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-   -   KHL in 5 years? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1298517)

BalticWarrior 11-27-2012 12:27 PM

KHL in 5 years?
 
How do you see the league developing in the next 5 years?
Maybe teams from sweden/finland/Switzerland/germany will be joining the league?
Maybe the first KHL winter classic will be played?
What do you see in the future?

malkinfan 11-27-2012 01:40 PM

Very interesting. I remember Fetisov at the time of inception of the KHL claimed that they would be able to compete head on with the NHL in 5 years... Maybe he knew there would be a lockout in the NHL lol.
But main things that I see are full attendances many nice arenas, a few more guys opting to play here than in the NHL etc... Poor teams with low attendance and bad arenas eventually dropped. All games in HD. These things might be more of a 10 year plan but I totally see it happening.
On a side note, with all of this craze of head injuries (Which is relatively new) I see the bigger ice being more popular as Kovalev says it. safer. More guys opting to have careers in the KHL.
Also, marketing has gone 100 miles since day 1. Great website: no complaints, english broadcasts and match reviews, the online shop is growing, facebook, youtube, twitter.
Having guys like Osdachenko and Dangle are a no brainer because the gull-able Canadian hockey fans like and trust him. He's been promoting the KHL via his website, twitter etc... A huge step in the right direction. Maybe hire Chesnokov to do interviews and reports as well, or create a personality KHL tv show like the TSN Panel or Coaches Room:sarcasm:.

Basically the goal is to create enjoyable to watch hockey, it already is 100x better than when it started out.

BalticWarrior 11-27-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 56069863)
Very interesting. I remember Fetisov at the time of inception of the KHL claimed that they would be able to compete head on with the NHL in 5 years... Maybe he knew there would be a lockout in the NHL lol.
But main things that I see are full attendances many nice arenas, a few more guys opting to play here than in the NHL etc... Poor teams with low attendance and bad arenas eventually dropped. All games in HD. These things might be more of a 10 year plan but I totally see it happening.
On a side note, with all of this craze of head injuries (Which is relatively new) I see the bigger ice being more popular as Kovalev says it. safer. More guys opting to have careers in the KHL.
Also, marketing has gone 100 miles since day 1. Great website: no complaints, english broadcasts and match reviews, the online shop is growing, facebook, youtube, twitter.
Having guys like Osdachenko and Dangle are a no brainer because the gull-able Canadian hockey fans like and trust him. He's been promoting the KHL via his website, twitter etc... A huge step in the right direction. Maybe hire Chesnokov to do interviews and reports as well, or create a personality KHL tv show like the TSN Panel or Coaches Room:sarcasm:.

Basically the goal is to create enjoyable to watch hockey, it already is 100x better than when it started out.

I could also see this happening in the next 5-10 years,for sure.

zorz 11-27-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 56069863)
Very interesting. I remember Fetisov at the time of inception of the KHL claimed that they would be able to compete head on with the NHL in 5 years... Maybe he knew there would be a lockout in the NHL lol.
But main things that I see are full attendances many nice arenas, a few more guys opting to play here than in the NHL etc... Poor teams with low attendance and bad arenas eventually dropped. All games in HD. These things might be more of a 10 year plan but I totally see it happening.
On a side note, with all of this craze of head injuries (Which is relatively new) I see the bigger ice being more popular as Kovalev says it. safer. More guys opting to have careers in the KHL.
Also, marketing has gone 100 miles since day 1. Great website: no complaints, english broadcasts and match reviews, the online shop is growing, facebook, youtube, twitter.
Having guys like Osdachenko and Dangle are a no brainer because the gull-able Canadian hockey fans like and trust him. He's been promoting the KHL via his website, twitter etc... A huge step in the right direction. Maybe hire Chesnokov to do interviews and reports as well, or create a personality KHL tv show like the TSN Panel or Coaches Room:sarcasm:.

Basically the goal is to create enjoyable to watch hockey, it already is 100x better than when it started out.

or Melrose's place...

