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-   -   Value of: Miikka Kiprusoff (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1299681)

Flames rebuilder 11-30-2012 12:16 PM

Miikka Kiprusoff
 
One year left, with a cap hit of 5.8 and an actual of 1.5. Still puts up very solid numbers, what would other teams be willing to give.

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder (Post 56140127)
One year left, with a cap hit of 5.8 and an actual of 1.5. Still puts up very solid numbers, what would other teams be willing to give.

As a Flames fan, it would be easier if you'd start with what you would take....we'd work from there.

Flames rebuilder 11-30-2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 56140295)
As a Flames fan, it would be easier if you'd start with what you would take....we'd work from there.

If the flames move Kipper, it would signal the beginning of the rebuild, so picks, prospects and young players.

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder (Post 56140359)
If the flames move Kipper, it would signal the beginning of the rebuild, so picks, prospects and young players.

The Leafs, for obvious reasons, would be interested, but if it's our 1st plus....probably lean towards Luongo.

Cheddabombs 11-30-2012 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 56140383)
The Leafs, for obvious reasons, would be interested, but if it's our 1st plus....probably lean towards Luongo.

Really? Kipper isnt exactly a young gun anymore and while he does probably have a few more good seasons ahead of him I'd have to think the Leafs aren't going to trade away future assets for an aging goalie.

The first team that comes to mind if Kipper is going to be dealt would be the Blackhawks. A team built to contend, just a solid goalie away from becoming probably one of the favourites for the cup. I dont know the Blackhawks well enough to shoot up an offer, and my analysis of their need for Kipper could be wrong but that's just an outsiders' perspective.

Maybe something along the lines of McNeil + 1st for Kipper or Saad + 2nd? I really dont know their prospects well enough so Im probably off.

Flames rebuilder 11-30-2012 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 56140383)
The Leafs, for obvious reasons, would be interested, but if it's our 1st plus....probably lean towards Luongo.

The leafs have a few interesting prospects, Biggs, Blacker, Colborne to name a few.

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder (Post 56140947)
The leafs have a few interesting prospects, Biggs, Blacker, Colborne to name a few.

Could work something here.

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheddabombs (Post 56140929)
Really? Kipper isnt exactly a young gun anymore and while he does probably have a few more good seasons ahead of him I'd have to think the Leafs aren't going to trade away future assets for an aging goalie.

The first team that comes to mind if Kipper is going to be dealt would be the Blackhawks. A team built to contend, just a solid goalie away from becoming probably one of the favourites for the cup. I dont know the Blackhawks well enough to shoot up an offer, and my analysis of their need for Kipper could be wrong but that's just an outsiders' perspective.

Maybe something along the lines of McNeil + 1st for Kipper or Saad + 2nd? I really dont know their prospects well enough so Im probably off.

A short term vet is exactly what the Leafs need right now. Someone to give stability in goal and mentor our young guys.

Flames rebuilder 11-30-2012 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheddabombs (Post 56140929)
Really? Kipper isnt exactly a young gun anymore and while he does probably have a few more good seasons ahead of him I'd have to think the Leafs aren't going to trade away future assets for an aging goalie.

The first team that comes to mind if Kipper is going to be dealt would be the Blackhawks. A team built to contend, just a solid goalie away from becoming probably one of the favourites for the cup. I dont know the Blackhawks well enough to shoot up an offer, and my analysis of their need for Kipper could be wrong but that's just an outsiders' perspective.

Maybe something along the lines of McNeil + 1st for Kipper or Saad + 2nd? I really dont know their prospects well enough so Im probably off.

McNeil+1st sounds pretty good, really liked his game in the super series, might need a little more though. Don't think the hawks would consider Saad.

SmellOfVictory 11-30-2012 01:08 PM

How about just the Leafs' 1st? I'd expect it to land in the middle of the round (although if we're talking full lottery they'd have three balls).

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory (Post 56141237)
How about just the Leafs' 1st? I'd expect it to land in the middle of the round (although if we're talking full lottery they'd have three balls).

Lottery won't be an issue, that would mean the season was canceled thus no trades would happen.

Cheddabombs 11-30-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 56141033)
A short term vet is exactly what the Leafs need right now. Someone to give stability in goal and mentor our young guys.

