HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   National Hockey League Talk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60)
-   -   How about them Caps (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1298609)

Schalkenullvier* 11-27-2012 04:28 PM

How about them Caps
 
What do they need to do to be succesful? Obviously you can just say that they went as far as ever post-lockout with last year's defensive system, but I don't think that is right. In my opinion, they were just as far away from the cup, if not more, as in the boudreau coached free-flowing times. What kind of system will Oates implement? Offensive, defensive, hybrid?

Did they make a (knee-jerk) mistake by trying to get more defensive after the Montreal series in 2010?

Some people will probably say that Ovi was they key to that offensive juggernaut and he's not what he used to be, but he's still a 40 goal guy. Him and Backstrom and Johanson and Laich and especially Ribeiro should make a very dangerous top 6 that should be one of the best scoring units in the league if they are set free to do their thing.

So what do you think, which system is more likely to bring succes to the caps, offensive juggernaut or relentless trapping?

mapes 11-27-2012 04:33 PM

In b4 "more Canadians"

Their problem is they have a bunch of inconsistent players. When they are on, they can compete with the best but Backs and Semin (obv gone now) come and go. Green has been hurt and whatnot, AO has fallen off. They have the talent to compete though

Bleedred 11-27-2012 06:25 PM

Good luck to the Caps, as I have no ill will towards them or disliking at all. Though I myself, and many other Devils fans were not happy for the two years Adam Oates was an assistant for us. Our PP stunk for much of the time, and there was a point where we gave up 12 shorthanded goals early last season in less than two months.

If Ovi can get back to where he was before last year, and Holtby is nearly on the level he was last playoffs, and Oates is decent, I can see them being dominant.

AfroThunder396 11-27-2012 07:16 PM

In my opinion, I honestly think Ovechkin is a bad leader and brings a poor locker room culture to the team.

People think he's a good leader because he's intense and hits people, but that's not what being captain is all about. I think he's got a rock star mentality and is more concerned about being cool and popular than he is about winning.

He's an incredibly talented player but I don't think he has the intangibles to lead his team to a championship.

saskriders 11-27-2012 07:32 PM

Better D and a new captain (Backstrom maybe)

leeaf83 11-27-2012 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 (Post 56077435)
In my opinion, I honestly think Ovechkin is a bad leader and brings a poor locker room culture to the team.

People think he's a good leader because he's intense and hits people, but that's not what being captain is all about. I think he's got a rock star mentality and is more concerned about being cool and popular than he is about winning.

He's an incredibly talented player but I don't think he has the intangibles to lead his team to a championship.


I get that he was under a bigger microscope last year but there was plenty of evidence of him quitting on Boudreau and Hunter. No doubt he dominates when he feels like it but he got caught going through the motions far too much.

Semin is unbelievably soft, I see him getting contained in the playoffs for most of his career.

With Green, it really depends how gutsy the other coach is; plenty put defensive forwards against him but some with guts realize it's a great matchup for their top line due to his poor defense.

jack mullet 11-27-2012 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskriders (Post 56077793)
Better D and a new captain (Backstrom maybe)

taking the "C" off of Ovi is a sure fire way to divide a team. he has the "C", and he will until he is playing on another team.

Kloparren 11-27-2012 08:16 PM

I expect them to become the new Sharks. In fact they already are in a way though last season their regular season performance fell off a bit (just like the Sharks). They're the Eastern conference Sharks when it comes to talent leading to great performances in the season but not enough grit or "intangbiles" or whatever you wanna call it for the playoffs.

Also I found the whole Hamrlik/Brouwer/Neuvirth thing to be hilarious.

Stop Winnin 11-27-2012 09:03 PM

Ovechkin doesn't strike me as a good leader.

That's not to say he doesn't show up in the playoffs, because he's been good in them, I just don't think he's the right guy to lead a team to the promised land if that makes sense.

um 11-27-2012 09:14 PM

people who think ovechkin isn't a good leader probably don't watch the caps very often. ovechkin is by far the best leader on the team, and dont say backstrom or brooks f'ing laich :rolleyes:

Nighthock 11-27-2012 09:17 PM

win ...

hockeydoug 11-27-2012 09:35 PM

With all the recent and previous comments from Caps players about the negotiations and each other, I can't wait to watch that circus show hit the ice.

sobrien 11-27-2012 09:36 PM

....grow? They already have immense talent, and now have Forsberg and Wilson waiting in the wings (literally) to go along with Kuznetsov. Green is still relatively young, as well as Carlson and Alzner, plus their goalies. They SHOULD be one of the top 3 teams in the East soon via prospect growth alone.

