since he is a young center with high upside which is exactly
what Detroit is looking for)
Joseph(tier 1 goalie)

then.....
To Colorado:
Joseph(lower trade value with fat contract not sure if detroit would pay
some of it)
Cross(6th d-man)
Bergeron(prospect good upside and power play specialist)

To Edmonton:
Derrick Morris(top 4 d-man, power play specialist, good shot, and
Edmonton boy)

So in summary:

Edmonton gets: Henrik Zetterberg (LW/C), Derek Morris (D)
Edmonton gives up: Mike Comrie (C), Georges Laraque (RW), Cory Cross (D), Marc-Andre Bergeron (D), 2004 fourth round pick
Thoughts: If the Oilers were to move Comrie, this would be a lovely package to get in return for him. I still have some faith that they will be able to bring him back, but if they HAVE to move him, this is a handsome package to get in return. Zetterberg is a very talented young player who could blossom into a star. Morris is a very solid young defenseman who could help the Avs power play. But in all honesty, the Oilers need to keep either Cross or Bergeron to make this deal worthwhile. Otherwise they just upgrade their top four but lose overall depth, which is not a very good idea. Nice package, but loss of too much defensive depth. Take out a defenseman and replace it with a forward and the Oilers might do it.
Detroit gets: Mike Comrie (C), Georges Laraque (RW), 2004 fourth round pick
Detroit gives up: Curtis Joseph (G), Henrik Zetterberg (LW/C)
Thoughts: The Wings undoubtably would love to clear Joseph and his big contract out of town. They'd love it even more if they could get a young, talented center like Mike Comrie for him. Comrie could help replace Stevie Y when the ageless wonder at last calls it quits, albeit he has some maturing to do. Laraque would be a nice role player as well, but the Wings still have a lot of good role players - McCarty, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom et al - so there's no real point in him being in the deal. And giving up Zetterberg is a painful cost for Comrie. Nevertheless, I think that the Wings would probably do this to clear up their messy goaltending situation and to bolster themselves at center. They'd love to do it without giving up Zetterberg, but they need Comrie more than they do Zetterberg IMO.
Colorado gets: Curtis Joseph (G), Cory Cross (D), Marc-Andre Bergeron (D)
Colorado gives up: Derek Morris (D)
Thoughts: I don't see the Avs doing this unless if the Red Wings agree to pay some of Cujo's salary, which is a slight possibility. But the fact is that they could probably either scoop Joseph up off waivers and eat his salary or trade picks to the Wings to get them to pay some of his salary. Both those options are better than this one - giving up a very solid young defenseman that cost them a steep price to get for just Cujo and a pair of half decent defensemen.

I'll give a counter-proposal a shot...

First part of deal:

to Edmonton:
Henrik Zetterberg (LW/C)
Curtis Joseph (G)
cash (to pay Cujo's salary)

to Detroit:
Mike Comrie (C)
2004 third and fourth round picks

Second part of deal:

to Edmonton:
Martin Skoula (D)
to Colorado:
Curtis Joseph (G)
Ethan Moreau (LW)
cash (to pay his salary)
__________________________________________________ _______

Reasoning:

Oilers lineup:
Smyth-York-Hemsky
Zetterberg-Horcoff-Dvorak
Isbister-Reasoner-Laraque
Torres-Stoll-Chimera

Brewer-Semenov
Skoula-Smith
Staios-Cross

This deal does a number of beneficial things for the Oilers. First off, they upgrade themselves on defense. With the addition of Skoula, they have eight solid, NHL-caliber defensemen. It also allows them to clear up some roster space for Raffi Torres and Jarret Stoll, youngsters who are NHL-ready and deserve playing time. Zetterberg is a nice return for Comrie.

Red Wings Lineup:
Shanahan-Comrie-Yzerman
Whitney-Datsyuk-Hull
Holmstrom-Hudler-Deveraux
Maltby-Draper-McCarty

Lidstrom-Woolley
Hatcher-Schneider
Fischer-Chelios

This deal greatly benefits the Red Wings as well. With Comrie in town, they'd have a nice one-two punch down the middle of Comrie and Datsyuk. Better yet, both players are quite young and have their best years ahead. Comrie could be groomed to eventually replace Steve Yzerman as Detroit's best center. Cujo's salary being cleared out of town is also a nice benefit.

