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-   -   NHL markets (MOD: define small, medium, large) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1300615)

FoppaForsberg* 12-02-2012 07:50 PM

NHL markets (MOD: define small, medium, large)
 
What would you say are every teams markets? Obviously NY, LA, Boston, and Toronto are big markets and Winnipeg, Edmonton, Minnesota,etc are the small markets but who would you say are the "middle" markets? Colorado? SJ? Montreal?

saskriders 12-02-2012 07:52 PM

I would say Winnipeg and Edmonton are big markets.


They make money regardless of population

craigcaulks* 12-02-2012 07:57 PM

Vancouver's TV ratings say big market, our population says middle and our riots say small time.

TrillMike 12-02-2012 07:59 PM

How are the Canadiens not a big market club? Are you talking about media markets or how popular a team is? I ask because Phoenix is around the 15th biggest US market with an "unpopular" NHL team while Pittsburgh is somewhere around 23rd with one of the most "popular" NHL teams.

KidLine93 12-02-2012 08:00 PM

Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row

craigcaulks* 12-02-2012 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg (Post 56194673)
What would you say are every teams markets? Obviously NY, LA, Boston, and Toronto are big markets and Winnipeg, Edmonton, Minnesota,etc are the small markets but who would you say are the "middle" markets? Colorado? SJ? Montreal?

Lol, how did I miss Montreal as a "middle market".

craigcaulks* 12-02-2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KidLine93 (Post 56194925)
Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row

Making more than "half" the teams doesn't make Edmonton a big market.

Atas2000 12-02-2012 08:11 PM

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/

Here is an article with a list of operational revenues and income for all teams. A pretty good indicator for the markets there.

FoppaForsberg* 12-02-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigcaulks (Post 56194961)
Lol, how did I miss Montreal as a "middle market".

This is why i'm asking, I'm not sure if any Canadian club except for Toronto are big markets. No need to be ignorant.

craigcaulks* 12-02-2012 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg (Post 56195199)
This is why i'm asking, I'm not sure if any Canadian club except for Toronto are big markets. No need to be ignorant.

You are in Canada, I have to admit I am shocked that it wasn't obvious. My apologies.

Montreal is valued at #3 in the NHL because of the size of it's market.

TrillMike 12-02-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atas2000 (Post 56195189)
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/

Here is an article with a list of operational revenues and income for all teams. A pretty good indicator for the markets there.

That was a nice link. OP, check that out. It takes into account a few factors.

RBR 12-02-2012 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigcaulks (Post 56194961)
Lol, how did I miss Montreal as a "middle market".

Yeah not sure what qualifies Boston at 4.5 million as big market yet Montreal at 3.8 million is only middle market. Also, Minneapolis-St Paul has a metropolitan area of 3.3 million. It should be middle market not small market.

DuklaNation 12-02-2012 09:03 PM

The OP needs to define market more clearly. Population size of the respective greater metropolitan areas? Potential revenue base?

sandysan 12-02-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg (Post 56194673)
What would you say are every teams markets? Obviously NY, LA, Boston, and Toronto are big markets and Winnipeg, Edmonton, Minnesota,etc are the small markets but who would you say are the "middle" markets? Colorado? SJ? Montreal?

If you equate population to market, that info can be gotten from the census. Calling Montreal a middle NHL maket ( behind Boston and freaking la) is laughable. Really, laughable.

FoppaForsberg* 12-02-2012 09:39 PM

When I say markets I mean population, income, "players that live to play for once they hit UFA "type of deal, etc etc.

sandysan 12-02-2012 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoppaForsberg (Post 56197489)
When I say markets I mean population, income, "players that live to play for once they hit UFA "type of deal, etc etc.

There's a cap so no team could outspend for Ufa's more than any other. That and population does not equal market. La has way more people than Montreal and it certainly is a much bigger market for many things but hokey ain't one of them.

damacles1156 12-02-2012 11:21 PM

LA is not a hockey market, Highschool football is more popular in LA.

MonsterSurge 12-02-2012 11:29 PM

Wouldn't Minnesota be a big hockey market? They love hockey up there.

Gump Hasek 12-02-2012 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atas2000 (Post 56195189)
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...the-bottom-up/

Here is an article with a list of operational revenues and income for all teams. A pretty good indicator for the markets there.

That article assign's Atlanta's operating income from the previous season to Winnipeg; as such it is not a good indicator regarding Winnipeg's operating income. The updated and much higher estimates that reflect the Winnipeg market can be found here...

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations...n:desc_search:
(scroll down)

Note the year-over-year jump in operating income.

scotchex 12-02-2012 11:50 PM

Revenue is the best metric. That accounts for population, income, and fan interest.

You see this playing out in the NCAA football realignment. The Big East had, on paper, the huge markets in the BosNYWash megalopolis. But that didn't mean that much because a much smaller % of people in the Northeast care about college football compared to the Midwest and the South.

The best way to determine the biggest markets for hockey -- or any other good or service -- is to look at how much revenue that market generates.

sandysan 12-02-2012 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotchex (Post 56201025)
Revenue is the best metric. That accounts for population, income, and fan interest.

You see this playing out in the NCAA football realignment. The Big East had, on paper, the huge markets in the BosNYWash megalopolis. But that didn't mean that much because a much smaller % of people in the Northeast care about college football compared to the Midwest and the South.

The best way to determine the biggest markets for hockey -- or any other good or service -- is to look at how much revenue that market generates.

I think that revenue per fan is also pretty good but it is derivative of total revenue but both ignore secondary market tickets, which does not end up in the teams pockets but is indicative of demand.

ewoksonhoth 12-03-2012 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonsterSurge (Post 56200509)
Wouldn't Minnesota be a big hockey market? They love hockey up there.

The Wild are only a middle of the road market because there's so much hockey up here with the Gophs, bulldogs, Huskies, Mavericks, every other college team I can't seem to remember, and the fact that the State High School tournament sells more tickets than the Texas High School Football state tournament. The market is so saturated that people have to pick and choose.

0123456789* 12-03-2012 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KidLine93 (Post 56194925)
Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row

Edmonton is a small market team. Market is a sum of demand and potential.

Edmonton has no room for growth and if the NHL experienced some success with the big market teams then Edmonton would very quickly fall behind.

This is not to nit pick, at the end of the day Edmonton is a great market, and I dont believe for one second any of the southern american franchises in big markets ever come close to reaching their potential.

Kane One 12-03-2012 02:24 AM

What do you mean by market? TV market or hockey market?

Pay Carl 12-03-2012 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KidLine93 (Post 56194925)
Oilers are a big market...considering they make more money than over half the teams. Who can honestly sell out a last place team 3 years in a row

3 first overall picks, not last place all 3 years ;)


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