Fulcrum 11-27-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 56069863)
Very interesting. I remember Fetisov at the time of inception of the KHL claimed that they would be able to compete head on with the NHL in 5 years... Maybe he knew there would be a lockout in the NHL lol.
But main things that I see are full attendances many nice arenas, a few more guys opting to play here than in the NHL etc... Poor teams with low attendance and bad arenas eventually dropped. All games in HD. These things might be more of a 10 year plan but I totally see it happening.
On a side note, with all of this craze of head injuries (Which is relatively new) I see the bigger ice being more popular as Kovalev says it. safer. More guys opting to have careers in the KHL.
Also, marketing has gone 100 miles since day 1. Great website: no complaints, english broadcasts and match reviews, the online shop is growing, facebook, youtube, twitter.
Having guys like Osdachenko and Dangle are a no brainer because the gull-able Canadian hockey fans like and trust him. He's been promoting the KHL via his website, twitter etc... A huge step in the right direction. Maybe hire Chesnokov to do interviews and reports as well, or create a personality KHL tv show like the TSN Panel or Coaches Room:sarcasm:.

Basically the goal is to create enjoyable to watch hockey, it already is 100x better than when it started out.

It's come a very long way. I think it's also important to note that there is now a KHL SYSTEM (MHL-VHL-KHL, KHLPA, Referee body and NT Partnership).

I think that is the biggest accomplishment of all. The fact that they could create an infrastructure IN RUSSIA for a future sustainable league (ability to develop and keep it's own talent) is quiet something. It's a huge progress from where we were with FHR / RSL days.

The good news is that it is obvious what needs to be done next and it's only a matter of time until it's accomplished.

Fulcrum 11-27-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorz (Post 56069999)
or Melrose's place...

:laugh::laugh::laugh: "And now, Melrose's take on the Soviet hockey..."

vorky 11-27-2012 02:18 PM

KHL is independent from FHR, so IIHF

Peter25 11-27-2012 02:38 PM

It depends how much oil and gas Russia can still extract from the Russian ground and what is the energy price then.

BalticWarrior 11-27-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter25 (Post 56071151)
It depends how much oil and gas Russia can still extract from the Russian ground and what is the energy price then.

Im putting my bet that in next 5 years there still will be plenty of oil and gas to extract and by the time oil grows scarcer and scarcer next 15-20 years KHL should already have set up a profitable league.

Peter25 11-27-2012 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 56071287)
Im putting my bet that in next 5 years there still will be plenty of oil and gas

In five years the oil fields in Russia that are responsible for the most of the current oil production will be mostly depleted.

Russia has to be able to open new fields in the north to make up for this. And hopefully shale oil production will also take off in the Bazhenov formation in Siberia.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 56071287)
KHL should already have set up a profitable league.

How do you make the KHL profitable?

Ticket prices have to be raised and large TV contracts signed to be able to do that. And there we go back to oil and gas again. If the financing of the KHL is to come from the Russian consumers then Russian economy (and salaries!) will have to grow a lot. Oil and gas are essential for the growth because I don't see Russia becoming a high tech economy with strong industry any time soon.

kajoo 11-27-2012 03:01 PM

Now gate revenue makes like 10% of all income (f.e. Slovan), if it will be 20-25% in 5 years, it could be big step forward imo. When living standard slowly grows hand in hand with buying power of fans, KHL teams financing might a bit more balanced. Still dependant from rich owners/sponsors, but with higher proportion of gate income + merchandise.

TV rights might become a factor when KHL turns into truly all-european competition, which would happen when teams from rich countries like Germany/Sweden/Finnland join.

I hope Slovan expands its arena, because 10055 capacity isn't enough. Plus I would love to see Kosice joining, but that's more wishfull thinking than reality.

kajoo 11-27-2012 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 56069863)
But main things that I see are full attendances many nice arenas, a few more guys opting to play here than in the NHL etc... Poor teams with low attendance and bad arenas eventually dropped.

