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-   -   With Fehr end-around, owners hit new low—and waste lead (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1304007)

Fugu 12-06-2012 11:15 PM

With Fehr end-around, owners hit new low—and waste lead
 
Jesse Spector of The Sporting News:
Quote:

NHL lockout: With Fehr end-around, owners hit new low—and waste lead

NEW YORK—The cynical approach to this week's meetings between NHL players and owners, with Donald Fehr and Gary Bettman barred from the room, was that the billionaire businessmen were looking for an opportunity to put one over on their employees.

After a productive day on Tuesday that ended with the lieutenants, Steve Fehr and Bill Daly, giving a joint press conference, those worries were shuffled to the back burner. Turns out that was the deal all along, to hear Winnipeg Jets defenseman Ron Hainsey tell it.
Things were going swimmingly on Wednesday night. A few details needed to be hammered out, but the players felt confident with where talks were headed—confident enough that they suggested federal mediators return to help ‘polish this off,”as Hainsey said.
The owners declined.

"As confident as some of players are on their issues, we cannot close deals. I'd love to think I could,” Hainsey said, “We cannot."
Steve Fehr was there, but the job of closing the deal belongs to Donald Fehr. He is the executive director of the NHLPA, after all.
"Once we made clear that ... we had to get our union leadership, that we've hired for this, in the room, there was just a very big change," Hainsey said on Thursday, after talks broke down. "It was alarming, and I was told that if we were going to do that, it was possibly a dealbreaker. That was made clear last night. It was confusing, because we kind of agreed that we were moving toward each other, and we weren't that far apart. So, it's confusing for the players to think that we were supposed to finish this ourselves."

Hainsey was then asked to confirm, point blank, what he had just said: The owners told you that bringing Don Fehr into the room would be a dealbreaker for the progress you had achieved?
"That's correct," Hainsey said.
If they'd agreed to matters in principle, why would having Fehr involved (which any normal person would assume would be needed to close) matter to the owners?

This is entire thing is incredibly bizarre.

TheMoreYouKnow 12-06-2012 11:24 PM

So we have some media guys saying Fehr nixed a deal, now this says the deal was nixed because the owners did't want Fehr involved.

LiquidSnake 12-06-2012 11:25 PM

2 different stories. Impossible to trust either side

Heaton 12-06-2012 11:32 PM

On one hand, Hainsey is correct, on the other - the union hired a guy who can't close a deal to save his life. I'm glad the PA thinks they're united, but they're only hurting themselves at this point. Every time Fehr gets involved the talks take a giant step back.

Fugu 12-06-2012 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heaton (Post 56329347)
On one hand, Hainsey is correct, on the other - the union hired a guy who can't close a deal to save his life. I'm glad the PA thinks they're united, but they're only hurting themselves at this point. Every time Fehr gets involved the talks take a giant step back.


Sure he can. He won't close a deal that let's the NHL bend the players over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSnake (Post 56329151)
2 different stories. Impossible to trust either side


Which other version is there?

TheMoreYouKnow 12-06-2012 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heaton (Post 56329347)
On one hand, Hainsey is correct, on the other - the union hired a guy who can't close a deal to save his life. I'm glad the PA thinks they're united, but they're only hurting themselves at this point. Every time Fehr gets involved the talks take a giant step back.

I'm not sure they can *technically* settle a deal without Fehr's approval. I mean you can't circumvent the NHLPA structure like that, can they? Surely they would have to "fire" Fehr first (and with him his brother)?

joshjull 12-06-2012 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56329677)
Sure he can. He won't close a deal that let's the NHL bend the players over.




Which other version is there?

Daly's response

Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug
Daly reaction to Hainsey saying owners told players that adding D. Fehr back in room could be a deal breaker.. “it was a reaction to the…
Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug
…to players unilaterally terminating the players/owners-only dynamic, and telling us (2 or 3 times) that their decision was non-negotiable..
Quote:

@TSNRyanRishaug
..totally within their rights to do, but response of our owners was “if that’s the case, don’t expect us to stay involved.”

