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-   -   20 Greatest Red Wings (#9) Tiebreaker (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1297555)

pdd 11-24-2012 09:12 PM

20 Greatest Red Wings (#9) Tiebreaker
 
Who is your vote for the 9th greatest Red Wing ever?

Sid Abel or Pavel Datsyuk?

irishock 11-25-2012 12:50 AM

Abel is probably the weakest of the 6(7 soon) on the rafters. Datsyuk even at this point gets he nod over him.

pdd 11-26-2012 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishock (Post 56013727)
Abel is probably the weakest of the 6(7 soon) on the rafters. Datsyuk even at this point gets he nod over him.

Personally I rank Abel over Delvecchio. I seem to be in the minority on this board in that respect, but Abel was better during his time in the league than Delvecchio was in his.

We're getting to the point where it's very subjective between a lot of guys who were near the top of their positions, but not AT the top. Shown obviously in the scattered vote for #9 that resulted in Abel and Datsyuk tying.

The Zetterberg Era 11-26-2012 04:34 PM

Devecchio had almost twice as many points as Abel did games played in the league. He had a higher point per game average in both the playoffs and post-season. He was a captain of the team for 10 decades. Only played in a Wings jersey 1550 games, I honestly still don't get how he wound up as low as he did.

Sadekuuro 11-26-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 56051101)
I honestly still don't get how he wound up as low as he did.

Fedorov is the really questionable choice above Delvecchio, and I think that's just (forgive the paleontology lingo) "the pull of the recent."

pdd 11-26-2012 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 56051101)
Devecchio had almost twice as many points as Abel did games played in the league. He had a higher point per game average in both the playoffs and post-season. He was a captain of the team for 10 decades. Only played in a Wings jersey 1550 games, I honestly still don't get how he wound up as low as he did.

I completely understand why Delvecchio ended up so high.

But:

Abel won a Hart, was named to the 1st Team twice and the Second Team twice, led the league in goals once, was third another time, and 7th one more time. He was top-five in assists seven times and tenth one more. He finished top-five in points four times and 7th one more.

Delvecchio was a 2nd Teamer twice, once at C and once at LW. He was top five in points twice. He was top ten 11 times.

Abel clearly had a MUCH higher peak, and a notably better prime. Delvecchio had better longevity. A comparable argument might be Bobby Orr vs. Ray Bourque, or maybe Eric Lindros vs. Ron Francis.

pdd 11-26-2012 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadekuuro (Post 56054557)
Fedorov is the really questionable choice above Delvecchio, and I think that's just (forgive the paleontology lingo) "the pull of the recent."

Fedorov was absolutely dominant at his peak, and one of the league's best forwards for a decade. He was an elite defensive forward his entire career.

I personally think Fedorov is criminally underrated in historical view; I rate him in the 10-15 range among centers all-time (Abel also; Delvecchio is down around 20).

The Zetterberg Era 11-26-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 56058027)
Fedorov was absolutely dominant at his peak, and one of the league's best forwards for a decade. He was an elite defensive forward his entire career.

I personally think Fedorov is criminally underrated in historical view; I rate him in the 10-15 range among centers all-time (Abel also; Delvecchio is down around 20).

We have covered it but when it is as close as a lot of these guys are in the top 20, the length they played here and other factors come into play. I don't have a problem with where a lot of people want to put somebody this is all our opinion. I am lower on Sawchuk than a lot of people, I found that out. That doesn't mean he isn't a HHOF and a great Wings player, it just has to do with how you look at them and it is entirely personal. I understand the stats, but sometimes the feel element comes into play in this type of voting. Since we didn't establish this as talent or tenure but a subjective hybrid it is to the eye of the beholder. Delvecchio made the choice to stay in Detroit and has a bunch of things about him that make me think Red Wings player through and through. That is why I continue to laud his accomplishments, not because I think everyone is wrong but just to explain why I think he is underrated in this poll.

I guess you could say I vote by the one locked tenure. That could be right that could be wrong, but it is a factor for me. Lidstrom's numbers will look similarly staggering below that number 5.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ed_Banners.jpg

pdd 11-30-2012 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 56058317)
I guess you could say I vote by the one locked tenure. That could be right that could be wrong, but it is a factor for me. Lidstrom's numbers will look similarly staggering below that number 5.

Abel's number would say 1938-1952 if not for missing time due to the war.

I think that's hardly something you can fault him on.


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