NHL set min.capacity requirement on 15k sometimes in 80s. I can see KHL taking similar decision in the future, f.e. 7k

Faterson 11-27-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 56069863)
Great website: no complaints, english broadcasts and match reviews

I beg to differ on this. I'm sure khl.ru has impoved compared to the past, but when compared to nhl.com, it's ridiculously inadequate. Very little original content, sparse news feed, no analyses, no user feedback, etc.

As to the broadcasts, it's a downright PR debacle that the webpages where you can buy KHL streams are still Russian-only, no international payment methods (such as PayPal) are offered, etc. (See the dedicated thread on this board.) I'm giving khl.ru a :thumbd: for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajoo (Post 56071753)
I hope Slovan expands its arena, because 10055 capacity isn't enough.

That arena can no longer be reasonably expanded. Slovan needs a new hockey arena elsewhere in the city, plain and simple. (As was the original intention about 5 years ago.) And I wouldn't be scared of building a 20+ thousand hockey arena; this city of half a million can certainly sustain that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajoo (Post 56071753)
Plus I would love to see Kosice joining, but that's more wishfull thinking than reality.

I'm not so pessimistic; I do hope Košice will join the KHL soon, preferably the very next season. U. S. Steel want to sell the steel-works there (the hockey club's traditional sponsor), and allegedly one of the candidate buyers is the Ukrainian oligarch, owner of the Shakhtar Donetsk football club. It will perhaps be bad for Slovakia's economy if U. S. Steel leave Košice and sell out to a post-Soviet new owner... but it might nudge Košice's hockey team closer to joining the KHL.

What I'd love to see is three Slovak teams in the KHL, one for each traditional Slovak region (West, Central, East). I'm afraid, though, that this is indeed wishful thinking -- that a club like Zvolen (the current season's dominating leader in the Slovak league) or Trenčín (home club of Hossa, Gáborik, Demitra, Chára...) might join the KHL, given today's state of the Slovak and European economy.

To end on a humorous note, in a debate on this topic at Slovak news site sme.sk, a poster said he expects the KHL and NHL to merge to form the GHL (Global Hockey League), later to be expanded into the SHL (Space Hockey League), featuring hockey teams from southern Mars and north-eastern Pluto. :D

Peter25 11-27-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faterson (Post 56074027)
the SHL (Space Hockey League), featuring hockey teams from southern Mars and north-eastern Pluto. :D

Do you the the SHL would still be able to make profit with increased gasoline costs?

CoolForumNamePending 11-27-2012 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajoo (Post 56071753)
TV rights might become a factor when KHL turns into truly all-european competition, which would happen when teams from rich countries like Germany/Sweden/Finnland join.

If this does happen (saying 'when' I think is still a pretty big assumption at this point) would it really result in huge TV money? Is 2 or 3 teams each in Sweden & Finland, with a combined population of 14-15 million, really going to lead to substantial TV money from those markets, especially when you consider a lot of hockey fans seem perfectly cool with supporting clubs in their own domestic leagues? In the case of Germany it is obviously a wealthy country with a large population/TV market but hockey doesn't have the highest of profiles there.

Bolt32 11-27-2012 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faterson (Post 56074027)
I beg to differ on this. I'm sure khl.ru has impoved compared to the past, but when compared to nhl.com, it's ridiculously inadequate. Very little original content, sparse news feed, no analyses, no user feedback, etc.

As to the broadcasts, it's a downright PR debacle that the webpages where you can buy KHL streams are still Russian-only, no international payment methods (such as PayPal) are offered, etc. (See the dedicated thread on this board.) I'm giving khl.ru a :thumbd: for now.



That arena can no longer be reasonably expanded. Slovan needs a new hockey arena elsewhere in the city, plain and simple. (As was the original intention about 5 years ago.) And I wouldn't be scared of building a 20+ thousand hockey arena; this city of half a million can certainly sustain that.



I'm not so pessimistic; I do hope Košice will join the KHL soon, preferably the very next season. U. S. Steel want to sell the steel-works there (the hockey club's traditional sponsor), and allegedly one of the candidate buyers is the Ukrainian oligarch, owner of the Shakhtar Donetsk football club. It will perhaps be bad for Slovakia's economy if U. S. Steel leave Košice and sell out to a post-Soviet new owner... but it might nudge Košice's hockey team closer to joining the KHL.

