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-   -   Proposal: Jaden Schwartz for Brandon Gormley... again (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1301321)

Novacain 12-04-2012 02:29 PM

Jaden Schwartz for Brandon Gormley... again
 
So we've had this discussion before, and last time while we agreed the value was fair for the most part, the Coyotes side didn't want to pull the trigger. The reason why I'm bringing this trade up again is that now that Dmitri Jaskin is starting to look like another real high level prospect at the wings, and Tarasenko and Ratties stock have both stayed high. 4 top prospects among wingers in what is already a very deep position has made Jaden more expendable then he was 3 months ago, at least imo.

So, the big change, from our perspective, is that I think most Blues fans are of the opinion that we'd be willing to part with either a mid to high draft pick or another solid midlevel prospect to Jaden to get the trade done. Gormley remains someone Blues fans view as a perfect target. So Coyotes fans, what more would you want to get this deal done?

bleedblue1223 12-04-2012 03:58 PM

I wouldn't add much as they are both very similar in value, but I would be open to expanding a proposal to help fill other needs on each respective team.

Novacain 12-04-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 56241113)
I wouldn't add much as they are both very similar in value, but I would be open to expanding a proposal to help fill other needs on each respective team.

I don't think it's a question of value in the total sense, but a question of value to the teams involved. To me, Gormley's value to the Blues exceeds Schwartz's to the point that I'd be willing to up the offer a bit.

Vladys Gumption 12-04-2012 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacain (Post 56238733)
So we've had this discussion before, and last time while we agreed the value was fair for the most part, the Coyotes side didn't want to pull the trigger. The reason why I'm bringing this trade up again is that now that Dmitri Jaskin is starting to look like another real high level prospect at the wings, and Tarasenko and Ratties stock have both stayed high. 4 top prospects among wingers in what is already a very deep position has made Jaden more expendable then he was 3 months ago, at least imo.

So, the big change, from our perspective, is that I think most Blues fans are of the opinion that we'd be willing to part with either a mid to high draft pick or another solid midlevel prospect to Jaden to get the trade done. Gormley remains someone Blues fans view as a perfect target. So Coyotes fans, what more would you want to get this deal done?

The value is fair but I'd prefer to go after a more established player.

Novacain 12-04-2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 (Post 56241265)
The value is fair but I'd prefer to go after a more established player.

And I, personally, am not willing to part with multiple assets for one player, unless the value is great. And we are not getting a proven top flight defender for a great value.

I am very confident in the Blues ability to develop their young players with this current staff. I'd take this trade and not mess with major chemistry then do a big trade to mix things up when it is clearly not needed.

Vladys Gumption 12-04-2012 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacain (Post 56241519)
And I, personally, am not willing to part with multiple assets for one player, unless the value is great. And we are not getting a proven top flight defender for a great value.

I am very confident in the Blues ability to develop their young players with this current staff. I'd take this trade and not mess with major chemistry then do a big trade to mix things up when it is clearly not needed.

I understand completely where you are coming from. But I can't see us trading for a player that hasn't proven himself at the NHL level yet.

Novacain 12-04-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 (Post 56241559)
I understand completely where you are coming from. But I can't see us trading for a player that hasn't proven himself at the NHL level yet.

Isn't that we basically did to get Tarasenko? Admitted, it was under a different time table, but a smart team trades from areas of strength for areas of weakness. Our biggest strength is wingers up and down the franchise: Our NHL depth is great, our prospect depth is great. Our prospect depth might be even stronger then the NHL level, with Tank, Schwartz, Rattie, Jaskin, Andronov, Veilleux, and Tesink would probably all be among our top 20 prospect, 4 of which would probably be in our top 5, as of now. Prospect for Prospect trades can be risky, but I think this is a case were it is clearly worth the gamble.

The Brewmeister 12-04-2012 04:34 PM

If it was for somebody like Tarasenko or Berglund... sure.


Gormley is our best prospect, and I'm sure Phoenix has to add for Berglund, but Schwartz is on the shorter side and Phoenix is looking for a player that can stand out and provide offence.

Vladys Gumption 12-04-2012 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacain (Post 56241941)
Isn't that we basically did to get Tarasenko? Admitted, it was under a different time table, but a smart team trades from areas of strength for areas of weakness. Our biggest strength is wingers up and down the franchise: Our NHL depth is great, our prospect depth is great. Our prospect depth might be even stronger then the NHL level, with Tank, Schwartz, Rattie, Jaskin, Andronov, Veilleux, and Tesink would probably all be among our top 20 prospect, 4 of which would probably be in our top 5, as of now. Prospect for Prospect trades can be risky, but I think this is a case were it is clearly worth the gamble.

In a way. But Rundblad was still a prospect. I see Schwartz as really our only skilled playmaking winger prospect. Tarasenko, Rattie, and Jaskin are goal scorers.

Novacain 12-04-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Brewmeister (Post 56242025)
If it was for somebody like Tarasenko or Berglund... sure.


Gormley is our best prospect, and I'm sure Phoenix has to add for Berglund, but Schwartz is on the shorter side and Phoenix is looking for a player that can stand out and provide offence.