MastuhNinks 11-27-2012 09:39 PM

I feel like the Caps could be easily overlooked going into next season, but they have a very strong team. Aside from the obvious juggernauts (Rangers/Pens/Flyers/Bruins), I feel they're the strongest in the East and could be a surprise team in the playoffs. Especially if they somehow convince Kuznetsov to come over. I know '5th strongest in the Conference' isn't a huge compliment, but it's hard to place them above those other teams.

WarriorOfGandhi 11-27-2012 10:05 PM

the Caps, in my opinion, are a team that have all their best players peaking at the wrong time. Their best forwards are older than their best defensemen who are older than their goalies. By the time their goalies and defensemen are in their primes, their forwards will have peaked (it looks like AO and possibly Backstrom already have). If AO and Backs were 18 instead of 25, the Caps would have a consistent playoff team now and a sure contender in 3-5 years. Instead it looks like they blew their load in 2009 and will just spin their wheels for awhile longer.

Kershaw 11-27-2012 10:07 PM

Get rid of Ovechkin and replace him with a superstar center or defender. 9.8 for a 60-70pt forward is very bad for the cap. As long as that albatross is there for 9 more yrs, Caps will continue to be mediocre.

caps4cup 11-27-2012 10:13 PM

I'd say the Canadiens playoff series had a lot to do with it. They were so dominant that whole year, and even against Montreal although they lost. But they had Theodore in net most of the year, and a defensive core consisting of Green, Morrisonn, Poti, Schultz, Erskine, and Sloan. Everyone said it was the way they played that caused all the goals against. But look at their goalies and D core. It obviously wasn't their style that caused the goals against. Theodore sucked and stil does. Three of the above Defensemen are currently not full time players in the NHL. Another (Schultz), shouldn't be, but is because he was signed to a 3mil contract. And Poti was a #4 at best and is or probably will retire due to injuries.

They could easily play that run and gun style with Holtby, Green, Alzner, Carlson, Orlov, Schultz (ugh...), and Hamrlik.

Now I'm not saying that this style works for everyone, but the Caps had and I believe still do, the right personnel to play a mostly offensive orientated game. They were so dominant playing that way. Other players said they feared being blown off the rink when they were playing against the Caps (can't find the source, but it was some player...).

Sometimes you just get unlucky or the other team gets a God-like performance (Halak) and you lose. But they panicked because it was 3 straight years of playoff disappointment. And now its been 2 straight years after of the same old same old, just much more boring games to watch for the fans, and to play for the players.

The sad thing is if Halak wasn't so amazing that series, the Caps easily could've put up Philly-like offensive numbers against the Pens, with about a third of the goals against. And this thread probably wouldn't exist right now if they would've won that series. Oh well, just hoping that Oates lets the team be creative and play offense again. They're not gonna win unless they play towards the strength of the team.

WingedWheel1987 11-27-2012 10:26 PM

I really don't know what more they can do. Nothing they do turns into a trip to the Finals. I find it hard to believe the core isn't good enough. You could argue that they simply go from one extreme to another so it just creates another problem that they aren't built to overcome.

The defense first mantra is the right way to go but they still end up losing 2-1 instead of 5-4. I think Washington really needs to find the right coach. They have yet to find that and I don't know who the right guy is. The core is still very young so fortunately they haven't squandered a chance at a cup with the current team. I really believe a good coach is the missing link that will fit the pieces together. I don't know if Adam Oates is the right guy. Hopefully he is.

I am a fan of Detroit, but i always support Washington during their playoffs if they aren't facing Detroit. Unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised if Ovy ends his career cupless. Sone players just don't get the breaks or are missing that one player that never arrives.

Jules Winnfield 11-28-2012 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietCompany (Post 56078801)

Also I found the whole Hamrlik/Brouwer/Neuvirth thing to be hilarious.

Can someone recap this?

gifted88 11-28-2012 07:45 AM

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=636123

"He said he hopes to bring a style to the Caps similar to that used by the Devils and Kings."

irunthepeg 11-28-2012 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caps4cup (Post 56081673)
I'd say the Canadiens playoff series had a lot to do with it. They were so dominant that whole year, and even against Montreal although they lost. But they had Theodore in net most of the year, and a defensive core consisting of Green, Morrisonn, Poti, Schultz, Erskine, and Sloan. Everyone said it was the way they played that caused all the goals against. But look at their goalies and D core. It obviously wasn't their style that caused the goals against. Theodore sucked and stil does. Three of the above Defensemen are currently not full time players in the NHL. Another (Schultz), shouldn't be, but is because he was signed to a 3mil contract. And Poti was a #4 at best and is or probably will retire due to injuries.

They could easily play that run and gun style with Holtby, Green, Alzner, Carlson, Orlov, Schultz (ugh...), and Hamrlik.

Now I'm not saying that this style works for everyone, but the Caps had and I believe still do, the right personnel to play a mostly offensive orientated game. They were so dominant playing that way. Other players said they feared being blown off the rink when they were playing against the Caps (can't find the source, but it was some player...).