I get that but at the same time Kipper is no slouch and will command a hefty price. Is that something the Leafs would want to take on for really only 1 guaranteed year of service? Given the big price tag on Kipper I'd think the Leafs would be better suited using those assets elsewhere.

At this point it's safe to rule out this season from happening IMO so looking at next years' UFA goalie corp there are a few vets that could be had for mentorship purposes without giving up the amount of assets needed to snag Kipper (Mason, Boucher, Theodore, plus others that have a smaller chance of hitting the market like Backstrom).

InfinityIggy 11-30-2012 01:14 PM

Kipper is still a fantastic goalie and id be so sad to see him go.

Having said that. He is 36 years old, he only has MAX 4 years left, more likely 3.

Of those, how many will be in that "top-10 goalie range"? Maybe 2? He also has a fairly large cap hit, meaning wherever he goes, we will likely see salary coming back.

So with all the considered im going to play off the Toronto dialog so far in this thread:

To Toronto:

Kiprusoff
Nemisz

To Calgary:

Colborne
Reimer
2nd 2014
Conditional 2014 3rd (Toronto makes it to and past, the 1st round of the playoffs).

Toronto gets their goalie, and a good NHL ready wing prospect in Nemisz (should be a great 3rd liner, good on the PK).

Calgary gets a great young C prospect in Colborne and Reimer to compete with Irving and Ramo for starter.

Calgary also gets a 2nd rounder, which will likely land in the 40-50 range, depending on just how well Toronto does next year.

Edited: Added conditional.

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheddabombs (Post 56141393)
I get that but at the same time Kipper is no slouch and will command a hefty price. Is that something the Leafs would want to take on for really only 1 guaranteed year of service? Given the big price tag on Kipper I'd think the Leafs would be better suited using those assets elsewhere.

At this point it's safe to rule out this season from happening IMO so looking at next years' UFA goalie corp there are a few vets that could be had for mentorship purposes without giving up the amount of assets needed to snag Kipper (Mason, Boucher, Theodore, plus others that have a smaller chance of hitting the market like Backstrom).

I agree...thats why i said if the demands are close...i go with Luongo.

SmellOfVictory 11-30-2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 56141305)
Lottery won't be an issue, that would mean the season was canceled thus no trades would happen.

If the season was cancelled but a new CBA had been signed, presumably they'd be able to make trades though, non?

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellOfVictory (Post 56141451)
If the season was cancelled but a new CBA had been signed, presumably they'd be able to make trades though, non?

This is true, however, i think if the season is canceled we are in for a long haul to get a deal done...off topic though.

seafoam 11-30-2012 01:23 PM

This is so far-fetched but if Nabokov retires or leaves, I can see the Isles having interest. The salary to cap hit ratio is right up Garth/Wangs alley.

Flames rebuilder 11-30-2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 56141429)
Kipper is still a fantastic goalie and id be so sad to see him go.

Having said that. He is 36 years old, he only has MAX 4 years left, more likely 3.

Of those, how many will be in that "top-10 goalie range"? Maybe 2? He also has a fairly large cap hit, meaning wherever he goes, we will likely see salary coming back.

So with all the considered im going to play off the Toronto dialog so far in this thread:

To Toronto:

Kiprusoff
Nemisz

To Calgary:

Colborne
Reimer
2nd 2014
Conditional 2014 3rd (Toronto makes it to and past, the 1st round of the playoffs).

Toronto gets their goalie, and a good NHL ready wing prospect in Nemisz (should be a great 3rd liner, good on the PK).

Calgary gets a great young C prospect in Colborne and Reimer to compete with Irving and Ramo for starter.

Calgary also gets a 2nd rounder, which will likely land in the 40-50 range, depending on just how well Toronto does next year.

Edited: Added conditional.

Ouch, that's brutal! Take out Nemisz and it's close but not interested in quantity for quality.

ACC1224 11-30-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 56141033)
A short term vet is exactly what the Leafs need right now. Someone to give stability in goal and mentor our young guys.

Absolutely, much better option than Luongo

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 56141429)
Kipper is still a fantastic goalie and id be so sad to see him go.

Having said that. He is 36 years old, he only has MAX 4 years left, more likely 3.

Of those, how many will be in that "top-10 goalie range"? Maybe 2? He also has a fairly large cap hit, meaning wherever he goes, we will likely see salary coming back.