Both Tarasenko and Berglund would basically be non-starters. We are not trading Tarasenko for any other prospect, or, well, anything the Coyotes would probably have to offer (save OEL and Yandle, which, would be non-starters on your part, I'm sure) and trading Berglund makes an already mediocre C position even weaker.

bleedblue1223 12-04-2012 04:53 PM

Well, if there is not season, we could realistically end up with a top 10 pick or a likely top 15 pick, where a prospect trade would make more sense. Who knows, maybe we find a LHD that we fall in love with at the draft, allowing us to keep Schwartz's playmaking abilities and being McDonald's replacement.

Vladys Gumption 12-04-2012 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 56242583)
Well, if there is not season, we could realistically end up with a top 10 pick or a likely top 15 pick, where a prospect trade would make more sense. Who knows, maybe we find a LHD that we fall in love with at the draft, allowing us to keep Schwartz's playmaking abilities and being McDonald's replacement.

Exactly. If we are fortunate enough to land I higher pick I'd be much more inclined to make the deal.

rt 12-04-2012 11:06 PM

I love Jaden Schwartz. He's one of few names offered for Gormley that made me hesitate for a second. That second passed very quickly and nothing has changed since for me.

lakai17 12-05-2012 12:01 AM

imagine Doan mentoring Schwartz. :amazed:

BlueDream 12-05-2012 01:03 PM

I'd do this in a heartbeat from the Blues POV.

Dolph Ziggler 12-05-2012 01:48 PM

I'd sadly do it from the Blues POV as I love Jaden Schwartz.

Gormley would fill a big need

The Brewmeister 12-05-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacain (Post 56242213)
Both Tarasenko and Berglund would basically be non-starters. We are not trading Tarasenko for any other prospect, or, well, anything the Coyotes would probably have to offer (save OEL and Yandle, which, would be non-starters on your part, I'm sure) and trading Berglund makes an already mediocre C position even weaker.

That's what I was figuring, but our depth at D lets make a move for a good/great potential young centre. If I'm Maloney and Berglund/Tarasenko off the board, I hold on keeping Gormley. Berglund fills a great hole at centre after the Turris debacle, and Tarasenko is just.... Tarasenko.

Don't really think I need to say more.

fedfed 12-05-2012 05:17 PM

What would you want from the Caps for one of Schwartz/Rattie? Orlov+?

SirPaste 12-05-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 56273607)
What would you want from the Caps for one of Schwartz/Rattie? Orlov+?

Maybe work something out for Schwartz + ? for Alzner?

bananaz 12-05-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirPaste (Post 56274229)
Maybe work something out for Schwartz + ? for Alzner?

Unless that "+" is significant, there is no way that the caps move Alzner for that.

Violent By Design 12-05-2012 06:16 PM

Would STL fans have any interest in Pittsburgh's defense prospects?

Something around Despres or Morrow for Schwartz?

Novacain 12-05-2012 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent By Design (Post 56275391)
Would STL fans have any interest in Pittsburgh's defense prospects?

Something around Despres or Morrow for Schwartz?

I can't say I'm aware of the Penguins defensive crop as I should be, but I will say on quick glance the trade would be hard to make without an addition we could be confident could make some sort of impact. Despers would be the one I personally would target, being able to make a run at a roster spot right now, but it's hard to place how much of an improvement he would be over Cole, or if one at all.

It's a more then fair offer, but the problem is what can you add that has enough value to us to actually make an impact on the trade.

Which is probably why most Phoenix fans aren't paying attention to my "What additional parts would it take to swing it into yes" All 3 of the franchises are in win now mode, so draft picks hold little value (unless they are 1sts, I suppose) and Mid Level prospects mean a lot more to teams that aren't trying to win now.

Bluesnatic27 12-05-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent By Design (Post 56275391)
Would STL fans have any interest in Pittsburgh's defense prospects?

Something around Despres or Morrow for Schwartz?

I do like Morrow, is there anyone else that seems interesting other than Schwartz and Tarasenko? I'm not completely against against trading Schwartz, but I would like to know if Pitts. would want anyone else. Maybe something along the lines of D'Agostini+?

rt 12-05-2012 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novacain (Post 56277511)
I can't say I'm aware of the Penguins defensive crop as I should be, but I will say on quick glance the trade would be hard to make without an addition we could be confident could make some sort of impact. Despers would be the one I personally would target, being able to make a run at a roster spot right now, but it's hard to place how much of an improvement he would be over Cole, or if one at all.

It's a more then fair offer, but the problem is what can you add that has enough value to us to actually make an impact on the trade.

Which is probably why most Phoenix fans aren't paying attention to my "What additional parts would it take to swing it into yes" All 3 of the franchises are in win now mode, so draft picks hold little value (unless they are 1sts, I suppose) and Mid Level prospects mean a lot more to teams that aren't trying to win now.

Yeah, that's basically it. The value of Schwartz and Gormley is fairly equal so I really can't see St. Louis adding a whole lot. Short of that, I can't see Phoenix accepting just a little something extra. So, we sort of end up in "no go" territory for both sides.

BlueDream 12-05-2012 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violent By Design (Post 56275391)
Would STL fans have any interest in Pittsburgh's defense prospects?

Something around Despres or Morrow for Schwartz?

Yes!


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