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-   -   NHL Lockout Thread X: The Leadership Has Left the Building (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1299759)

ColePens 11-30-2012 01:24 PM

NHL Lockout Thread X: The Leadership Has Left the Building
 
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HockeyFan100 11-30-2012 01:25 PM

I want hockey back.

PensFanSince1989 11-30-2012 01:28 PM

One thing I've noticed is some of the people that argue dominantly from the PA perspective and defend their proposals also support contraction.

All of the PA proposals basically prohibit contraction from being a feasible option in the future.

deytookerjaabs 11-30-2012 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samzilla (Post 56142681)
This must be news to Campoli.

Why, because when someone is willing to walk away out of principle that is somehow not a human reaction to the situation? Do folks like yourself ever do anything out of principle, even when it hurts your bottom line? I've walked off of jobs because of things which, on an individual basis may seem trivial, but when added in with all the other garbage such things simply forced me to draw a line and act out of principle. Yes, the players are incredibly lucky and refuse to see it but at the same time they're sick of their contracts being the owners only scapegoat for league success, over, and over again. I can understand being frustrated to the point where I'd say **** it and play for some obscure European team for less money, and let the NHL rejuvenate itself without me.

CN_paladin 11-30-2012 01:29 PM

I wish it was Cole or Gorges instead of Pacioretty that lost the house because of mortgage nonpayment. If more players lose their properties, then yeah we might see less stalling from Fehr.

Huntershin Karuk 11-30-2012 01:35 PM

I'm going to go to Hawaii for a week and a half, get very drunk every day and when I come back this had better be resolved.

StevensCakeBakerBacker 11-30-2012 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CN_paladin (Post 56143279)
I wish it was Cole or Gorges instead of Pacioretty that lost the house because of mortgage nonpayment. If more players lose their properties, then yeah we might see less stalling from Fehr.

Right or wrong, the owners have way more negotiating power because they literally do not need the players. The NHL is a play-thing to the owners, while the NHL is the greatest source of income to the players.

Regardless of what one considers right or wrong regarding the sides involved in this lockout, the owners will NOT lose. If the season gets cancelled players will have lost more in one year than they would have gained their entire career by getting the CBA they felt was favorable to them.

scott99 11-30-2012 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDK (Post 56143393)
I'm going to go to Hawaii for a week and a half, get very drunk every day and when I come back this had better be resolved.

I dislike you, only because you get to go to Hawaii for a week and a half and forget this nonsense.

Kaoz 11-30-2012 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 (Post 56143231)
One thing I've noticed is some of the people that argue dominantly from the PA perspective and defend their proposals also support contraction.

All of the PA proposals basically prohibit contraction from being a feasible option in the future.

Contraction equals lost jobs. That's the last thing players want.

Others suggest moving teams around, such as out of Phoenix and back to Quebec. Problem there is moving teams out of the states and back to Canada doesn't really help you in landing those massive TV contracts. You want those markets to succeed if you're both an owner and a player as it means more money for you in the short and long term.

As fans however, there is really nothing forcing us to be realistic. More money for my favorite players yay!!!

Stewie Griffin 11-30-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CN_paladin (Post 56143279)
I wish it was Cole or Gorges instead of Pacioretty that lost the house because of mortgage nonpayment. If more players lose their properties, then yeah we might see less stalling from Fehr.

I don't think it was a non-payment or that he's losing his house.

From what I read there was some renovation work done, Pacioretty couldn't pay (or wished to defer payment to) the contractor for the work, and a mortgage would be a way to guarantee the contractor would be paid the money owed.

Prongo 11-30-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 (Post 56143145)
I want hockey back.

Really is killing me. I don't understand how they just let the fans sit in peril here while they ***** back and forth.

Fair deal for both sides, and get these men back on the ice. All that is needed. PLEASE!

Samzilla 11-30-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs (Post 56143255)
Why, because when someone is willing to walk away out of principle that is somehow not a human reaction to the situation? Do folks like yourself ever do anything out of principle, even when it hurts your bottom line? I've walked off of jobs because of things which, on an individual basis may seem trivial, but when added in with all the other garbage such things simply forced me to draw a line and act out of principle. Yes, the players are incredibly lucky and refuse to see it but at the same time they're sick of their contracts being the owners only scapegoat for league success, over, and over again. I can understand being frustrated to the point where I'd say **** it and play for some obscure European team for less money, and let the NHL rejuvenate itself without me.

You clearly missed the joke. Womp womp. Campoli's a hardliner and advocates other players giving up their wages when he's not losing anything. He doesn't have a contract. Easy for Campoli to say, "hey guys, get behind me!"

Joke's on him though, because if it's correct that players without a contract are SOL, he will get absolutely nothing out of an anti-trust lawsuit should the NHLPA actually decertify.

The fact that so many people are buying into the NHLPA's woe-is-me PR campaign is surprising. Right, this is some grand gesture of principle to fight for the little guy. Even the 13th forward on a team, if he's not a total idiot with money, is a multi-millionaire. The athletes in this day and age who are the ones truly getting ripped off are the college athletes.

HH 11-30-2012 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samzilla (Post 56143709)
You clearly missed the joke. Womp womp. Campoli's a hardliner and advocates other players giving up their jobs/wages when he's not losing anything...he doesn't have a damnn contract. So it's easy for Campoli to say, "hey guys, get behind me!"

Same with Mathieu Darche.:laugh:

NickyMaz 11-30-2012 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaoz (Post 56143655)
Contraction equals lost jobs. That's the last thing players want.