What I'd love to see is three Slovak teams in the KHL, one for each traditional Slovak region (West, Central, East). I'm afraid, though, that this is indeed wishful thinking -- that a club like Zvolen (the current season's dominating leader in the Slovak league) or Trenčín (home club of Hossa, Gáborik, Demitra, Chára...) might join the KHL, given today's state of the Slovak and European economy.

To end on a humorous note, in a debate on this topic at Slovak news site sme.sk, a poster said he expects the KHL and NHL to merge to form the GHL (Global Hockey League), later to be expanded into the SHL (Space Hockey League), featuring hockey teams from southern Mars and north-eastern Pluto. :D

To be honest, if the KHL stablizes itself and becomes a profitable league, I would expect it some where down the line that it will merge with the NHL. Which honestly, will only grow the league. I see the start of the first world league in sports. Will it happen in 5 years? Of course not, but in the future can definitely see it happening.

Faterson 11-27-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolt32 (Post 56076933)
To be honest, if the KHL stablizes itself and becomes a profitable league, I would expect it some where down the line that it will merge with the NHL. Which honestly, will only grow the league. I see the start of the first world league in sports. Will it happen in 5 years? Of course not, but in the future can definitely see it happening.

I'd be all in favour! But, of course Europeans would. It's mostly Canadians who would likely perceive it as an affront against the venerable traditions and trademarks of the NHL and the Stanley Cup. (Even though the term "NHL" is, strictly speaking, a misnomer even right now.) :p:

My team Slovan Bratislava is playing @ Amur Khabarovsk tomorrow at 9 a.m. Yep, 9 a.m. on a Wednesday -- for Slovan fans back at home. For the players, it will be 7 p.m. Slovan's team had to cross 10 time zones to get to Khabarovsk, and the flight took 12 hours with a break in Novosibirsk along the way. As Slovak hockey fans observed, not a single NHL team is removed by 10 time zones from Slovan. It's "only" 6-9 time zones. Yet Slovan plays in a league with a team that is 10 time zones away from us. It would make more sense, strictly geographically speaking, for either Slovan or Amur to play against any NHL team tomorrow, than to play against one another. In fact, Amur Khabarovsk would more appropriately be placed in the NHL's Western Conference than where it is placed now, with most of their opponents located in far-away Europe.

Ryker 11-27-2012 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faterson (Post 56074027)
I beg to differ on this. I'm sure khl.ru has impoved compared to the past, but when compared to nhl.com, it's ridiculously inadequate. Very little original content, sparse news feed, no analyses, no user feedback, etc.

As to the broadcasts, it's a downright PR debacle that the webpages where you can buy KHL streams are still Russian-only, no international payment methods (such as PayPal) are offered, etc. (See the dedicated thread on this board.) I'm giving khl.ru a :thumbd: for now.

Oh, come on, the site isn't that bad. It might not get a :yo:, but it doesn't deserve :thumbd: But there are things that need to be improved (better stats and making them more easily readable, for example) and agree with you that more content could be added. I, for one, am also quite annoyed by the terribly edited highlight videos they put on youtube. I'm watching the Russian version, but the clips are usually too long, at least for what they show. They sometimes go up to 10 minutes, but you get less of an overview as to what was going on in the game than you do with NHL's ~5 min clips. Too many replays of goals and not enough of good plays that didn't result in one. At least they're putting them up, though, so it's a (good) start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faterson (Post 56074027)
I'm not so pessimistic; I do hope Košice will join the KHL soon, preferably the very next season. U. S. Steel want to sell the steel-works there (the hockey club's traditional sponsor), and allegedly one of the candidate buyers is the Ukrainian oligarch, owner of the Shakhtar Donetsk football club. It will perhaps be bad for Slovakia's economy if U. S. Steel leave Košice and sell out to a post-Soviet new owner... but it might nudge Košice's hockey team closer to joining the KHL.

