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-   -   Proposal: Sj - nyi (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1295631)

harro92 11-21-2012 04:57 AM

Sj - nyi
 
Joe Pavelski
for
Michael Grabner
Frans Nielsen

Christmas Izzy 11-21-2012 07:08 AM

Would have worked better after Grabners rookie season, his second was kind of weak.

I'd say that's not enough for Pavelski.

Chapin Landvogt 11-21-2012 08:09 AM

Two very likeable Islanders. Grabner had a real sophomore slump, but still potted 20 goals along the way. He should be seen as a 'joker' of sorts, because his speed is simply untaught and he always manages to get his 25+ breakaways a year. Realistically, he should settle in as a PKing 3rd liner with regular 25-15-40 capability.

Nielsen is very underrated and as good a 3rd line all-round center as you will find in the NHL, without the size. Thing is, he's the 2nd line center on the Isles. Put him on a good team and you're looking at a 10-20-30, +15 player who is gold in shootouts, decent on face-offs and even has some snarl when pushed around. He's also gotten gobs of PP time the past two seasons, so he can certainly play there as well.

If SJS can use these types of components, then I'd have to say that Garth Snow would have to consider the deal, especially in light of the forward prospects coming up in the system. The salary difference is a toss, but let there be no doubt that Nielsen is on a SWEETHEART deal. Grabner is earning what the 34 goal rookie season brought him. He was 'overpaid' in light of last season. Joe Pavelski is a multifaceted guy who could fit in nicely on an Islander team that could use him up the middle and on the wing (next to JT?). In addition, I'd have to think he'd bring in a bigger air of success than the Isles have seen in a while.

In any case, congrats to the OP! This deal certainly has its fantasy merits, even if fans of each team will show their usual attachments. I can see how both teams might consider a move of this nature, certainly in light of the expected oncoming decrease in the salary cap, whatever perceptive role it might play in whole.

TOGuy14 11-21-2012 10:18 AM

I can't imagine that SJ would even consider this deal.

CREW99AW 11-21-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harro92 (Post 55930135)
Joe Pavelski
for
Michael Grabner
Frans Nielsen

Pavelski's a ufa in July 2014.
Both Frans and Grabner have 4 -4 1/2 yrs left on their deals.

No interest in giving up either Frans or Grabner for 1- 1 1/2 yrs of Pavelski:shakehead

Richie Daggers Crime 11-21-2012 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 55933709)
Pavelski's a ufa in July 2014.
Both Frans and Grabner have 4 -4 1/2 yrs left on their deals.

No interest in giving up either Frans or Grabner for 1- 1 1/2 yrs of Pavelski:shakehead

Wow, really? Pavelski is twice the player of either of those guys and I like Nielsen a lot. I'd roll the dice on resigning Pavelski at the expense of those two any day, especially if you consider that you can flip Pavelski for something else if it's clear he won't resign.

Hatrick Marleau 11-21-2012 11:24 AM

I'd probably do it. We could make a 2nd line of Havlat Marleau Grabner. They be the fastest and one of the most dangerous lines in the NHL. Nielson would be a nice depth guy that we could use on the 3rd line. While losing Pavelski hurts since he is one of the best defensive players and faceoff guys in the game, We get 2 good defensive players that are young, which helps out the future and can keep our window open longer.

CREW99AW 11-21-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime (Post 55933871)
Wow, really? Pavelski is twice the player of either of those guys and I like Nielsen a lot. I'd roll the dice on resigning Pavelski at the expense of those two any day, especially if you consider that you can flip Pavelski for something else if it's clear he won't resign.

If the isles are giving up something significant in a trade, then I want the key player who's headed to LI, to be several yrs from unrestricted free agency.

I don't want the silliness we saw with the Ryan Smyth 'wooing'. I don't want Snow to have to wildly overpay in his extension offer(no more Yashin or DiPietro like offers).

We're in a lockout and could well see this entire season wiped off the books. If that happens, Frans and Grabner will have 3 yrs left on their contracts, while Pavs will have 1 yr left on his contract. It makes more sense, to use those trade chips to bring in someone who will be around longer..

As for flipping Pavs if he won't sign an extension...what would playoff bound teams offer? More picks and prospects. Certainly nothing important, since they would be looking to make a playoff run.

Dan-o16 11-21-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOGuy14 (Post 55932383)
I can't imagine that SJ would even consider this deal.

Yeah, Pavelski is, by far, the best player in the deal. Both Grabner and Nielsen are replaceable players, which is what makes it easy for the Isles to afford them.

But the idea for this deal shows the kind of leverage the Islanders might have as time moves on. We have cap space, and we have depth. Honestly, though, I'd rather spend the assets on a D-man.

I think San Jose would counter, and ask for Nielsen and Nelson. Size is important and that would give San Jose a reason to make a deal. As a NYI fan, I would not want to do that.