Others suggest moving teams around, such as out of Phoenix and back to Quebec. Problem there is moving teams out of the states and back to Canada doesn't really help you in landing those massive TV contracts. You want those markets to succeed if you're both an owner and a player as it means more money for you in the short and long term.

As fans however, there is really nothing forcing us to be realistic. More money for my favorite players yay!!!

Yes, the PA's stance has pretty much been 'screw the health of the league and give us more money.' They need a healthy league with healthy franchises to employ their players. Contraction means fewer guys making NHL money, if anything they should be fighting for expansion of the league.

Kopistar 11-30-2012 01:50 PM

@MattBarnaby3636: Talked to a player today on owners meeting players. Response was "another waste of time. Attempt to break up union again."

aka, we don't know anything about negotiating and we just let Fehr do it all for us.

KingsFan7824 11-30-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs (Post 56143255)
Why, because when someone is willing to walk away out of principle that is somehow not a human reaction to the situation? Do folks like yourself ever do anything out of principle, even when it hurts your bottom line? I've walked off of jobs because of things which, on an individual basis may seem trivial, but when added in with all the other garbage such things simply forced me to draw a line and act out of principle. Yes, the players are incredibly lucky and refuse to see it but at the same time they're sick of their contracts being the owners only scapegoat for league success, over, and over again. I can understand being frustrated to the point where I'd say **** it and play for some obscure European team for less money, and let the NHL rejuvenate itself without me.

But players were still signing in the NHL when their contracts were up.

A more principled stand might be, for example, in the middle of the previous CBA, after getting screwed in 04-05 and before letting the owners screw them in 12-13, instead of signing some big money contract with an NHL owner and being involved in the same league as Bettman, you sign with some obscure European team for less money. That would send a message.

the_fan 11-30-2012 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 (Post 56143145)
I want hockey back.

And I want to wake up tomorrow morning with couple of million dollars under my pillow. Good luck to both of us.

deytookerjaabs 11-30-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
For players with exisiting contracts, a decrtification could enable them to sue for lost games. Im assuming the existing contracts are valid. Interesting question is the protection of those contracts going forward. No union, guarantee clause would be in serious question IMO. Players w/o contracts would be SOL.
Quote:

This must be news to Campoli.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samzilla (Post 56143709)
You clearly missed the joke. Womp womp. Campoli's a hardliner and advocates other players giving up their jobs/wages when he's not losing anything...he doesn't have a damnn contract. So it's easy for Campoli to say, "hey guys, get behind me!"

I thought the joke implied that he now has no chance of getting a contract and is therefore ****ing himself, which is a weak interpretation. I don't think his actions as a hardliner are simply based on his personal situation. I think he actually is frustrated to the point of no return even if it is easier for him when he has literally nothing, at the moment, to walk away from. That said, I still stand by my statement regarding the PA acting out to principle.

deytookerjaabs 11-30-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 (Post 56143883)
But players were still signing in the NHL when their contracts were up.

A more principled stand might be, for example, in the middle of the previous CBA, after getting screwed in 04-05 and before letting the owners screw them in 12-13, instead of signing some big money contract with an NHL owner and being involved in the same league as Bettman, you sign with some obscure European team for less money. That would send a message.

I think it's natural for them to go into the next round of negotiations in good faith, then turn when things go sour.

KingsFan7824 11-30-2012 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deytookerjaabs (Post 56144019)
I think it's natural for them to go into the next round of negotiations in good faith, then turn when things go sour.

They hired Donald Fehr years in advance. They knew what was coming, from both the NHL side, and their own.

Then, on top of that, the players still accepted those contract offers(the NHL's dirty money) last summer, and agreed to bump up the cap before the summer even started, forcing owners to spend more. So the players either didn't know what was going to happen when the CBA expired, which makes them oblivious, or they pretty much knew exactly what would happen, and all that happened over the summer and to this day was as coordinated by the PA as it was the NHL.

Suntouchable13 11-30-2012 02:20 PM

In the words of JR "Wake up, NHL, wake up!"

the_fan 11-30-2012 02:22 PM

I really think this lockout will last well beyond this season. We are talking perhaps all of this season and half the next season, or even two full seasons.

deytookerjaabs 11-30-2012 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 (Post 56144353)
They hired Donald Fehr years in advance. They knew what was coming, from both the NHL side, and their own.

Then, on top of that, the players still accepted those contract offers(the NHL's dirty money) last summer, and agreed to bump up the cap before the summer even started, forcing owners to spend more. So the players either didn't know what was going to happen when the CBA expired, which makes them oblivious, or they pretty much knew exactly what would happen, and all that happened over the summer and to this day was as coordinated by the PA as it was the NHL.

Good, they did exactly what they should do if they are under the impression that every time the CBA expires they are going to be asked to bend over again, especially when they'd be under the impression a year off 7 years ago should have produced a sustainable model for success.

McTankel 11-30-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyFan100 (Post 56143145)
I want hockey back.

Same here man, I am going crazy. Even more so now that the Bills our out of playoff contention. :cry:

SerenityRick 11-30-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kopistar (Post 56143759)
@MattBarnaby3636: Talked to a player today on owners meeting players. Response was "another waste of time. Attempt to break up union again."

aka, we don't know anything about negotiating and we just let Fehr do it all for us.

Thank God the players are doing everything they can to get the season going again

Just go to the ****ing meeting. for ****'s sake.


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