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Jimmyboi 11-23-2012 05:19 AM

Referees & Rules
 
If there's already topic for this already, I apologise. Didn't find any though.

This topic is meant to players, coach, refs etc. to ask about game situations - Do you think that your team experienced injustice? Did you made a bad call? Tell it here, and others tells their opinion.

Remember to mention which league it is - rules are different. Personally I know IIHF rules as my own pockets - shoot me.

v3rs3 11-23-2012 09:45 AM

We had an instance a few games ago where a guy had a pretty clear breakaway, our guy took out his feet and the other team was awarded a 5 minute major and a penalty shot.

Propane Nightmares 11-23-2012 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v3rs3 (Post 55979215)
We had an instance a few games ago where a guy had a pretty clear breakaway, our guy took out his feet and the other team was awarded a 5 minute major and a penalty shot.

:laugh:

I've got a good one, but it's only a rumour I heard and I'm not sure if it's true.

Basically under the rules of our governing body if the game doesn't start on time the home team is given a 2 minute delay of game penalty and starts the game shorthanded. It's very rarely given since most refs aren't that harsh but this guy did call it, and he then started the game with the opening faceoff in the home team's defensive zone rather than at center ice :laugh:

Jumbo* 11-23-2012 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v3rs3 (Post 55979215)
We had an instance a few games ago where a guy had a pretty clear breakaway, our guy took out his feet and the other team was awarded a 5 minute major and a penalty shot.

Nothing wrong with that at all as long as the major penalty was warranted. You did not provide enough information but if your guy two handed him in the ankle, or did anything that was "intent to injure" or that player was injured as a result of whatever he did, then yes, a Major penalty must be given . And if he was on a breakaway at the time then yes, he still gets a penalty shot along with that player getting a major.

If he was tripped, like any normal trip on a breakaway then the referee can't give both the minor and the shot, its either or.

This applys for every rulebook that I know of.

I have giving this once in my career. Player had a breakaway, player from behind crosschecks him hard about 5 feet from the net and the player flys into the post head first, injured. Not shot was released.

-Penalty Shot for player on breakaway (was replaced by another player since he was injured)
-Major Penalty for checking from behind into goal frame (or cross checking, I dont remember what i decided to call)
-Game Misconduct.

Malreg 11-23-2012 01:04 PM

After coaching for the last 6 years I have plenty of stories for this topic!

In an Atom house-league game (9-10 year olds), we were up 2-1 with 2 minutes left in the game when our goalie dropped his stick. Our defenseman picked it up for him and handed it to him and the ref immediately blew the play dead and called a penalty on him for holding two sticks at once. I tried to tell him that it only applies if the player tries to play with both sticks, which did not happen, but of course he wouldn't have any of it. I thought maybe I had the rule wrong, but later on I confirmed it with the head referee for our region that as long as you do not participate in the play with both sticks, it's not a penalty.

In a Novice A semi-final tournament game (7-8 year olds) the referee called a penalty on us in the third period. I started worrying about which players to get on the ice and giving them a couple of instructions and did not pay attention to the referee bringing our player to the box... The play starts, we're 5 on 4, and about 30 seconds into the penalty the referee blows the whistle and skates over to our bench and tells us that our player was not in the penalty box! I was confused and looked over to the penalty box and saw it was empty... When the referee called the penalty the other ref did not escort our player to the box, so he just came back to the bench. Of course at this point the other teams coach is hollering that the ref needs to give us another penalty now.

The referee tried to tell me he was going to give us a 2nd penalty now. I politely told him that it was HIS job and his responsibility to make sure that the player gets put into the box when a penalty is called, not mine. The problem now is that he does not remember who was supposed to get the penalty, so he tells me "Fine, I won't give you another penalty but your #10 has to go in the box", with #10 of course being our best defenseman.

In that same game, we are on a powerplay and the play starts, except the timekeeper forgot to start the other team's penalty timer. 20 seconds later, as we break-out on a 2 on 1, the referee notices the timer and BLOWS THE PLAY DEAD, instead of just letting them play on and either fix it at the next whistle or to just have the timekeeper tell the player in the box what time to get out at and ignore the timer. So they blow the play dead, take the 20 seconds off the other team's penalty, and have a face-off at center ice. Bravo.

I know in Novice you always have the younger beginner referee's, but it was the semi-finals of a tournament and it was 2 adult referee's working the game. Luckily we ended up winning the game anyways.

