HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Polls - (hockey-related only) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72)
-   -   Is Grabovski a top-six centre on a contender? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1305939)

Bomber0104 12-10-2012 12:42 AM

Is Grabovski a top-six centre on a contender?
 
The title basically says it all.

There's a few Leafs fans on the Leafs board that are convinced that Grabo is not only a 2nd line centreman on a team challenging for the Cup but even as much as a 1st line centreman.

I'm asking non-Leafs fans if they believe a team with Cup aspirations should consider Grabovski a first or second line centreman.

Vankiller Whale 12-10-2012 12:46 AM

He could be. I mean, there are better 2nd line centres than Grabovski, but he's still a really good player, and there's nothing wrong with having him at 2C.

Eisen 12-10-2012 12:48 AM

Voted no, wish I would have voted yes after a minute of thinking. He's certainly not the best but he is good enough imho.

WarriorOfGandhi 12-10-2012 12:52 AM

assuming the top five best teams in the conference (plus LA since they actually won it) are Cup contenders:

NYR -- push
Boston -- no
Florida -- yes
Pittsburgh -- lolno
Philadelphia -- no
Vancouver -- no
STL -- push
Phoenix -- yes
Nashville -- push
Chicago -- if Kane is RW, yes. otherwise no.
LA -- no

so for a weak contender (oxymoronic as that statement is), I'd say yes. Would want a better #2 on a Cup team, however.

PALE PWNR 12-10-2012 01:07 AM

Hes a serviceable #2 Center, if I am contending for the cup he better be my number 3 though.

HappyGilmourr 12-10-2012 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PALE PWNR (Post 56415191)
Hes a serviceable #2 Center, if I am contending for the cup he better be my number 3 though.

wrong, he's an above average second line Centre I would go as far as saying he is an elite number 2 centre. Defensively sound, he plays against the other teams top lines and still manages to put up 55-60. He's so under rated its frustrating. I would go as far as saying he's the leafs most important forward. Thats the problem though... he shouldn't be our best forward he should be our 4th best forward on the second line.. That's why we desperately need a number 1 so Grabovski doesn't have to be that guy.

Pyrophorus 12-10-2012 01:18 AM

2 seasons ago he centered the 5th best line in the league.

Was that an aberration, or could he be like this, at least in spurts?

VinnyC 12-10-2012 01:19 AM

If he has quality wingers (say, Clowe and Hemsky) then he can definitively anchor a 2nd line on a contender. Kinda like Weiss.

HappyGilmourr 12-10-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyC (Post 56415343)
If he has quality wingers (say, Clowe and Hemsky) then he can definitively anchor a 2nd line on a contender. Kinda like Weiss.

This has nothing to do with it... He makes his wingers better.

Liminality 12-10-2012 01:29 AM

Don't think he has the consistency to be a #1 centre but he's got the skills and hustle to be a decent #2 offensive centre.

So sure, he could be a 2nd line centre on a cup contending team.

Machinehead 12-10-2012 01:32 AM

Absolutely. I think he makes a great second line center on a Cup team provided he has some good wingers to work with.

Look at the 2C's on the final 4 this year: Adam Henrique, Derek Stepan, Mike Richards, and Martin Hanzal.

Now Stepan, Henrique, and Richards are better going forward, but when you consider that Stepan and Henrique were just kids last year, and Richards was having a crappy year for Richards, they weren't far off from where Grabo is now, and those teams did just fine.

VinnyC 12-10-2012 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozak (Post 56415395)
This has nothing to do with it... He makes his wingers better.

Well, if he has quality wingers then they'll be of even more quality because of his presence. That's what contenders look for. Players that can make good skaters great.\\

Quote:

Now Stepan, Henrique, and Richards are better going forward, but when you consider that Stepan and Henrique were just kids last year, and Richards was having a crappy year for Richards, they weren't far off from where Grabo is now, and those teams did just fine
They had great linemates, though:

Stepan - Callahan and Anisimov
Henrique - Kovalchuk and Parise
Richards - Carter and Williams

HappyGilmourr 12-10-2012 01:40 AM

I'm basing this on the last 2 years which is completely fair because that's when Grabovski broke out.

2010.11
29 goals - 10th overall among C's.
58 points - 25th overall among C's.


