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pdd 12-04-2012 10:19 PM

20 Greatest Red Wings (#11)
 
1) Gordie Howe 52%
2) Steve Yzerman 78%
3) Nicklas Lidstrom 86%
4) Ted Lindsay 39%
5) Terry Sawchuk 33% (Tiebreaker 52%)
6) Sergei Fedorov 56%
7) Alex Delvecchio 56%
8) Red Kelly 50%
9) Sid Abel 24% (Tiebreaker 61%)
10) Pavel Datsyuk 47%

Who is your vote for the 11th greatest Red Wing ever?

mouser 12-05-2012 12:39 PM

Some info on Black Jack Stewart:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...sp?mem=P196404

- 10 Seasons with the Wings
- 3 time NHL 1st team 1943, 1948, 1949
- 2 time NHL 2nd team 1946, 1947
- 1943 and 1950 Stanley Cups

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=43827

Quote:

Jack Stewart's theory of hockey was as straightforward as it was brutal.

"Hit 'em hard and hit 'em often," he'd say.

"Hockey was no tea party to Jack Stewart," New York Rangers coach Frank Boucher explained.

Stewart loved to bodycheck so much that opponents insisted you could see a smile forming on his face as he closed in for the kill.

"He wasn't dirty," Hall of Fame defenseman King Clancy said of Stewart. "But he was the roughest son of a gun you'd ever want to meet."

...

Originally paired with rock-hard Jimmy Orlando, Stewart later formed a tandem with Bill Quackenbush and both of them earned selection to the NHL's Second All-Star Team in 1946-47 and to the First Team in 1947-48 and 1948-49.

Complete opposites in style, Stewart struck fear into opponents, while Quackenbush finessed them off the puck.

"Jack did all the heavy work," Hall of Famer Lynn Patrick said. "He was always advising the other defensemen. And if they made an error, Jack was there to back them up."

jkrx 12-05-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouser (Post 56263531)
Some info on Black Jack Stewart:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...sp?mem=P196404

- 10 Seasons with the Wings
- 3 time NHL 1st team 1943, 1948, 1949
- 2 time NHL 2nd team 1946, 1947
- 1943 and 1950 Stanley Cups

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=43827

I can't believe Shanahan is getting votes over "Black Jack" (a nickname he hated) and Ullman. Shanahans importance to the franchise have been greatly exaggerated and romanticized over the past decade. Don't get me wrong I absolutely loved the guy, brought leadership, grit and scoring but his importance wasn't that great that he should get votes over above mentioned players or Zetterberg.

The Zetterberg Era 12-05-2012 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkrx (Post 56266121)
I can't believe Shanahan is getting votes over "Black Jack" (a nickname he hated) and Ullman. Shanahans importance to the franchise have been greatly exaggerated and romanticized over the past decade. Don't get me wrong I absolutely loved the guy, brought leadership, grit and scoring but his importance wasn't that great that he should get votes over above mentioned players or Zetterberg.

Agree with you, voted Zetterberg, will vote Ullman next then probably Stewart. I think all deserve to go in front of Shanahan, I like Shanny a lot. The guy I really struggle to place is Quackenbush, he never actually won a cup in Detroit. So while people go on and on about him and you see him on a lot of greatest lists with D-man and he has the first teams and Lady Byng, I don't know where that puts him.

I will say this he has one of the most interesting statlines I have ever seen.

Quackenbush in 774 games across professional leagues had 95 PIM. That is for his whole career, which is just incredible. In 1948-49, his last season with Wings when he was a first team all-star, he didn't have a penalty minute the entire year.

jkrx 12-05-2012 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 56266537)
Agree with you, voted Zetterberg, will vote Ullman next then probably Stewart. I think all deserve to go in front of Shanahan, I like Shanny a lot. The guy I really struggle to place is Quackenbush, he never actually won a cup in Detroit. So while people go on and on about him and you see him on a lot of greatest lists with D-man and he has the first teams and Lady Byng, I don't know where that puts him.

I will say this he has one of the most interesting statlines I have ever seen.

Quackenbush in 774 games across professional leagues had 95 PIM. That is for his whole career, which is just incredible. In 1948-49, his last season with Wings when he was a first team all-star, he didn't have a penalty minute the entire year.

Quackenbush was a good defenseman but I think you could slot him after Shanahan. His status with the franchise is quite low when you look at players who played their whole careers here like Draper for example. He gets top placings in rankings for his full career and not just with the Red Wings. Excellent defenseman but might get picked outside the top-15 although you could say that Quackenbush is the Lidström of the 40's.

Edit: here is the top-5 ASTs for Stewart and Quackenbush

Quackenbush: 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Stewart: 1*, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5*
*these 2 finishes came during the LD/RD voting period, determined place by who had the most voting points between both LD and RD players.

pdd 12-05-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkrx (Post 56266121)
I can't believe Shanahan is getting votes over "Black Jack" (a nickname he hated) and Ullman. Shanahans importance to the franchise have been greatly exaggerated and romanticized over the past decade. Don't get me wrong I absolutely loved the guy, brought leadership, grit and scoring but his importance wasn't that great that he should get votes over above mentioned players or Zetterberg.

IMO, Shanahan can be placed behind Osgood. Who's more important, the star goalie or the #3 forward?

The Zetterberg Era 12-05-2012 06:44 PM

To be clear from earlier I wasn't thinking about voting him any time soon. I was more saying I struggle on where exactly to put Quackenbush. He does have some first teams, how much of that is Stewart also, I don't know. I do know he was a fairly terrific player but I think Bruin when I think of him. Just makes it hard on where he should come in if at all in the top 20. I mean was Quackenbush more valuable than a four time cup champion in Draper? They never won with him in the lineup, he was in the AHL during the early 40's championship and was traded right before the big run in the 50's. In terms of greatest Wings it makes it tough even with the first teams and a Lady Byng.

Also curious on when Aurie gets talked about. I know they took down his jersey and his numbers aren't great, but he is certainly a Red Wing at heart. A two time champion, former captain and a first team all-star in 36-37.

jkrx 12-05-2012 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eva unit zero (Post 56275695)
IMO, Shanahan can be placed behind Osgood. Who's more important, the star goalie or the #3 forward?

Those two are easier to compare though as they were here at the same time. I'm actually kind of torn between them as to who were the greatest Re Wing. Greatest player is without a doubt Shanny.

pdd 12-05-2012 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings19405 (Post 56276197)
To be clear from earlier I wasn't thinking about voting him any time soon. I was more saying I struggle on where exactly to put Quackenbush. He does have some first teams, how much of that is Stewart also, I don't know. I do know he was a fairly terrific player but I think Bruin when I think of him. Just makes it hard on where he should come in if at all in the top 20. I mean was Quackenbush more valuable than a four time cup champion in Draper? They never won with him in the lineup, he was in the AHL during the early 40's championship and was traded right before the big run in the 50's. In terms of greatest Wings it makes it tough even with the first teams and a Lady Byng.

Also curious on when Aurie gets talked about. I know they took down his jersey and his numbers aren't great, but he is certainly a Red Wing at heart. A two time champion, former captain and a first team all-star in 36-37.

Aurie was fourth during his career and fifth all-time among RW (including Dit Clapper's RW years) in scoring when he retired. He was 17th and 21st in scoring among all players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkrx (Post 56276621)
Those two are easier to compare though as they were here at the same time. I'm actually kind of torn between them as to who were the greatest Re Wing. Greatest player is without a doubt Shanny.

I personally disagree with Shanahan being the greater player, at least during their time as a Wing.


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