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-   -   Ilitch Announces New Arena Plans (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1301289)

RedWingsNow* 12-04-2012 02:41 PM

Ilitch Announces New Arena Plans
 
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/12...ntown-detroit/

Quote:

The sum of the total development in the district, including residential, retail, office facilities and events centre, would amount to approximately US$650 million, and would incorporate a significant private investment supplemented by existing dollars currently collected by the DDA supporting economic development and requiring no new taxes. .
On the wings board, it is suggested that the Pistons might play here too.

I wonder how much taxpayer dollars will finance the arena?
If Detroit's DDA TIF funding works like all the other DDA TIFs I've seen, the arena will be funded with tax dollars that would otherwise go to the schools, fire department, police department etc.

loLZokAY 12-04-2012 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 56237489)
http://blogs.windsorstar.com/2012/12...ntown-detroit/



On the wings board, it is suggested that the Pistons might play here too.

I wonder how much taxpayer dollars will finance the arena?
If Detroit's DDA TIF funding works like all the other DDA TIFs I've seen, the arena will be funded with tax dollars that would otherwise go to the schools, fire department, police department etc.

The pistons idea was coming into play when Illitch was in talks of buying the Pistons. It was then developed that the Wings and Pistons would share a new arena downtown (bringing the Pistons downtown finally). Unfortunately, I don't see this happening anymore.

powerstuck 12-04-2012 03:48 PM

Well, Detroit isn't the most prolific city these days, but if Illitch is the leader of the project, who knows what may happen. The guy has been pretty great for Wings.

GuelphStormer 12-04-2012 03:49 PM

I hope they will have big statues of Ilitch in Detroit one day. He's sunk a lot of money into revitalizing the DT core. Sports, theaters. Really turned things around.

Im of mixed mind as to whether it would be good or bad for him to own the Piston too. The Palace is a nice arena and moving them to a new arena DT would likely kill that venue. I used to go see the Grateful Dead there a lot and have great memories, mostly fuzzy. :naughty: Easy in and out, but it's indeed a haul from DT.

krudmonk 12-04-2012 05:18 PM

I am glad it will be in Detroit proper. Seems they are one of the last metropolitan areas stuck in the "suburbs good, cities bad" mentality.

mouser 12-04-2012 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krudmonk (Post 56241621)
I am glad it will be in Detroit proper. Seems they are one of the last metropolitan areas stuck in the "suburbs good, cities bad" mentality.

I don't know that I'd say they're the last, but it's still pretty bad. The 2010 census recorded Detroit as having its lowest population since 1910.

barneyg 12-04-2012 05:47 PM

If anyone can make it work it's probably Ilitch, but let's just say this isn't the greatest timing to ask for public funds in Detroit right now. The city's finances are hanging by a thread.

TatarTangle 12-04-2012 06:01 PM

Worked in Detroit -Southwest and Downtown- for nearly a year. Needless to say unless you work there everyday you really don't know how bad it is. Love the city but it's a pit.

Key thing to the proposed, new arena is 'Multi-purpose.' A new arena isn't going to bring in more fans for Red Wings' games, it's "sold out" every night but tickets are given away by corporations and end up not being used. A new arena might give them incentive to go though. Having a state-of-the-art arena for the Illitch family would be able to host concerts and other events for more cash flow.

As for Mr. I himself, a lot of people say Barry Sanders, Steve Yzerman, etc are Detroit but they would be wrong. Mr. Illitch will always be Detroit.

BruinsBtn 12-04-2012 06:40 PM

I fear that we will be talking about Detroit relocation in 20 years. That city is a disaster zone, gotta be crazy to build a new arena.

Anyone seen Pistons attendance lately?

If the Wings ever slip in the standings, I fear how bad attendance gets. It's not that people there don't like hockey, it's that downtown is scary and there are no jobs.

Shrimper 12-04-2012 06:44 PM

Detroit won't be relocated in the next 20 years.

Moonlapse Vertigo 12-04-2012 06:45 PM

Take note, Mr. Katz.

BruinsBtn 12-04-2012 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimper (Post 56243875)
Detroit won't be relocated in the next 20 years.

Pistons attendance is dead last in the NBA.

http://media.mlive.com/pistons_impac...9784-small.jpg

The team had 259 consecutive sellouts when they were good, now the arena is 45% unsold and 65% empty.

People who haven't been to Detroit can't comprehend how hard up that city is. I can't see why anyone would build anything there.

irishtemper 12-04-2012 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 56244499)
Pistons attendance is dead last in the NBA.

http://media.mlive.com/pistons_impac...9784-small.jpg

The team had 259 consecutive sellouts when they were good, now the arena is 45% unsold and 65% empty.