What I'd love to see is three Slovak teams in the KHL, one for each traditional Slovak region (West, Central, East). I'm afraid, though, that this is indeed wishful thinking -- that a club like Zvolen (the current season's dominating leader in the Slovak league) or Trenčín (home club of Hossa, Gáborik, Demitra, Chára...) might join the KHL, given today's state of the Slovak and European economy.

With so many new teams, though, how much further do you think the KHL can expand? I'm namely quite skeptical about this, since the league's already large, and adding more Slovak, Finnish, Swedish, German, Italian or even Croatian (Medvescak?!) teams would probably necessitate creating more local divisions, and this would, at least for me, make the league less interesting. I don't want to see the Moscow teams battling it out amongst themselves all the time, for example. And a significant expansion might also have a negative influence on domestic leagues in countries that would get a new KHL member, drawing all the best players to that club alone. I don't know, I think it would just skew the playing field, and since you mention wanting 3 Slovakian teams in the KHL, what would then happen to the Extraliga? From what I gather, its quality is getting poorer by the year as it is, but with this it would become a laughing matter if you selling it as one of Europe's better leagues.

malkinfan 11-28-2012 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryker (Post 56079185)
Oh, come on, the site isn't that bad. It might not get a :yo:, but it doesn't deserve :thumbd: But there are things that need to be improved (better stats and making them more easily readable, for example) and agree with you that more content could be added. I, for one, am also quite annoyed by the terribly edited highlight videos they put on youtube. I'm watching the Russian version, but the clips are usually too long, at least for what they show. They sometimes go up to 10 minutes, but you get less of an overview as to what was going on in the game than you do with NHL's ~5 min clips. Too many replays of goals and not enough of good plays that didn't result in one. At least they're putting them up, though, so it's a (good) start.

Im in agreement with you. The site has slowly been improving. You can find stats on the stats page under the team stats.. Took me a while to figure it out, the stats should be hyperlinked so that if you click on a players name or team you are redirected the corresponding stats page. All boxscores are available in english now. This is a great improvement, no longer have to go to sportbox via translate.
I agree with the youtubes, sometimes you get 4 replays of a lousy pointshot. The english versions are better but for some reason they don't like to edit all of the games (seems like certain teams get the shaft more than others) not sure why or whether its a contractual thing or not.

Vicente 11-28-2012 12:48 AM

I think KHL in 5-10 years will have around 32 teams and no such stupid debate anymore of a 64 team league or a merge with NHL (lol). Nobody wants to see a league where you face an opponent every couple of years... If you want to have a competition with NHL then create something like the FIFA Club Worldcup... ;)

Fill the league with Kosice, Medvescak, a team in Sochi, a team in Kiew and maybe 2 other Russian cities. Maybe get a team in Paris (ice hockey was always pretty popular there and if they play in Bercy), same goes for Italy... ;)

It is not really realistic that KHL expands to the West further more. In Sweden and Finland the league is not very popular for several reasons, Norway, Denmark are not big hockey nations, Germany and Switzerland have their own strong national leagues and even with one team in the KHL from these countries that would be just a side note.

I guess arenas will be even better and TV broadcasts, better media coverage worldwide, better advertisement for the league, more spectators and more income to get at least a bit independent of big sponsors.

Helpoing 11-28-2012 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 56085043)
I agree with the youtubes, sometimes you get 4 replays of a lousy pointshot. The english versions are better but for some reason they don't like to edit all of the games (seems like certain teams get the shaft more than others) not sure why or whether its a contractual thing or not.

My guess is that Osadchenko & Dangle don't want to take more. I bet it takes some time to do the voice-overs and editing and those guys have other jobs/responsibilities as well.

kajoo 11-28-2012 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending (Post 56076185)
If this does happen (saying 'when' I think is still a pretty big assumption at this point) would it really result in huge TV money? Is 2 or 3 teams each in Sweden & Finland, with a combined population of 14-15 million, really going to lead to substantial TV money from those markets, especially when you consider a lot of hockey fans seem perfectly cool with supporting clubs in their own domestic leagues? In the case of Germany it is obviously a wealthy country with a large population/TV market but hockey doesn't have the highest of profiles there.