Jimmyboi 11-23-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

The referee tried to tell me he was going to give us a 2nd penalty now. I politely told him that it was HIS job and his responsibility to make sure that the player gets put into the box when a penalty is called, not mine. The problem now is that he does not remember who was supposed to get the penalty, so he tells me "Fine, I won't give you another penalty but your #10 has to go in the box", with #10 of course being our best defenseman.
Well, basicly, if player knows that he just got a penalty, he has to go to penalty box/locker room straight away, otherwise referee has right to call bench minor penalty as unsportmanlike conduct by player which is off-ice (at least in IIHF). though other referee (in 2 ref system) has "responsibility to make sure that the player gets put into the box ".

CoopALoop 11-23-2012 01:30 PM

Beer league always brings out some "the hell?..." moments.

You never know what rules the refs are going to call.

Some call crease violations, most don't.

Some call the play dead if the puck hits me in the head, most don't.

Some call interference on me if i shove a guy who is screening me, most don't.

Some give me penalties for giving them advice, most do.

It's tough when I know all of the rules pertaining to a goalie and the refs don't. I usually chalk it up to their overall oversight on that part of the rule book and that they are most likely players who don't agree with the special treatment goaltenders get.

One of my last games, 3 minutes left, were winning 3-1. There was a scrum between two players, they both go to the box, both captains go up to the ref to ask about the calls. As the ref is explaining, the other one is waiting at the face off circle in my end.

As they are discussing it, the other teams captain skates off as my captain and the other ref are still talking. Neither are moving or making any notion that the conversation is over. (it wasn't heated).

Ref at the face off circle is waiting and is obviously peeved at the delay. As our captain skates to the face off circle to get ready, the ref at the circle blows his whistle and gives our captain a delay of game penalty. As we all look bewildered, one of my defenseman ask why this penalty occurred considering he was talking to the ref. Ended up throwing out my defenseman after a "discussion".

Even the other team started beaking the ref because of his lack of patience. Let's just say that that ref skated off the ice really quickly after the game.

Malreg 11-23-2012 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyboi (Post 55982937)
Well, basicly, if player knows that he just got a penalty, he has to go to penalty box/locker room straight away, otherwise referee has right to call bench minor penalty as unsportmanlike conduct by player which is off-ice (at least in IIHF). though other referee (in 2 ref system) has "responsibility to make sure that the player gets put into the box ".

I agree, except that the player in question was a 7 year old kid who had no idea what was going on, and hadn't even realized he got a penalty.

Jimmyboi 11-23-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malreg (Post 55983123)
I agree, except that the player in question was a 7 year old kid who had no idea what was going on, and hadn't even realized he got a penalty.

Yeah, that's different case :)

v3rs3 11-23-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canon1990 (Post 55981713)
Nothing wrong with that at all as long as the major penalty was warranted. You did not provide enough information but if your guy two handed him in the ankle, or did anything that was "intent to injure" or that player was injured as a result of whatever he did, then yes, a Major penalty must be given . And if he was on a breakaway at the time then yes, he still gets a penalty shot along with that player getting a major.

If he was tripped, like any normal trip on a breakaway then the referee can't give both the minor and the shot, its either or.

This applys for every rulebook that I know of.

I have giving this once in my career. Player had a breakaway, player from behind crosschecks him hard about 5 feet from the net and the player flys into the post head first, injured. Not shot was released.

-Penalty Shot for player on breakaway (was replaced by another player since he was injured)
-Major Penalty for checking from behind into goal frame (or cross checking, I dont remember what i decided to call)
-Game Misconduct.

It was a simple trip. No malicious intent. This game also had 17 penalties called, where most of our normal games consist of 2-5 at the most.

Steelhead16 11-23-2012 03:57 PM

Had one coaching high school last year. Opponent was carrying the puck through the neutral zone. Just before the blue line the puck carrier loses the puck off his stick and was looking down and kicking it back to his stick. As soon as he looks down my defenseman stops and the kid slams right into him and gets called for interference. Kid hadn't lost full control of the puck (it wasn't free, it was in the area between his feet and his stick on its way towards the stick). The referee and I had a loud disagreemnet on the definition of puck carrier. My point was "how can you interfere with a puck carrier? And his view was that there was no puck carrier. I of course lost, but I was still right.