People who haven't been to Detroit can't comprehend how hard up that city is. I can't see why anyone would build anything there.

Well I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

The Pistons play in Auburn Hills and that is part of the reason for the lack of attendance they have claimed as no one wants to drive to Auburn Hills to watch a ****** basketball team...if they were downtown people would already be there or would have other things to do and free tickets wouldn't get turned down so often.

BruinsBtn 12-04-2012 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishtemper (Post 56245043)
Well I'm not sure what you're arguing here...

The Pistons play in Auburn Hills and that is part of the reason for the lack of attendance they have claimed as no one wants to drive to Auburn Hills to watch a ****** basketball team...if they were downtown people would already be there or would have other things to do and free tickets wouldn't get turned down so often.

Are you trying to tell me there are people who live in downtown Detroit?

No one is walking to a sporting event in Detroit.

scotchex 12-04-2012 08:13 PM

The city of Detroit is a disaster zone and the poster child for urban blight, decay and lawlessness. Luckily the last of my family finally escaped. It's the suburbs that are keeping the Detroit metro afloat. "Suburbs good, cities bad" is actually true in the case of Detroit.

It's all very sad. And this is about the 20th urban renewal of Detroit I've read about. Hard to imagine it'll be more effective than the 19 previous urban renewals.

Population in the city recently fell below 700k -- it lost 25% in the just the past decade. It was 1.5M in 1970, 1.2M in 1980, 1M in 1990, 950k in 2000. And the population that is left is the poorest, most illiterate, most criminal of any large city in America. It's incredibly sad what's happened to Detroit.

The city refused to protect it's hard-working, productive, tax-paying, non-criminal, educated populace. Detroit let rampant criminality and lawlessness drive out over half it's residents in a few decades.

benusmc 12-04-2012 08:34 PM

Is there a more liked Owner then Mike Ilitch? Seriously here in Detroit is he loved, he spends money, cares about winning, and cares about the city. His son comes off that way as well; although I don't have much to go on. So hopefully the tradition carries on.

benusmc 12-04-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 56245311)
Are you trying to tell me there are people who live in downtown Detroit?

No one is walking to a sporting event in Detroit.

Yes they are. The city is mobbed with sports fans all year long, you hardly see any crime along the main parking areas of the arenas. They are filled with theaters, restaurants, the stadiums, parking lots, and actually have cops. However a mile away is where the problems begin.

As the other poster stated many people in Michigan believe that Pistons attendance hurts because of location. The counter point to this is they gain a lot of attendance from the northern part of the state, which wouldn't want to drive all the way to Detroit. The Pistons suck and weren't/aren't a fun team to watch, that is biggest reason for bad attendance, especially making terrible trades. They are looking better so attendance eventually will improve in the next season.

So it's not that you are right or wrong about some points, but it is very obvious you do not know this area well at all.

ArGarBarGar 12-04-2012 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 56244499)
Pistons attendance is dead last in the NBA.

http://media.mlive.com/pistons_impac...9784-small.jpg

The team had 259 consecutive sellouts when they were good, now the arena is 45% unsold and 65% empty.

People who haven't been to Detroit can't comprehend how hard up that city is. I can't see why anyone would build anything there.

You can't, but people who look to invest can. I've worked directly with people who are still working to invest and provide infrastructure to the city. Urban sprawl did not work, and continuing to try that isn't going to help things. People get that if you want to revitalize the city, you have to look back inwards again.

It doesn't hurt to have an arena close to the Canadian border.

Also, the Pistons have been a garbage franchise for a few years now. Ever since the Iverson trade the team has been a joke, honestly.

Also, have you ever BEEN downtown? It's the outside areas that are scary, which can easily be bypassed by the highways.

TTOMO 12-04-2012 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotchex (Post 56246091)
The city of Detroit is a disaster zone and the poster child for urban blight, decay and lawlessness. Luckily the last of my family finally escaped. It's the suburbs that are keeping the Detroit metro afloat. "Suburbs good, cities bad" is actually true in the case of Detroit.

It's all very sad. And this is about the 20th urban renewal of Detroit I've read about. Hard to imagine it'll be more effective than the 19 previous urban renewals.

Population in the city recently fell below 700k -- it lost 25% in the just the past decade. It was 1.5M in 1970, 1.2M in 1980, 1M in 1990, 950k in 2000. And the population that is left is the poorest, most illiterate, most criminal of any large city in America. It's incredibly sad what's happened to Detroit.

The city refused to protect it's hard-working, productive, tax-paying, non-criminal, educated populace. Detroit let rampant criminality and lawlessness drive out over half it's residents in a few decades.