Avalanche Lineup:
Tanguay-Forsberg-Hejduk
Kariya-Sakic-Selanne
Battaglia-Nikolishin-Hinote
Moreau-Hahl-Worrell

Skrastins-Blake
Ballard-Foote
McAllister-Morris

This deal would secure the Avs the top-flight goaltender they need. Joseph had a weak season last year, but on a offensive juggernaut like Colorado, Joseph would have a lot of offensive production in front of him and so wouldn't need to be as good. And he's proven in the past that he can win big games. Moreau supplies the Avs with grit, character and leadership on the fourth line. Muckers are almost as important as scorers are on championship teams and adding him would be a nice finishing touch to the deal. The cash would help pay for Joseph's hefty contract. The loss of Skoula opens up a hole on defense, but the Avs have a couple nice prospects on defense - Keith Ballard, Johnny Boychuk, John-Michael Liles and Tomas Slovak - who could possibly step right into the lineup. Or someone like Ken Klee could be signed and would be a perfect fit. Don't rule out another trade either.

I know that the whole division and conference thing comes into play, but the fact is that Edmonton's hands are a bit tied with Comrie and that Detroit's hands are DEFINITELY tied with Curtis Joseph. There are not that many options out there.

Vincent Vega 09-20-2003 02:24 PM

As much as I love Laraque I would not trade Zetterberg for Laraque and Comrie. Let alone add in Joseph who will just get traded to our main competition. I also think Detroit would have zero intrest in Comrie because we are looking for a center with size. I am sure Kenny Holland would do it if it where Comrie for Joseph though but we all know that would never happen. Detroit wants to hang on to Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hudler, Grig, and Kronwall.

Jon Burke 09-20-2003 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
These ridiculously stupid trade proposals should be deleted or moved to the fantasy board IMO.

Well, I think that the idea has some merit, but needs some tweaking. Just my two cents... I know you're an intelligent hockey person, so I won't criticize your opinion, but I don't think this proposal is "ridiculously stupid". But then again, I love my proposals! :D

Mowzie 09-20-2003 02:32 PM

mowzie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by McCabe24
hmm....This looks like another three way deal that popped up just a few minutes ago, could it be Mowzie in disguise? :joker: :rolleyes: except with Morris substituted for Foote, Laraque for Moreau and Zetterberg for Datsyuk....

Cross and Joseph still is not a valuable package, with Jospeh about to be left unprotected on October 3rd, and Cross...well he's Cross... :)

dude, i might make bad trade pruposals, but I'm not gonna go and create alter egos to back them up. I have better things to do then come on message boards under different names.

bad trade pruposals, ya.

Mike8 09-20-2003 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danrik
Well, I think that the idea has some merit, but needs some tweaking. Just my two cents... I know you're an intelligent hockey person, so I won't criticize your opinion, but I don't think this proposal is "ridiculously stupid". But then again, I love my proposals! :D

This "FacelessButcher" has 1 post to his name, made a very similar proposal to one by mowzie that was just closed by Buffaloed in another thread... Joseph can likely be had in the waiver draft, neither Cross nor Bergeron would help Colorado (at least in the short term), while losing Morris would be a huge blow.

Added to that, I haven't seen any indication that the Avs would be at all interested in adding Joseph's salary -- even if he came for free. So to trade a top pairing defenseman for Joseph is ridiculously stupid in my books.

Your proposal makes more sense, and is reasonable, but I would wager the Avs wait 'till the waiver draft before dealing an asset for Joseph. I'd honestly be surprised to see the Avs not wait until December before pursuing a high-priced goaltender.

Jon Burke 09-20-2003 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
This "FacelessButcher" has 1 post to his name, made a very similar proposal to one by mowzie that was just closed by Buffaloed in another thread... Joseph can likely be had in the waiver draft, neither Cross nor Bergeron would help Colorado (at least in the short term), while losing Morris would be a huge blow.

Added to that, I haven't seen any indication that the Avs would be at all interested in adding Joseph's salary -- even if he came for free. So to trade a top pairing defenseman for Joseph is ridiculously stupid in my books.

Your proposal makes more sense, and is reasonable, but I would wager the Avs wait 'till the waiver draft before dealing an asset for Joseph. I'd honestly be surprised to see the Avs not wait until December before pursuing a high-priced goaltender.

Yeah, they'd probably wait and see if Cujo was available in the waiver draft before making an offer for him, but I mean, as you said they probably don't want to take on his salary so they'd probably want Detroit to pay for part of his salary. The only way to get that is through a trade. I honestly don't see Joseph getting claimed in the waiver draft because his salary is just too big. As far as I am concerned, he will only be moved via a trade.

