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-   -   Proposal: Edmonton - Toronto (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1292275)

High On Oil 11-20-2012 02:39 PM

Edmonton - Toronto
 
To Toronto: Ales Hemsky

To Edmonton: Nikolai Kulemin

The Leafs need top line talent and have an abundance of 2nd-3rd line type players and prospects coming up. Edmonton has enough skill but lack size in the forward corp. Although both players struggled last season, they should rebound and fill big needs for both teams. Either top 6 is definitely more balanced after the trade:

Hall RNH Eberle
Kulemin Gagner Yakupov

Lupul Bozak Kessel
JVR Grabovski Hemsky

Thoughts?

MapleLeafsFan4Ever 11-20-2012 02:42 PM

If Toronto is going to trade Kulemin I think Burke is planning to include him for a trade for Roberto Luongo, so I can't see him being traded just for Ales Hemsky.

High On Oil 11-20-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 55914349)
If Toronto is going to trade Kulemin I think Burke is planning to include him for a trade for Roberto Luongo, so I can't see him being traded just for Ales Hemsky.

I think Vancouver might rather have Hemsky than Kulemin to play on Kesler's line ... Three way?

BonMorrison 11-20-2012 03:01 PM

Not sure if making the forward corps of the Leafs to be even smaller is a good idea. Burke has really been trying to add size to the top six. Kulemin is one of the bigger bodies on our team even if he's not in a top six role, he can play valuable shutdown on the third line.

Vankiller Whale 11-20-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mLian (Post 55915035)
I think Vancouver might rather have Hemsky than Kulemin to play on Kesler's line ... Three way?

I wouldn't mind that. Something else might have to be added, but as a base it sounds okay.

senorchang 11-20-2012 03:07 PM

oilers wanna try hemsky with yakupov. hemsky plays really well with jagr (lefty who plays rw, same as yakupov) on the lw. if those 2 can click then edmonton with will have 2 legitimate scoring lines.

BlueBaron 11-20-2012 03:14 PM

He is so injury prone. I suppose it is almost fair value because of that but we have no one else who is as good defensively at forward. Really doesn't make much sense for Toronto, he is better for a team that would not have absolutely need him in the line-up. Vancouver probabaly makes more sense.

oilersfan11 11-20-2012 03:19 PM

No deal from the Oilers pov.

kihei 11-20-2012 03:27 PM

From a fan standpoint, such a trade would be very tempting; from a practical standpoint, keeping Kulemin (and not trading him for Luongo) makes more sense.

Hero 11-20-2012 04:16 PM

I'm not a Hemsky fan. imo unless you're more sure with what you're getting in Kulie do you do or not do this deal.

You know Kulie plays a solid two-way game, and he hits like a truck.

The question is how is he offensively, will he pot 10 or 30?

If he's a 10 goal guy, then yes you do it, if he's a 30 goal guy then no way in hell do you do it.

WeridAl 11-20-2012 04:33 PM

Trade doesn't help the Oilers, Edmonton passes.

Mctopchowda 11-20-2012 04:34 PM

Risky trade, Hemsky is the better player. Edm needs a two way player tho.

Hemsky is risky cause he might get injured and only put up 40 pts in that season in which TML would be better off attempting to bring Kadri up.
Kulemin is risky because he might only put 7 goals in which id rather have keep Hemmer and have Ryan Jones as our 10 goal crash and bang defensive player

Kulemin would be the 5th best forward on the oilers and be challenged by MPS and Harti.
Hemsky will be tied for 2nd best forward with Lupul on TML

TML g u n n e R s* 11-20-2012 04:35 PM

Pass from leafs side

franfrey* 11-20-2012 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hero (Post 55918795)
I'm not a Hemsky fan. imo unless you're more sure with what you're getting in Kulie do you do or not do this deal.

You know Kulie plays a solid two-way game, and he hits like a truck.

The question is how is he offensively, will he pot 10 or 30?

If he's a 10 goal guy, then yes you do it, if he's a 30 goal guy then no way in hell do you do it.

Yup, I think the Leafs should wait one more season until they decide what to do with him.

oilerbear 11-20-2012 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by senorchang (Post 55916067)
oilers wanna try hemsky with yakupov. hemsky plays really well with jagr (lefty who plays rw, same as yakupov) on the lw. if those 2 can click then edmonton with will have 2 legitimate scoring lines.

So looking at 2 years of G production and GD
Eberle is most effective with RNH at Center and Smyth on LW

Hall has both his best G scoring and differential rate with Horcoff at centre facing the other teams #1.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...5v5&type=goals

gagner was most effective with Smyth and hemsky. thou hartikainen was only 1 goal every 40 games less than smyth. while smyth's numbers far exceed amy other LW with RNH.

So a Hartikainen-Gagner-hemsky line would be most effective.

Belanger and jones were the 3rd best 1st line C-W PK Pair. they each were most efective with Eager.

Hall-Horc-XXX
Smyth-RNH-Eberle
Hartikainen-Gagner-Hemsky
Eager-belanger-Jones

two RW together?