I never mentioned "huge money" rather an TV money becoming factor, because as of today, income from TV money is non-factor.


Germany having one team in KHL would be perfectly enough imo. Not hockey nation but rather an hockey friendly nation, all they need to get hooked is to achieve some sort of international success, and KHL could be the way, as their NT is terrible. Everyone there hates Bayern 24/7 but when comes to Bayern in UEFA CL, Bayern always turn into all-German team.

No idea how happy are fans with domestic league, I found their league quite good but little boring (attended some games in W-burg and N-berg) due to banned fighting, players couldnt throw punches because it would cost them fortune on fines. Some fans could be missing that as well. Not sure that KHL offers them that, but it´s rather a change for the ones who wants some change. Who is prfectly happy with what he gets can stick to domestic league, problem solved.

Vicente 11-28-2012 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajoo (Post 56086001)
No idea how happy are fans with domestic league, I found their league quite good but little boring (attended some games in W-burg and N-berg) due to banned fighting, players couldnt throw punches because it would cost them fortune on fines. Some fans could be missing that as well. Not sure that KHL offers them that, but it´s rather a change for the ones who wants some change. Who is prfectly happy with what he gets can stick to domestic league, problem solved.

What Bayern München is in football for Germans, has Eisbären Berlin become in ice hockey. Everybody wants to beat them and avoid another title for them. I guess it's pretty similar to the situation you had in Slovakia until last summer.

Wolfsburg and Nürnberg are not really top places for hockey though there is a winter classic in Nürnberg in January that already has set a new attendance record for a European ice hockey league game with 35,000+ spectators.

It's not like hockey is unpopular in Germany. The attendence average is even higher than in the KHL (Berlin, Cologne, Mannheim, Hamburg have really great numbers). But of course 14,200 in Berlin look lousy compared to 80,000 in Dortmund at a football game. It is a bit problematic that Germany is half way succesful in any team sports... even American Football had 30,000 spectators per game 10 years ago when there was this NFL Europe ting. Handball and Basketball also have like 5,000 fans at every match.:shakehead

ult 11-28-2012 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicente (Post 56086139)
The attendence average is even higher than in the KHL

This year KHL is ahead of del. Percent-wise del's attendance looks atrocious - around 60%.

kajoo 11-28-2012 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicente (Post 56086139)
What Bayern München is in football for Germans, has Eisbären Berlin become in ice hockey. Everybody wants to beat them and avoid another title for them. I guess it's pretty similar to the situation you had in Slovakia until last summer.

I think if Eisbaeren represented Germany in KHL, they would become all-Germany team, thats why I mentioned Bayern reference. Which is OK, not because of UEFA 5y coefficients as in case of football, but because it´s something whole Germany can be proud of.

Same goes for Slovan, I heard ppl who hated Slovan with passion saying some positive things about Slovan this season.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicente (Post 56086139)
Wolfsburg and Nürnberg are not really top places for hockey though there is a winter classic in Nürnberg in January that already has set a new attendance record for a European ice hockey league game with 35,000+ spectators

true. W-burg had mini arena for 2k at that time (small capacity was a reason they didnt get DEL licence for 05/06 season) while N-berg werent even selling tickets for upper tier back then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicente (Post 56086139)
It's not like hockey is unpopular in Germany. The attendence average is even higher than in the KHL (Berlin, Cologne, Mannheim, Hamburg have really great numbers). But of course 14,200 in Berlin look lousy compared to 80,000 in Dortmund at a football game. It is a bit problematic that Germany is half way succesful in any team sports... even American Football had 30,000 spectators per game 10 years ago when there was this NFL Europe ting. Handball and Basketball also have like 5,000 fans at every match.:shakehead

Germany is crazy in that department, I think even women field hockey is able to get interesting attendances. Thats why I believe with 1 KHL team, everyone would be happy in Germany, DEL would maintain it´s fanbase and new team could be adopted by whole Germany (like Bayern use to be during their succesfull CL campaigns)


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