Sometimes you just get unlucky or the other team gets a God-like performance (Halak) and you lose. But they panicked because it was 3 straight years of playoff disappointment. And now its been 2 straight years after of the same old same old, just much more boring games to watch for the fans, and to play for the players.

The sad thing is if Halak wasn't so amazing that series, the Caps easily could've put up Philly-like offensive numbers against the Pens, with about a third of the goals against. And this thread probably wouldn't exist right now if they would've won that series. Oh well, just hoping that Oates lets the team be creative and play offense again. They're not gonna win unless they play towards the strength of the team.

That last line is exactly how I feel. They're built to be offensive-oriented. The thing is all they needed is a bit more consistency from everyone and they would have beat the Habs. They just have to find exploits when facing defensive systems and make sure their offense is better than their opponent's defense (seems kind of obvious, but I seriously think they could make it work).

As said, I don't think Ovechkin will lose the C unless they're trading him now but I think making him captain was the wrong choice. Let him play his offensive game and have some other guy be the leader.

Lshap 11-28-2012 09:30 AM

As with most talented teams, there's no magical fix to take them to the top. They have the right pieces, they just need the usual brew of chemistry and luck to bounce them to a Cup final, plus two big X-factors.

As far as Ovi, there are different styles of leaders. Ovi leads by example -- intense, prideful, aggressive example. No need to change captains. With Backstrom, Laich, Ribiero and character guys like Chimera, Brouwer and Ward, the Caps have enough leaders by example and enough offensive depth.

The X-factors are Goalie and Coach. Holtby became my favourite player in the playoffs and I'd love to see the kid become a steady, top-10 goalie. As we've seen, the right guy in nets can carry you far. All Washington needs now is a coach who bridges the gap between Boudreau's fire-at-will strategy and Hunter's defensive-shelling. If Oates can shut down the other team without shutting down his own, they'll go far.

fedfed 11-28-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskriders (Post 56077793)
Better D and a new captain (Backstrom maybe)

Dale Hunter and Bruce Boudreau thought so, but the reality is that you need to trade pretty much the whole team to make it work. If they start to play "all D" like in the last two years, their offense suffers.

mapes 11-28-2012 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 56081545)
Get rid of Ovechkin and replace him with a superstar center or defender. 9.8 for a 60-70pt forward is very bad for the cap. As long as that albatross is there for 9 more yrs, Caps will continue to be mediocre.

Not sure if serious..

Bourne Endeavor 11-28-2012 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caps4cup (Post 56081673)
I'd say the Canadiens playoff series had a lot to do with it. They were so dominant that whole year, and even against Montreal although they lost. But they had Theodore in net most of the year, and a defensive core consisting of Green, Morrisonn, Poti, Schultz, Erskine, and Sloan. Everyone said it was the way they played that caused all the goals against. But look at their goalies and D core. It obviously wasn't their style that caused the goals against. Theodore sucked and stil does. Three of the above Defensemen are currently not full time players in the NHL. Another (Schultz), shouldn't be, but is because he was signed to a 3mil contract. And Poti was a #4 at best and is or probably will retire due to injuries.

They could easily play that run and gun style with Holtby, Green, Alzner, Carlson, Orlov, Schultz (ugh...), and Hamrlik.

Now I'm not saying that this style works for everyone, but the Caps had and I believe still do, the right personnel to play a mostly offensive orientated game. They were so dominant playing that way. Other players said they feared being blown off the rink when they were playing against the Caps (can't find the source, but it was some player...).

Sometimes you just get unlucky or the other team gets a God-like performance (Halak) and you lose. But they panicked because it was 3 straight years of playoff disappointment. And now its been 2 straight years after of the same old same old, just much more boring games to watch for the fans, and to play for the players.

The sad thing is if Halak wasn't so amazing that series, the Caps easily could've put up Philly-like offensive numbers against the Pens, with about a third of the goals against. And this thread probably wouldn't exist right now if they would've won that series. Oh well, just hoping that Oates lets the team be creative and play offense again. They're not gonna win unless they play towards the strength of the team.

I have been saying this since the Montreal series. For whatever reason, Washington seems to have lost all confidence. Never before have I witnessed a team so abruptly overhaul their entire identity into some pseudo-hybrid that frankly, isn't one at all. Halak's god showing utterly crushed him. You could see it by their response. So many times the Caps, in particular Ovie and Semin, rocketed the puck in damn near disbelief they could not score.

Montreal beat them by capitalizing on frustration and exposing the holes in both their style and defense. An "run 'n' gun" team will allow a significantly higher ratio of goals against, sometimes burning themselves but the lack of consistency is what did them in. Vancouver is not without comparison. "Run 'n' gun" simply has easily exploitable holes if you aren't consistent.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:35 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.