The other one in general that bothers me to no end is the simultaneous tripping/diving call. Diving needs to be called all by itself if we want to stop it. If someone trips you and you fall you did not dive. And if someone trips and you aren't going to fall down and you dive, he did not trip you. Interference maybe, but not tripping. I know its a judgement call but if you decide that the player took a dive then in your mind he was not going to fall.

TieClark 11-23-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steelhead16 (Post 55985745)
The other one in general that bothers me to no end is the simultaneous tripping/diving call. Diving needs to be called all by itself if we want to stop it. If someone trips you and you fall you did not dive. And if someone trips and you aren't going to fall down and you dive, he did not trip you. Interference maybe, but not tripping. I know its a judgement call but if you decide that the player took a dive then in your mind he was not going to fall.

Yeah that drives me nuts... I got called for diving once as well as drawing a tripping penalty because I lost my edge going for a puck.

I have a ton of stories but I also am brutal with some refs... now that I'm older and I'm just playing for fun I normally keep my cool but when I was younger I was pretty brutal.

Beezeral 11-23-2012 04:55 PM

Two stories from the same game.

First one. Opposing player attempted a wrap around on me on my glove side. He came up short and jammed the puck into the backside of my net. Ref immediately signals for a goal. I calmly point out the puck sitting on the back of the netting and not in the net. Ref is convinced he saw a goal so he checks the net for a hole the puck may have slipped through. He finds a tiny hole on the stick side of my net and determines that the puck defied all laws of physics and went across the crease, over the goal line, through the hole on the far side of the net, wrapped around the back of the netting(which included the bar in the middle of the net), and settled down on the back of the netting at the point of the shot.

To put it nicely, I ended that incident with a 10 minute misconduct.

Later in that game with less than 30 seconds left and my team trailing by one, opposing player blatantly closes his hand on the puck in the middle of the crease. Red awarded our team a 2 minute PP instead of a penalty shot. When questioned why he didn't rule for a penalty shot, he claimed that there was no such thing as a crease in roller hockey and therefore there was no grounds to call for a penalty shot. This was absolutely untrue and quickly disproved by everyone with 2 brain cells to run together after the game.

There is a reason I despise officials and have no respect for refs who refuse to admit they made a bad call.

mbhhofr 11-23-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canon1990 (Post 55981713)
"intent to injure"


"INTENT To Injure" is not in the rule book. It's "ATTEMPT To Injure"

If you write up a report stating that he was given a match penalty for Intent To Injure, the penalized player has a good reason to appeal the penalty and will likely win the appeal, because Intent To Injure isn't in the rule book.

rayuelo 11-23-2012 06:29 PM

Accidentally collided with an opposing player last night, and the dude cross checks me and I go down. I get up, pissed but apologize immediately for the unintentional bump, but he's in my face screaming "you wanna f***n fight"?

I was amused more than anything by his anger management issues, and start to skate away, AND the ref gives ME 2 min for roughing! WTF??

IDuck 11-23-2012 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayuelo (Post 55988441)
Accidentally collided with an opposing player last night, and the dude cross checks me and I go down. I get up, pissed but apologize immediately for the unintentional bump, but he's in my face screaming "you wanna f***n fight"?

I was amused more than anything by his anger management issues, and start to skate away, AND the ref gives ME 2 min for roughing! WTF??

have never had it happen to me but see this crap all the time and it drive's me insane.

Jimmyboi 11-24-2012 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beezeral (Post 55986851)
Red awarded our team a 2 minute PP instead of a penalty shot. When questioned why he didn't rule for a penalty shot, he claimed that there was no such thing as a crease in roller hockey and therefore there was no grounds to call for a penalty shot. This was absolutely untrue and quickly disproved by everyone with 2 brain cells to run together after the game.

Well, hard to say true answer, but here in IIHF, there's difference between closing the puck at goal crease and scrapping the puck away from the goal crease. if puck is completely under the glove, penalty shot shall be called. if puck is not completely under the glove, and you can see part of it when player scratches it away, play shall be continue.

Primrose Everdeen 11-24-2012 05:35 AM

I had a couple odd ones, one in either direction. One time I'm minding my own business along the boards, and a guy about 10 feet away from me loses an edge and falls down. The back official immediately calls a tripping penalty against me. Uhhh... right. I just skated to the box and joked about it with the timekeeper who had a clear view that I didn't do it.