Freudian 12-06-2012 11:51 PM

Bill Daly has already clarified the Hainsey comment. If NHLPA wanted Fehr back in the room, the owner-player meeting would end. The NHLPA insisted and the owners flew home.

It was a dealbreaker for the owner-player thingy, nothing else. But good effort by Hainsey trying to make it into a big thing.

Krishna 12-07-2012 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56328837)
Jesse Spector of The Sporting News:


If they'd agreed to matters in principle, why would having Fehr involved (which any normal person would assume would be needed to close) matter to the owners?

This is entire thing is incredibly bizarre.

Does something like this matter?

adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"

IslesNorway 12-07-2012 12:15 AM

So in essence this is all down to one man: Fehr?

Somehow I wish the NHL's response right now would be to cancel the entire season so the players simply lose out on everything.

KINGS17 12-07-2012 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 56330025)
Does something like this matter?

adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"

Fehr has really overplayed his hand. Now the players will only lose more. Moderate owners have removed themselves from the process.

I fully expect Bettman to come back with an offer that is less than what Fehr just turned down with a deadline to take it, or the season will be cancelled.

DuklaNation 12-07-2012 12:26 AM

Fehr's job should be to try to get the best possible deal for the players. It shouldnt be to try to win the deal at the expense of the players. The players have themselves to blame. They knew Fehr's modus operandi. Im sure many of them have vacations booked already.

oilexport 12-07-2012 12:33 AM

It does seem like every proposal has died on Don Fehr's pen. The Fans, NHL, and Players will all suffer because this guy has to squeeze as much as he can from the NHL.

Don Fehr must want to decertify and blow things up. Don does not want to make this deal. It's quite clear.

Krishna 12-07-2012 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilexport (Post 56330747)
It does seem like every proposal has died on Don Fehr's pen. The Fans, NHL, and Players will all suffer because this guy has to squeeze as much as he can from the NHL.

Don Fehr must want to decertify and blow things up. Don does not want to make this deal. It's quite clear.

Funny that you say that. Bettman even said that in his speech today

The Zetterberg Era 12-07-2012 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56328837)
Jesse Spector of The Sporting News:


If they'd agreed to matters in principle, why would having Fehr involved (which any normal person would assume would be needed to close) matter to the owners?

This is entire thing is incredibly bizarre.

Sorry unfortunately this time the guys weren't just Jacobs and Bettman. Seems especially from statements that Tanenbaum, Burkle, Vinik and Chipman. Sorry but who comes out the bad guys in this are a little different when one group has actually changed a lot of the primaries and the other side hasn't done so and wants to bring back in one of the problems.

It shouldn't come as a surprise or bizarre either, Fehr has basically been poison to owners and a desire to not want to be around him for about 30 years in the sports world. You might not agree with the treatment or reputation he gets from owners but a lot of it is earned.

Killion 12-07-2012 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56328837)
This entire thing is incredibly bizarre.

Certainly is. I mean, what were the owners expecting? That theyd reach an accord, draft a new CBA themselves, get the players to sign on lock stock & barrel, neither side running it by Fehr, Bettman, legal council etc?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 56330025)
adater ‏@adater From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"

These Deep Throats really need to step out from the shadows & into the light. Subversion of this nature is beyond suspect.

Cloned 12-07-2012 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 56330921)
Certainly is. I mean, what were the owners expecting? That theyd reach an accord, draft a new CBA themselves, get the players to sign on lock stock & barrel, neither side running it by Fehr, Bettman, legal council etc?

I think they were hoping that the players would consider keeping the player-owner dynamic for a while longer in order to make more progress before bringing in the leaders.

Quote:

These Deep Throats really need to step out from the shadows & into the light. Subversion of this nature is beyond suspect.
I don't blame them. No one wants to voice a dissenting opinion publically because they saw what happened to Hamrlik.