Cheers,

Dan-o

Dan-o16 11-21-2012 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 55934375)
If the isles are giving up something significant in a trade, then I want the key player who's headed to LI, to be several yrs from unrestricted free agency.

The situation has changed. NYI has to build up the team in anticipation of the move. If long term contracts are being honored at current rates and future contracts will be comparably reasonable, short contracts are not a terrible thing.

I understand why you've thought this in the past, Crew, but it's time to change your thinking.

Cheers,

Dan-o

TheJuxtaposer 11-21-2012 12:26 PM

It's the thought that counts, but it's not enough for Pavelski for me. He's a 30 goal, Selke-caliber, winger-center, on a great contract. Only way he's traded is if the Sharks want to go into a full re-build or if he intimates that he's not interested in re-signing at the trade deadline in 2014.

DuckEatinShark 11-21-2012 12:28 PM

Not a bad proposal involving Pavelski, but no. Grabner's slump last year kinda scares me.

Any chance we can replace Grabner with Moulson? We'd probably have to add, I'm guessing. Moulson would look great next to Thornton and Marleau.

seafoam 11-21-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 55933709)
Pavelski's a ufa in July 2014.
Both Frans and Grabner have 4 -4 1/2 yrs left on their deals.

No interest in giving up either Frans or Grabner for 1- 1 1/2 yrs of Pavelski:shakehead

If the Grabs we saw last year was an indication of what type of player he is going to be, then I'm not sure his contract holds much value.

As an Isles fan I would do it, Cizikas looks like he is poised to be a third line center and Grabs can be replaced on the third line. We would get a top six, right handed forward who can play center or wing. Yes, him leaving for UFA is a concern, but with the recent Brooklyn news and our stacked prospect pool I think Garth wouldn't hesitate making this deal. Regardless, I think SJ fans say hell no.

Richie Daggers Crime 11-21-2012 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 55934375)
As for flipping Pavs if he won't sign an extension...what would playoff bound teams offer? More picks and prospects. Certainly nothing important, since they would be looking to make a playoff run.

That's fine with me. It's Grabner and Nielsen... They're not exactly irreplaceable. Like I said, I'd rather roll the dice and take a chance on a really good player that fits the teams needs.

Besides, you're projecting. You don't have to "woo" or have drama to resign a guy over the course of 1 1/2 years. The Isles have had success resigning guys that heve been there for more than a few weeks. I think every once in a while you gotta sack up and take a chance on a guy that could really help you. It's not like you're giving up Tavares to do that in this scenario.

CREW99AW 11-21-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan-o16 (Post 55935051)
The situation has changed. NYI has to build up the team in anticipation of the move. If long term contracts are being honored at current rates and future contracts will be comparably reasonable, short contracts are not a terrible thing.

I understand why you've thought this in the past, Crew, but it's time to change your thinking.

Cheers,

Dan-o

Oh I agree, that the Brooklyn news will have Wang opening his checkbook again.
And I expect it'll happen before the team moves in 2015.

I just disagree with you, that the isles will viiew Grabner and Frans Nielsen as disposable, not valuable enough to matter that they'd be moved for a short term pickup.

I also disagree, that the isles will suddenly stop looking at a player's contract length.
At least until they have a team that is making some noise on the ice, drawing positive attention from opposing players and the press.

CREW99AW 11-21-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafoam (Post 55935551)
If the Grabs we saw last year was an indication of what type of player he is going to be, then I'm not sure his contract holds much value.

As an Isles fan I would do it, Cizikas looks like he is poised to be a third line center and Grabs can be replaced on the third line. We would get a top six, right handed forward who can play center or wing. Yes, him leaving for UFA is a concern, but with the recent Brooklyn news and our stacked prospect pool I think Garth wouldn't hesitate making this deal. Regardless, I think SJ fans say hell no.



Grabner's scored 54 goals over the last 2 seasons and developed into a dangerous pk player with his speed. I know some NYI fans consider him to be a 1 trick pony, but has Snow ever given any indication he feels the same?

Cause i'm guessing, Snow considers him to be a young core piece based on that 5 yr extension.

Corey Perry* 11-21-2012 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau (Post 55933881)
I'd probably do it. We could make a 2nd line of Havlat Marleau Grabner. They be the fastest and one of the most dangerous lines in the NHL. Nielson would be a nice depth guy that we could use on the 3rd line. While losing Pavelski hurts since he is one of the best defensive players and faceoff guys in the game, We get 2 good defensive players that are young, which helps out the future and can keep our window open longer.

First line of Thornton, Couture, and?

HockeyFan100 11-21-2012 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harro92 (Post 55930135)
Joe Pavelski
for
Michael Grabner
Frans Nielsen

Just need to add some 7th round draft picks to help sweeten the pot.

kasper11 11-21-2012 01:32 PM

From an Isles point of view, it depends on two things:

1) If there is a season this year. No interest in making the trade for 1 year of Pavelski. Two years is a different story.

