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-   -   Owner-Player meeting only, no Bettman or Fehr (UPD: 12/4 in NYC) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1299457)

echlfreak 11-29-2012 05:39 PM

Owner-Player meeting only, no Bettman or Fehr (UPD: 12/4 in NYC)
 
NHL proposes that the OWNERS only and the PLAYERS only meet and try to figure out a solution.

Thoughts?

Scurr 11-29-2012 05:44 PM

If the league is willing to get all the owners involved and take their muzzles off, it's worth a try. If the league is going to let their handful of hardliners do all the talking, they aren't going to offer anything the players haven't heard before.

echlfreak 11-29-2012 05:45 PM

It sounds like a good idea!?!? Only if ANY player and ANY owner can attend. If only Jacobs and regular 5 owners are allowed in attendance and not the Nashville's or Columbus' of the league then this is just a ploy by the owners to try and convince the players of the same things that Bettman has.



Is it just me or is this not how a decertified union would work?

Fugu 11-29-2012 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echlfreak (Post 56125095)
It sounds like a good idea!?!? Only if ANY player and ANY owner can attend. If only Jacobs and regular 5 owners are allowed in attendance and not the Nashville's or Columbus' of the league then this is just a ploy by the owners to try and convince the players of the same things that Bettman has.



Is it just me or is this not how a decertified union would work?

It's just you. The owners become competitors in the eyes of the law and cannot appear to be acting in concert.

sixgunsdad 11-29-2012 05:53 PM

As a fan I would love to see it happen.
As n ex-union rep. no way in hell would I let that happen

echlfreak 11-29-2012 05:54 PM

what about in terms of directly dealing with the owners without representation?


How about this as a proposal...if the players and owners can come to an agreement in the next few days. The combined cost of DF and GB salaries be given back to the fans...$11.5M. In the form of ticket discounts?

sixgunsdad 11-29-2012 05:57 PM

Edit: What I might consider prior to taking any legal action is put the last owners offer to a full membership vote. But prior to voting allow a 72 hr. Q&A period

Steve 11-29-2012 06:14 PM

Can't hurt. I think the owners have the advantage here, they understand the business side a million times better than the players, however, good idea none-the-less.

Lets just hope it's not all the hard liners, on either side.

LadyStanley 11-29-2012 06:18 PM

brodiebrazilCSN: Report says players and owners could hold a bargaining session without union/league leaders present. I say bring in the HBO cameras! 3:21pm, Nov 29 from TweetDeck

KKurzCSN: @brodiebrazilCSN Might be more suitable for C-Span at this point. 4:16pm, Nov 29 from Twitter for Mac

Crease 11-29-2012 06:25 PM

Methinks Bettman believes the Fehr Bro's are the glue that keeps the NHLPA together and without them in the room, the owners can get the players to think on the League's terms.

ScottyBowman 11-29-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 56125899)
Methinks Bettman believes the Fehr Bro's are the glue that keeps the NHLPA together and without them in the room, the owners can get the players to think on the League's terms.

Yup. This is nothing more than a sneak attack. The players would be fools to attend. As long as Greedy Jacobs thinks he can take his billions to the after life, then its a waste of time.

blasted_Sabre 11-29-2012 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 56125899)
Methinks Bettman believes the Fehr Bro's are the glue that keeps the NHLPA together and without them in the room, the owners can get the players to think on the League's terms.

Yep, pretty much.

It does present an interesting problem for Fehr. I highly doubt hes in favour of it. However if the players want to do it, what can he say? Possible he'd resign?

metalfoot 11-29-2012 06:42 PM

I'm noticing a shift of demonization away from Bettman and toward Jacobs lately. But yeah. If the owners were, say, Melnyk, Chipman/Thompson, etc, that'd be one thing. If Jacobs is one of the owners it would only go to hell in a handbasket. Not even a pretty handbasket.

IBleedUnionBlue 11-29-2012 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echlfreak (Post 56124961)
NHL proposes that the OWNERS only and the PLAYERS only meet and try to figure out a solution.

Thoughts?

And get Jacobs out of the room also.

echlfreak 11-29-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 56125899)
Methinks Bettman believes the Fehr Bro's are the glue that keeps the NHLPA together and without them in the room, the owners can get the players to think on the League's terms.


That is the exact tactic that the owners are trying to use against the NHLPA..is to divide them against Don/Steve Fehr. The NHL truly believes that the players are not getting all the facts from DF. What the owners fail to remember is that in more than half of the bargaining sessions ACTUAL players are present...Malhotra, Hainsey, Parros, Westgarth etc...and none of these players have reported to the other players or media that they are getting anything but the truth from DF.

The owners knowledge of business and the economics of the game vastly outscores that of the players. The players are completely outmatched. From the players perspective the goal of the meeting should not be to outsmart the owners but more so to show absolute and unwavering unity.