The Zetterberg Era 12-07-2012 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 56330921)
Certainly is. I mean, what were the owners expecting? That theyd reach an accord, draft a new CBA themselves, get the players to sign on lock stock & barrel, neither side running it by Fehr, Bettman, legal council etc?



These Deep Throats really need to step out from the shadows & into the light. Subversion of this nature is beyond suspect.

After the backlash on Hamrlik an 18 year vet, I doubt it.

Krishna 12-07-2012 12:48 AM

Wait, what did I miss with Hamrlik? What did he say?

edit : just saw it

Apparently Neuvirth agreed

The Zetterberg Era 12-07-2012 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 56331057)
Wait, what did I miss with Hamrlik? What did he say?

Not sure if you're serious with the amount you are around here but,

Quote:

"I am disgusted. We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us. We lost (a quarter of the) season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr?" Hamrlik was quoted as saying.

"There should be voting between players. Four questions—YES or NO—then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA. If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
Quote:

Hamrlik's words sparked plenty of responses from fellow NHLPA members, most of whom disagreed with his assessment. Montreal Canadiens forward Erik Cole called Hamrlik’s comments “the most selfish thing I’ve heard during the lockout.”
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...a-gary-bettman

Felt pretty bad about what everyone said in response. He just voiced his opinion and thought he had the right to do it with his long service and having sat through three of these. Was not looked on real well by his fellow NHLPA members though.

Habaneros 12-07-2012 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquidSnake (Post 56329151)
2 different stories. Impossible to trust either side


do we believe Bettman sayin Kings not for sale?..lol



May 30, 2012
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/G...inances-053012
Quote:

His strongest words were directed toward the New York Post for a report that the Kings were for sale.

“It never ceases to amaze me when a newspaper writes a story and the principles involved absolutely deny it, and they can be the only source. The Post was told both by Tim Leiweke and by [the league] that the story was categorically untrue; the Kings are not for sale. But they said they had their own sources so they decided to go ahead with the story,” Bettman said. “The story is not true.”



Sept 2012
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...kings-for-sale
Quote:

NHL lockout: Stanley Cup champion Los Angeles Kings for sale
Published on Tuesday September 18, 2012 ]

Ernie 12-07-2012 01:06 AM

This is beyond absurd. They're willing to torpedo a possible deal because they don't like Donald Fehr? But they have no problem with Steve Fehr.

We're somehow supposed to believe the players are wrong to vilify Bettman, but the owners, who are supposed to be level headed businessmen, behave this way?

This smells much more like Bettman and Jacobs trying to kill a deal they don't like and pinning the blame it on Fehr. Again. Isn't this playbook getting somewhat predictable at this point?

Fugu 12-07-2012 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 56329795)
Daly's response


He's saying the same thing--- if you bring D Fehr back in, which you have a right to do, we're taking our puck and going home.

Daly's words need to be studied carefully:
Quote:

players unilaterally terminating the players/owners-only dynamic
How long was this players/owners-only dynamic supposed to go? Until a CBA was signed/approved--- outside the structure of the NHLPA? The NHL owners cannot approve a CBA outside their constitution.

Fugu 12-07-2012 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian (Post 56329817)
Bill Daly has already clarified the Hainsey comment. If NHLPA wanted Fehr back in the room, the owner-player meeting would end. The NHLPA insisted and the owners flew home.

It was a dealbreaker for the owner-player thingy, nothing else. But good effort by Hainsey trying to make it into a big thing.


It was an accurate portrayal of why talks shut down. Owners wanted the players to make a deal without their PA head (and outside their NHLPA constitution).

Fugu 12-07-2012 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 56330025)
Does something like this matter?

adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"


I don't know. It's a single data point right now. If something actually comes of it, then yes. Does what Scottie Upshall said matter?


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