So with all the considered im going to play off the Toronto dialog so far in this thread:

To Toronto:

Kiprusoff
Nemisz

To Calgary:

Colborne
Reimer
2nd 2014
Conditional 2014 3rd (Toronto makes it to and past, the 1st round of the playoffs).

Toronto gets their goalie, and a good NHL ready wing prospect in Nemisz (should be a great 3rd liner, good on the PK).

Calgary gets a great young C prospect in Colborne and Reimer to compete with Irving and Ramo for starter.

Calgary also gets a 2nd rounder, which will likely land in the 40-50 range, depending on just how well Toronto does next year.

Edited: Added conditional.

I think the Leafs would be all over this.

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder (Post 56141681)
Ouch, that's brutal! Take out Nemisz and it's close but not interested in quantity for quality.

Ok, so Nemisz is out and remove 1 of the picks on TO's side?

Backlund 11-30-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 56141429)
Kipper is still a fantastic goalie and id be so sad to see him go.

Having said that. He is 36 years old, he only has MAX 4 years left, more likely 3.

Of those, how many will be in that "top-10 goalie range"? Maybe 2? He also has a fairly large cap hit, meaning wherever he goes, we will likely see salary coming back.

So with all the considered im going to play off the Toronto dialog so far in this thread:

To Toronto:

Kiprusoff
Nemisz

To Calgary:

Colborne
Reimer
2nd 2014
Conditional 2014 3rd (Toronto makes it to and past, the 1st round of the playoffs).

Toronto gets their goalie, and a good NHL ready wing prospect in Nemisz (should be a great 3rd liner, good on the PK).

Calgary gets a great young C prospect in Colborne and Reimer to compete with Irving and Ramo for starter.

Calgary also gets a 2nd rounder, which will likely land in the 40-50 range, depending on just how well Toronto does next year.

Edited: Added conditional.


Not a fan of this proposal.

Gary83* 11-30-2012 01:38 PM

Calgary can do so much better then returning a player like Reimer or Colborne in a deal for Kipper. I know a Flames fan suggested that but get off the Toronto hype train. Colborne still has alot of his game that needs to be worked on/put together before he's in the NHL.

InfinityIggy 11-30-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backlund (Post 56141875)
Not a fan of this proposal.

I figured most Flames fan wouldn't be jumping out of their pants for my proposal.

We need to be realistic about Kippers value though. He is not going to bring back a blue-chip prospect, or a high level 1st. Maybe if this is the 2014 trade deadline, Toronto would include their 1st (if they are in playoff range)? There will also only be a handful of teams looking for a goalie like Kipper.

My trade was more based around an off-season situation.

The other factor we could modify is Reimer, I included him to keep goalie levels on both teams even, maybe Reimer would be a great backup behind Kipper though, and Toronto would be more interested in moving a skater. Possibly Jesse Blacker or Nazem Kadri?

So:

Kipper

For:

Colborne
Kadri/Blacker
Cond. 3rd

How about that? Certainly helps Calgary's cupboard.

ACC1224 11-30-2012 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary83 (Post 56141977)
Calgary can do so much better then returning a player like Reimer or Colborne in a deal for Kipper. I know a Flames fan suggested that but get off the Toronto hype train. Colborne still has alot of his game that needs to be worked on/put together before he's in the NHL.

:laugh: Does such a thing exist?

Liferleafer 11-30-2012 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 56142131)
I figured most Flames fan wouldn't be jumping out of their pants for my proposal.

We need to be realistic about Kippers value though. He is not going to bring back a blue-chip prospect, or a high level 1st. Maybe if this is the 2014 trade deadline, Toronto would include their 1st (if they are in playoff range)? There will also only be a handful of teams looking for a goalie like Kipper.

My trade was more based around an off-season situation.

The other factor we could modify is Reimer, I included him to keep goalie levels on both teams even, maybe Reimer would be a great backup behind Kipper though, and Toronto would be more interested in moving a skater. Possibly Jesse Blacker or Nazem Kadri?

So:

Kipper

For:

Colborne
Kadri/Blacker
Cond. 3rd
How about that? Certainly helps Calgary's cupboard.

Yup. 3rd doesn't need to be conditional.


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