This meeting is strictly about diving the union...nothing else!

From the players perspective the best strategy would be to enter this meeting with specific talking points and direction and then have a disclaimer served as the dessert! They could have all their questions answered and show absolute solidarity with the disclaimer!

CpatainCanuck 11-29-2012 06:47 PM

Such a scenario would be a major advantage to the owners side. Let's face facts: the owners are, to a man, savvy businessmen who understand money if nothing else. The average player has a highschool level understanding of the business world.

CpatainCanuck 11-29-2012 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echlfreak (Post 56126321)
That is the exact tactic that the owners are trying to use against the NHLPA..is to divide them against Don/Steve Fehr. The NHL truly believes that the players are not getting all the facts from DF. What the owners fail to remember is that in more than half of the bargaining sessions ACTUAL players are present...Malhotra, Hainsey, Parros, Westgarth etc...and none of these players have reported to the other players or media that they are getting anything but the truth from DF.

The owners knowledge of business and the economics of the game vastly outscores that of the players. The players are completely outmatched. From the players perspective the goal of the meeting should not be to outsmart the owners but more so to show absolute and unwavering unity.

This meeting is strictly about diving the union...nothing else!

From the players perspective the best strategy would be to enter this meeting with specific talking points and direction and then have a disclaimer served as the dessert! They could have all their questions answered and show absolute solidarity with the disclaimer!

To simplify you're lengthy post: the players don't have a clue about the business side of the game. Their best bet in an owners/players meeting would be to link arms, plug ears and sing the union march, because any attempt to actually negotiate would just show their utter incompetence.

Riptide 11-29-2012 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echlfreak (Post 56126321)
That is the exact tactic that the owners are trying to use against the NHLPA..is to divide them against Don/Steve Fehr. The NHL truly believes that the players are not getting all the facts from DF. What the owners fail to remember is that in more than half of the bargaining sessions ACTUAL players are present...Malhotra, Hainsey, Parros, Westgarth etc...and none of these players have reported to the other players or media that they are getting anything but the truth from DF.

Then there's DF's spin on the truth. Go read some of his memo's to the PA. One of the ones that sticks to my mind was something along the lines of "the NHL offered to make whole, but they don't really make whole" - without explaining why exactly they didn't really make whole.

The other thing is you do not know how involved those players are, and whether they're simply puppets to DF or not. I don't know them, nor am I there, so I don't have a clue. But it all depends on the individual and how much of the kool-aid they've had. Then you have all the stars backing DF (you know, all those guys who stand to potentially lose big on their massive deals), which could be intimidating to some guys... well Crosby, Ovie, etc all support DF's plan... I should to. It really makes you wonder how united some of the players really are (3rd/4th liners, 4-6 dmen, older guys who only have a few years left, etc).

jimmycrackcorn 11-29-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck (Post 56126411)
Such a scenario would be a major advantage to the owners side. Let's face facts: the owners are, to a man, savvy businessmen who understand money if nothing else. The average player has a highschool level understanding of the business world.

Precisely. And that is why Fehr would never agree to this. It also explains why these players seem so eager to throw away their money (i.e. their salary for this year that will be gone forever...)

Dellstrom 11-29-2012 06:59 PM

As long as they're meeting. :dunno:

Kane One 11-29-2012 07:42 PM

This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I ever heard. I mean.. one great thing about a union is that you have a businessman negotiating for you. Has the PA responded to this yet? If so, if they didn't say no, then they are clueless.

tko78 11-29-2012 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 56127723)
This is one of the most ridiculous ideas I ever heard. I mean.. one great thing about a union is that you have a businessman negotiating for you. Has the PA responded to this yet? If so, if they didn't say no, then they are clueless.

This... absolutely this.

No offence to the players, but why on earth would you, as a person who has focused on playing hockey for your entire life, agree to go and negotiate with an owner, who has presumably focused on business his entire life?

This is why people hire lawyers and union reps; because if you're not savvy enough to do it yourself, you should at least be savvy enough to hire the right person to do it for you.

Soundwave 11-29-2012 07:47 PM

Fehr won't allow this, I'm pretty sure of it.

Even if the the players/owners could come to some consensus, Fehr would poison the well by ripping the offer apart.

If there's a deal to be made, it has to look like Fehr was a driving force behind it IMO. Otherwise he can't save face from this situation, the guy did not come out of retirement to just let the owners/players come to an agreement with him sitting on the sidelines.

Phelan 11-29-2012 07:50 PM

The owners can make guarantees to the players face to face, and Fehr can make sure that the CBA backs up these guarantees.

sparkychewbarky 11-29-2012 07:54 PM

Nice try, Gary...You think Fehr's a fool?


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