Yeah, the Avs will probably wait to make a deal for a goalie and see how Aebischer does, but I mean, there's no time limit for these proposals is there? Who's to say something I'm suggesting now can't happen later? :)

Yayo 09-20-2003 02:46 PM

Hehe, some punk proposes Foote for Joseph and Cross...then some other punk proposes Morris for Joseph and Cross shortly after...I'll post a counterproposal.

Enoch 09-20-2003 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danrik
Morris is a very solid young defenseman who could help the Avs power play. But in all honesty, the Oilers need to keep either Cross or Bergeron to make this deal worthwhile. Otherwise they just upgrade their top four but lose overall depth, which is not a very good idea. Nice package, but loss of too much defensive depth. Take out a defenseman and replace it with a forward and the Oilers might do it.

So Morris is only worth a few depth d-men......???

:rolleyes:

Yayo 09-20-2003 02:52 PM

Hmm, scratch that thought. :joker:

Jon Burke 09-20-2003 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
So Morris is only worth a few depth d-men......???

:rolleyes:

Where'd you get that from?

I was just saying that the Oilers would be better off keeping some of their depth defensemen rather than gutting their defensive depth just to upgrade their top four.

Morris is worth what it cost to get him in Drury - a solid first liner who can score goals and make plays.

Vyse64 09-20-2003 03:20 PM

wow talk about ripping off the avs here

i like the idea but won't happen

Enoch 09-20-2003 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
wow talk about ripping off the avs here

exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by danrik
I was just saying that the Oilers would be better off keeping some of their depth defensemen rather than gutting their defensive depth just to upgrade their top four.

Lowe would do this trade after he finished urinating on himself at the idea. 5-6 lvl d-men are easily picked up, #1 d-men are not. Especially not young, scoring, and physical d-men.

FacelessButcher 09-20-2003 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
wow talk about ripping off the avs here

i like the idea but won't happen

I realize Av's were at a significant disadvantage in the trade but I guess I over anticipated their desire for a #1 goalie plus over-rated bergerons potential, besides everyone knows Joseph plays best on defensively suspect teams, if he does not see a good quantity of rubber he drifts out of the game. I also insinuated that detroit pick's up a piece of the contracts salary. I did state that Detroit was getting the best end so I totally agree that Detroit >Oilers >Avalanche in benefit from the trade. The deal does have premise just like others say it needs tweaks/adjustments. I think danrik's should be the new blueprint for the trade as it seems better balanced and Av fans should make propositions for better balance not flame.

Top 6 Oil D from Danrik's(looks good to me):
Brewer Smith
Staios Skoula
Semenov Cross
plus -Ferguson and Luomo for depth

P.S. I tried posting in mowzies but it got closed I thought U guys would cut me more of a break on my first post jeez.

s7ark 09-20-2003 08:34 PM

i don't know, I know everyone is bashing this deal, but it really does fill a lot of desires for every team.

Detroit gets a young offensive kid who will continue to develop long after Stevie Y has retired. And the get the enforcer they need to battle with Worrell.

Colorado gets the goalie they need to silence all the nay-sayers and gives the Swiss Miss andother year of development as well as a solid no 6 or 7 d man along with a feisty young D prospect

Edmonton gets a scorer to help replace comrie and a D man to fill out their top 4.

I don't think it is as lopsided as everyone else does, but I still think Cujo is a great golie that had a rough year. Everyone is down on him for losing to Giggy but seriously, he put up great numbers in the playoffs, the goals allowed wasn't detroit's problem, the goals for was...

Enoch 09-20-2003 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark
i don't know, I know everyone is bashing this deal, but it really does fill a lot of desires for every team.

Detroit gets a young offensive kid who will continue to develop long after Stevie Y has retired. And the get the enforcer they need to battle with Worrell.

Colorado gets the goalie they need to silence all the nay-sayers and gives the Swiss Miss andother year of development as well as a solid no 6 or 7 d man along with a feisty young D prospect

Edmonton gets a scorer to help replace comrie and a D man to fill out their top 4.

I don't think it is as lopsided as everyone else does, but I still think Cujo is a great golie that had a rough year. Everyone is down on him for losing to Giggy but seriously, he put up great numbers in the playoffs, the goals allowed wasn't detroit's problem, the goals for was...

but Cujo had an only moderate regular season with a great defense in front of him. Also, the Avs are the clear losers here. They have no need to trade for Cujo for such ahigh price. They could get burke and Khabibulin for less or nearly the same.