The other one, I was skating down the boards after a puck and sneakily reached over and held the other guy's stick against the boards as we were coasting for a good 20 feet. As we neared the puck I lost an edge and fell down. The referee called a hooking penalty on the other guy, and he was rightfully quite unhappy about it. I just kept my mouth shut.

Beezeral 11-24-2012 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyboi (Post 55995217)
Well, hard to say true answer, but here in IIHF, there's difference between closing the puck at goal crease and scrapping the puck away from the goal crease. if puck is completely under the glove, penalty shot shall be called. if puck is not completely under the glove, and you can see part of it when player scratches it away, play shall be continue.

There was no mistaken judgement here. The player received a two minute penalty for delay of game for covering the puck inside the crease. The mistake came from not awarding a penalty shot. He was of the opinion that there was no such thing as a crease in roller hockey (not true in any league around the world) and therefore a penalty shot was not warranted.

Jimmyboi 11-24-2012 10:40 AM

I were officiating some junior game today. At some point, player got hit from behind. I raised my hand and called match penalty for checking from behind, since I weren't able to call 2+misconduct or 5+game misconduct because a) it was junior game, they're not allowed to check/hit b) player got hurt. How's this rule in North America?

Jumbo* 11-24-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhhofr (Post 55988067)
"INTENT To Injure" is not in the rule book. It's "ATTEMPT To Injure"

If you write up a report stating that he was given a match penalty for Intent To Injure, the penalized player has a good reason to appeal the penalty and will likely win the appeal, because Intent To Injure isn't in the rule book.

I was just explaining to him a scenario, I wasn't submitting a report. But next time I do i'll be sure to run it by you first.

Jumbo* 11-24-2012 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyboi (Post 55997447)
I were officiating some junior game today. At some point, player got hit from behind. I raised my hand and called match penalty for checking from behind, since I weren't able to call 2+misconduct or 5+game misconduct because a) it was junior game, they're not allowed to check/hit b) player got hurt. How's this rule in North America?

In USA rules in a non checking league, if a player is hit from behind its either Minor+Misconduct if its in open ice. Major+Game Misconduct if its into the boards/goal frame/injury. Match penalty may also be assessed instead if the intent was to injure a player.

Malreg 11-24-2012 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canon1990 (Post 55998759)
I was just explaining to him a scenario, I wasn't submitting a report. But next time I do i'll be sure to run it by you first.

In Quebec, whether it's a checking or non-checking league, any check from behind is either a 2+10 min misconduct, or a 5+10 minute misconduct.

Whether it deserves a 2+10 or a 5+10 is up to the referee. If it resulted in an injury, or was judged an intent to injure, then it will be a 5 minute major. If the ref gives a 2+10 the player also receives an automatic 1 game suspension, if it's a 5+10 it's an automatic 2 game suspension.

Jumbo* 11-24-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malreg (Post 55999197)
In Quebec, whether it's a checking or non-checking league, any check from behind is either a 2+10 min misconduct, or a 5+10 minute misconduct.

Whether it deserves a 2+10 or a 5+10 is up to the referee. If it resulted in an injury, or was judged an intent to injure, then it will be a 5 minute major. If the ref gives a 2+10 the player also receives an automatic 1 game suspension, if it's a 5+10 it's an automatic 2 game suspension.

Yes, sorry, that is the same here, it doesn't matter if its non checking or checking league, same rules apply for hitting/shoving from behind.

We don't have any sort of suspension for receiving a 2+10 though(Find it kind of weird too, you are allowed to finish the game then you get suspended), you get an game suspension for a game misconduct, and at least one for a match, subject to review.

Jimmyboi 11-24-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malreg (Post 55999197)
In Quebec, whether it's a checking or non-checking league, any check from behind is either a 2+10 min misconduct, or a 5+10 minute misconduct.

Whether it deserves a 2+10 or a 5+10 is up to the referee. If it resulted in an injury, or was judged an intent to injure, then it will be a 5 minute major. If the ref gives a 2+10 the player also receives an automatic 1 game suspension, if it's a 5+10 it's an automatic 2 game suspension.

Had to think for a while, but you guys say game misconduct as 10, right? in IIHF 10 min is personal misconduct penalty, ex. for unsportmanlike conduct, 20 minutes is game miscondcut and 25 is match penalty


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