MastuhNinks 11-20-2012 05:09 PM

I'd rather keep Kulemin, the Leafs don't have any other player like him.

McCupofOil 11-20-2012 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeridAl (Post 55919669)
Trade doesn't help the Oilers, Edmonton passes.

Sure it does, Kulemin brings the grit that the Oilers so desperately need in the top 6. The question about Kulemin is if he's the offensive player of 2 years ago or the one last year. I would take the Kulemin of 2 years ago over a healthy Hemsky fairly easily when considering the Oilers needs but not the Kulemin of last season so it's risky.

I don't know why Toronto does this. They need more grit if anything and trading Kulemin for Hemsky is a step back in that regard.

Petro Points 11-20-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 55920621)
I'd rather keep Kulemin, the Leafs don't have any other player like him.

well if you want 7goals and 100 hits then EDM will trade you Eager. :)

oilerbear 11-20-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topchowda (Post 55919767)
Risky trade, Hemsky is the better player. Edm needs a two way player tho.

Hemsky is risky cause he might get injured and only put up 40 pts in that season in which TML would be better off attempting to bring Kadri up.
Kulemin is risky because he might only put 7 goals in which id rather have keep Hemmer and have Ryan Jones as our 10 goal crash and bang defensive player

Kulemin would be the 5th best forward on the oilers and be challenged by MPS and Harti.
Hemsky will be tied for 2nd best forward with Lupul on TML

You do know that that a player facing upper first comp with 65%+ zone starts averaged 2.75 EVP/60.
since the lockout.
A player facing the same players in a less than 35% zone start averaged .70EVP/60.

so saying a player had 40 pts is useless. he got 40 when he should have got 60 or he got 40 when he should have got 20.

All i know is Ales comp and zone start rate says he should have got 27 EVPt for his minutes played.
He Got 27.

Kulemin faced upper 2nd comp in a 53.3% zone start. the avearge since the lockout is 2.35EVP/60.

he played 920min/60 = 15.33 X 2.35 = 36 EVpoints

Kulemin had 28 EVPts.

This tells you alot more.

Mc5RingsAndABeer 11-20-2012 05:40 PM

Regarding the trade, the 2nd/3rd line grit players are dime-a-dozen.

Players of Hemsky's skill are extremely rare. Of course, Hemsky might end up being useless if he's injured, but it makes a lot more sense for Edmonton to let it ride and see what happens with Hemsky

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilerbear (Post 55920555)
Hall-Horc-XXX
Smyth-RNH-Eberle
Hartikainen-Gagner-Hemsky
Eager-belanger-Jones

two RW together?

I really don't think Horc or Smyth belong in our top 6 at this point (and that's only going to get worse as time goes on)

I'd rather roll with the youngguns in the top6 (plus Hemsky) and stress defense. Hopefully they'll all grow into competent 2-way players

Gavy 11-20-2012 06:21 PM

Lol @ people talking about Kulemins 7 goals last year. Kulemin got 30 the year before that and Hemsky never touched that.
Kulemin is a 2 way player that will put you on your ass and give it his all every night. Hemsky has amazing skill but can't put it together and he is made of glass.
Toronto doesn't touch this deal at all.
This is coming from a guy who chose the number 83 to wear years ago back when I first saw Hemsky

jumptheshark 11-20-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilersfan11 (Post 55916819)
No deal from the Oilers pov.

gotta agree there

for me Kulemin was a one season wonder and the output we saw from him last year is closer to what we would get

Spawn 11-20-2012 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavy (Post 55922073)
Lol @ people talking about Kulemins 7 goals last year. Kulemin got 30 the year before that and Hemsky never touched that.
Kulemin is a 2 way player that will put you on your ass and give it his all every night. Hemsky has amazing skill but can't put it together and he is made of glass.
Toronto doesn't touch this deal at all.
This is coming from a guy who chose the number 83 to wear years ago back when I first saw Hemsky

The 7 goals last year is more relevant than the one who scored 30 goals the year before. Yeah Kulemin could potentially be a 30 goal guy, but he could also be a Ryan Jones (as I believe someone mentioned already in this thread).

You don't trade a player of Hemsky's ilk to take a chance on that.

Gavy 11-20-2012 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spawn (Post 55922305)
The 7 goals last year is more relevant than the one who scored 30 goals the year before. Yeah Kulemin could potentially be a 30 goal guy, but he could also be a Ryan Jones (as I believe someone mentioned already in this thread).

You don't trade a player of Hemsky's ilk to take a chance on that.

You don't trade for a player who is constantly injured when your team is already soft enough. Maybe if we had a few bigger top 6 forwards who threw the body..but we don't and Hemsky will only make us softer

MapleReef 11-20-2012 06:51 PM

Good Call
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hero (Post 55918795)
I'm not a Hemsky fan. imo unless you're more sure with what you're getting in Kulie do you do or not do this deal.

You know Kulie plays a solid two-way game, and he hits like a truck.

The question is how is he offensively, will he pot 10 or 30?

If he's a 10 goal guy, then yes you do it, if he's a 30 goal guy then no way in hell do you do it.

I think you are right on with your assessment.


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