I've read lots of things about Detroit (It's a city that I find interesting because of all the chaos and issues. Very intriguing place to learn about.), but one thing I learned yesterday that was pretty nuts is that there are no chain grocery stores in the city itself. All the Krogers, Meijers, Walmarts, Targets or whatever else are completely in the suburbs because they don't want to deal with the dangers of Detroit. It's mindblowing. That doesn't just happen in any city.

I've seen pictures of how deserted downtown Detroit is (anytime of day), and it takes 'dead zone' to another level.

I've never been anywhere near Detroit, but I wish the best for that city.

ScottyBowman 12-04-2012 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 56245311)
Are you trying to tell me there are people who live in downtown Detroit?

No one is walking to a sporting event in Detroit.

Downtown detroit along with midtown is starting to boom. Not sure how long you visited but the last 3 years in downtown detroit has been miraculous. It still has a way to go but this is the first time I've had hope and the investments and companies relocating has been awesome. Yes. People live downtown. People will be surprised but their is a strong demand for housing downtown and developers are starting to renovate the old structures. In case you're wondering, whole foods is building a store downtown. Detroit is finally coming back.

ScottyBowman 12-04-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTOMO (Post 56249355)
I've read lots of things about Detroit (It's a city that I find interesting because of all the chaos and issues. Very intriguing place to learn about.), but one thing I learned yesterday that was pretty nuts is that there are no chain grocery stores in the city itself. All the Krogers, Meijers, Walmarts, Targets or whatever else are completely in the suburbs because they don't want to deal with the dangers of Detroit. It's mindblowing. That doesn't just happen in any city.

I've seen pictures of how deserted downtown Detroit is (anytime of day), and it takes 'dead zone' to another level.

I've never been anywhere near Detroit, but I wish the best for that city.

Downtown is not deserted. All the restaurants are packed at lunch.

wingfan 12-04-2012 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotchex (Post 56246091)
The city of Detroit is a disaster zone and the poster child for urban blight, decay and lawlessness. Luckily the last of my family finally escaped. It's the suburbs that are keeping the Detroit metro afloat. "Suburbs good, cities bad" is actually true in the case of Detroit.

It's all very sad. And this is about the 20th urban renewal of Detroit I've read about. Hard to imagine it'll be more effective than the 19 previous urban renewals.

Population in the city recently fell below 700k -- it lost 25% in the just the past decade. It was 1.5M in 1970, 1.2M in 1980, 1M in 1990, 950k in 2000. And the population that is left is the poorest, most illiterate, most criminal of any large city in America. It's incredibly sad what's happened to Detroit.

The city refused to protect it's hard-working, productive, tax-paying, non-criminal, educated populace. Detroit let rampant criminality and lawlessness drive out over half it's residents in a few decades.

Curious as to the last time our apparent sociology prof was downtown here? If you're afraid to be downtown Detroit then A) You've never been, or B) you were in an area on the outskirts of this city, my guess is downriver. I frequent downtown for concerts at the Fox and Fillmore Theatre's, Greektown has some amazing restraunts(Pegasus, Fishbones). Yes, white flight to the suburbs and the wholesale dimantling of the automotive manufacturing sector have clearly taken a huge toll on the city, as well as having a small and unreliable tax base, but Mr. I has managed to turn downtown around with the money his family has invested in infrastructure and entertainment. With the resurgence of an innovative and sustainable auto industry, this city could make it's comeback.

PanthersHockey1 12-04-2012 10:50 PM

I know these huge arena deals that not only have a rink but include office buildings, convention centres, malls, condos, a three ring circus sound great in the theory but if Edmonton is proof sometimes I think the owners get too bright eyed with these development ideas and costs go spiraling out of control even before dirt is moved.

I really hope this plan will work but at the end of the day a new rink is the first priority not a new condo.

PanthersHockey1 12-04-2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingfan (Post 56250789)
Curious as to the last time our apparent sociology prof was downtown here? If you're afraid to be downtown Detroit then A) You've never been, or B) you were in an area on the outskirts of this city, my guess is downriver. I frequent downtown for concerts at the Fox and Fillmore Theatre's, Greektown has some amazing restraunts(Pegasus, Fishbones). Yes, white flight to the suburbs and the wholesale dimantling of the automotive manufacturing sector have clearly taken a huge toll on the city, as well as having a small and unreliable tax base, but Mr. I has managed to turn downtown around with the money his family has invested in infrastructure and entertainment. With the resurgence of an innovative and sustainable auto industry, this city could make it's comeback.

I agree with everything here. I actually enjoy Downtown Detroit a lot. I think it has awesome potential for redevelopment because it already has a strong existing core of entertainment.

Predatorbill 12-04-2012 11:04 PM

I hate to see the Joe go.


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