2) The new CBA. If teams are forced to move/cut/buy out players as a result, the Isles could have opportunities to land players on the cheap.

seafoam 11-21-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 55935709)
Grabner's scored 54 goals over the last 2 seasons and developed into a dangerous pk player with his speed. I know some NYI fans consider him to be a 1 trick pony, but has Snow ever given any indication he feels the same?

Cause i'm guessing, Snow considers him to be a young core piece based on that 5 yr extension.

54 goals in the last two years in a nice stat if your trying to sell me on Grabner, but lets be realistic. He was a very different player in his second season with us. I'm sure Garth wasn't expecting Grabner to regress like he did when he made him part of our "core".

Also, I wouldn't say he is a great PK'er, he is not physical what-so-ever and his stick is very streaky when it comes to knocking the puck out. He has shown he can intercept passes at the blueline, but he isn't all that great at executing those chances.

KrisBeKreame 11-21-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 55935455)
It's the thought that counts, but it's not enough for Pavelski for me. He's a 30 goal, Selke-caliber, winger-center, on a great contract. Only way he's traded is if the Sharks want to go into a full re-build or if he intimates that he's not interested in re-signing at the trade deadline in 2014.

I agree that the trade would not go down as proposed. There is no way that SJ would be willing to take on more salary. I think it is a good base for a trade as I have tried to propose this several months ago. I just think there needs a couple other pieces to kind of smooth it all out.

To Call Pavelski a 30 goal scorer is a bit disingenuous as has only scored above 25 goals once in his 6 years in the NHL. He has hit 25 or above 3 times. He is aboslutely a 25 goal 60pt two way forward. However Grabner and Nielsen are both 40pt forwards that play a good two way game as well. When you call Pavelski a "Selke-caliber" player dont forget that Nielsen is also a Selke Nominated and caliber player, he just doesnt have the offensive upside that Pavelski has. Both Nielsen and Grabner are on great team friendly contracts.

Many have written off that grabner since he had a not as stat driven impressive second season. He suffered through an early groin pull and was slow to adjust to the teams that discovered how to nutralize some of his blazing speed. However towards the end of the season he was starting to come around. He did this while still potting 20 goals and playing an excellent PK, and away from the puck play.

The Main reason for the Islanders can make this deal is the system is starting to bust at the seams with quality prospects, not all of whom will have shots a roster spots. NOw is the time to make a coulpe of deals to get this team the quality Vet leadership to bring this team back into contention.

Hatrick Marleau 11-21-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampeus (Post 55936955)
First line of Thornton, Couture, and?

Clowe, Nielson, Wingels, Sheppard, or Galiardi.

CREW99AW 11-21-2012 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seafoam (Post 55937505)
54 goals in the last two years in a nice stat if your trying to sell me on Grabner, but lets be realistic. He was a very different player in his second season with us. I'm sure Garth wasn't expecting Grabner to regress like he did when he made him part of our "core".

Also, I wouldn't say he is a great PK'er, he is not physical what-so-ever and his stick is very streaky when it comes to knocking the puck out. He has shown he can intercept passes at the blueline, but he isn't all that great at executing those chances.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on Grabner. I like his goal scoring ability and speed. The fact that yrs 1-3 on his contract are so cheap, is just an added bonus.

He scored 7 shorthanded goals in his rookie season, while Neilsen scored 6. They have proven they can be a very dangerous pk combo.
Is Grabner the first player in the league to have a sophmore slump? Is that rookie season, gonna be his career highlight season? Seems like a lot of fans think so:laugh:

Sharks4Life 11-21-2012 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 55941833)
I'm not trying to sell anyone on Grabner. I like his goal scoring ability and speed. The fact that yrs 1-3 on his contract are so cheap, is just an added bonus.

He scored 7 shorthanded goals in his rookie season, while Neilsen scored 6. They have proven they can be a very dangerous pk combo.
Is Grabner the first player in the league to have a sophmore slump? Is that rookie season, gonna be his career highlight season? Seems like a lot of fans think so:laugh:

No he isn't and hopefully for him that's not his highlight season, but much like a Isles fan above stating that they don't want to be in a situation where pavs won't resign, we don't want to be in a situation where we have seto (on ice) v2.0. (Disclaimer: I was a huge Seto fan but to try and say that he didn't decline from his first magnificent season would be an out right lie)

TheJuxtaposer 11-22-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau (Post 55941295)
Clowe, Nielson, Wingels, Sheppard, or Galiardi.

Every single one of those combinations looks awful.

Thinking again, I might be interested provided this trade was accompanied by a Clowe trade for a young top-6 speedy goalscoring RW for Couture-Thornton

Couture-Thornton-XXX
Grabner-Marleau-Havlat
Wingels-Nielsen-XXX
Galiardi-Desjardins-Burish

Depending on the XXX's, that might be doable. Still would rather have Pavelski, as he's a much better player than either.


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