If you notice, I said that the Edmonton Detroit scenario, is plausible. Not the way things are set up now, but a trade could definitely be made between the two teams. Colorado's angle here just doesnt fit in........They lose a top 3 d-man that outperformed Blake last year, and get back Cujo, who they could have picked up on waivers, a 6 d-man, which they have plenty of fighting for the spot, and another defensive prospect, which they are also stockpiling as of late. I'm not flaming, I'm pointing out the trade incompatibility. :teach:

s7ark 09-20-2003 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch
but Cujo had an only moderate regular season with a great defense in front of him. Also, the Avs are the clear losers here. They have no need to trade for Cujo for such ahigh price. They could get burke and Khabibulin for less or nearly the same.

If you notice, I said that the Edmonton Detroit scenario, is plausible. Not the way things are set up now, but a trade could definitely be made between the two teams. Colorado's angle here just doesnt fit in........They lose a top 3 d-man that outperformed Blake last year, and get back Cujo, who they could have picked up on waivers, a 6 d-man, which they have plenty of fighting for the spot, and another defensive prospect, which they are also stockpiling as of late. I'm not flaming, I'm pointing out the trade incompatibility. :teach:

Oh I understand and appreciate the lack of flaming. I guess I am biast when it comes to Cujo, I am from edmonton and saw him absolutely steal two playoff series for the Oilers in the late 90s. I still think he could work some magic for the Avs.

About picking up Burke or Khabibulin for the same or cheaper, you are right, but I still think Cujo is better then both of them. Like I said he definately had a bad year last year. But did show positive signs down the stretch and into the playoffs. I am too lazy to look it up but didn't he post a 920 save % in the first round? That is nothing to scoff at. And that was with the intense pressure of playing for a cup favorite in hockey town.

I still think the proposal is valid and fair. My only hangup would be that I really don't know if I want to see a legit number 1 goalie with the Avs this year. The Avs lack of a proven goaltender is the only POSSIBLE chink in an otherwise impenitrable (spel?) armor. If the Avs had Cujo I can almost promise a cup victory this year. Baring injuries of course.

Also they would destroy my Oil all year as we have to play them more then any other team outside of the northwest.

But obviously Av fans have a different POV and I have to bow to their superior knowledge about their team. If they say they don't want/need Cujo or this is too much to give up then I will respectfully bow out of the chat. My knowledge of the Oil isn't bad but I can't claim to know all things for all teams in the league.

Best of luck to all teams this coming year. IT might be the last for a while so in the immortal words of "Fubar" - GIVE'R!!!

GO OIL!
GO HOCKEY!

Epoch 09-21-2003 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike8
These ridiculously stupid trade proposals should be deleted or moved to the fantasy board IMO.

Well said.I couldn't have said it better! :yo:

messy_eh 09-21-2003 03:09 AM

why would colorado or Detroit knowingly make a trade that makes each other better. It wouldn't happen unless both teams didn't have a choice. there will be no 3ways involving Col, Det and Team X, a scenario could involve a team trading thier own #1 to Colorado and then trying to deal for Cujo but no way does Cujo go to Colorado from Detroit in the same deal, unless there are no other options. But who is to stop Colorado and Edmonton from dealing with each other. maybe a deal somthing like this

Col - Mike Comrie, Tommy Salo, Corry Cross
Edm - Alex Tanguay, Martin Skoula, David Abeschier


Edmonton gets a skilled winger to replace a skilled center although i think Tanguay is the better player. Gets a younger d-man to grow with the team, and they downgrade in goal but Abieschier is more than Competent. If a contending team thinks he has enough he is a capable #1. Colorado gets an upgrade in goal with a proven playoff goalie a young gritty center and a vet d-man to fill in the hole. the 2 major selling points on this deal are the Oilers will save 2-4 million and the Detroit redwings don't get any assets for Cujo. The realistic picture is that Edmonton Best case scenario realisticly for this season is to make the playoffs and pull an upset. but they have teams with significantly more talent in front of them(dal, det, col, Van, Stl) and expect san jose and La to rebound from bad years. the emergance of Min and Ana as playoff team contenders, and teams like Calgary, Phoenix, Chicago, nashville, and colombus have better teams than they did last year. and the playoffs are by no means a certanty for Edm. so it may be time to let salo go and build for the new CBA nhl


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