2011.12
21 goals - 18th overall
51 points - 30th overall.


Among scoring statistics he's in the top 30 in every category. Offensively he's on par with what an elite second line guy should be. Defensively I have no way to convince you because I my self don't put a lot of faith in +/- stats but he's been a + player the past 2 seasons while playing against the other teams best line. You have to watch him to appreciate how good he is. He's so important to us, there's a reason he got the contract he did. Maybe 5.5 is a little rich but that's the direction the NHL is going and is what all these guys are getting now.

eklunds source 12-10-2012 01:41 AM

Grabovski is a heck of a lot better than people think.

Yashintangibles 12-10-2012 01:43 AM

Grabo would be an exceptional fit on the checking-line of a cup contender.
On a playoffs team he would be fine as a 2nd liner.

JKsilverstick* 12-10-2012 01:44 AM

Of course he can be a #2 center on a contender.

Yashintangibles 12-10-2012 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eklunds source (Post 56415551)
Grabovski is a heck of a lot better than people think.

Grabovski is immensely underrated here.

Nizdizzle 12-10-2012 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozak (Post 56415537)
I'm basing this on the last 2 years which is completely fair because that's when Grabovski broke out.

2010.11
29 goals - 10th overall among C's.
58 points - 25th overall among C's.


2011.12
21 goals - 18th overall
51 points - 30th overall.


Among scoring statistics he's in the top 30 in every category. Offensively he's on par with what an elite second line guy should be. Defensively I have no way to convince you because I my self don't put a lot of faith in +/- stats but he's been a + player the past 2 seasons while playing against the other teams best line. You have to watch him to appreciate how good he is. He's so important to us, there's a reason he got the contract he did. Maybe 5.5 is a little rich but that's the direction the NHL is going and is what all these guys are getting now.

You can't just straight up use stats like that though, he likely wouldn't get the quality of minutes that he gets in Toronto on a team with better center depth.

(Not saying I disagree that he is a great #2, just playing devil's advocate)

Machinehead 12-10-2012 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyC (Post 56415487)
Well, if he has quality wingers then they'll be of even more quality because of his presence. That's what contenders look for. Players that can make good skaters great.\\



They had great linemates, though:

Stepan - Callahan and Anisimov
Henrique - Kovalchuk and Parise
Richards - Carter and Williams

If we're talking about Cup contenders I think great linemates are a given. Nobody wins the Cup without a very good top 6 at both wing and center.

The Blue Devil 12-10-2012 01:54 AM

Just to be clear, most agree that he is a great #2C and could be a #2C/top 6 forward for a contender. However none of us have said that he'd be a #1 on a contender.

Granted it is funny seeing his poll backfire on him.

PatriceBergeronFan 12-10-2012 02:00 AM

He'd be serviceable on some weaker Contenders. An average 2nd line center is what he is really. I'd only consider him "elite" if he were dropped down to a 3rd line. He certainly has the talent to fill his role.

Muzzinga 12-10-2012 02:01 AM

Definately, big Grabovski fan.

ponder 12-10-2012 02:15 AM

Teams can be constructed in so many different ways. Even looking at nothing but post-lockout Stanley Cup champs, we've seen:

- Brett Hedican as the #1 dman on a cup winning team (2006 Canes)
- David Krejci and Andy McDonald as the #1 Cs on cup winning teams (2011 Bruins and 2007 Ducks)
- Antti Niemi and Chris Osgood as the #1 goalies on cup winning teams (2010 Hawks and 2008 Wings)

These guys would be considered weak #1 dmen/centres/goalies, but teams still won the cup with them playing those positions. Grabo is an above average #2 C, he could clearly be the #2 C on a contender as long as the rest of the team was strong.

Machinehead 12-10-2012 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 56415825)
Teams can be constructed in so many different ways. Even looking at nothing but post-lockout Stanley Cup champs, we've seen:

- Brett Hedican as the #1 dman on a cup winning team (2006 Canes)
- David Krejci and Andy McDonald as the #1 Cs on cup winning teams (2011 Bruins and 2007 Ducks)
- Antti Niemi and Chris Osgood as the #1 goalies on cup winning teams (2010 Hawks and 2008 Wings)

These guys would be considered weak #1 dmen/centres/goalies, but teams still won the cup with them playing those positions. Grabo is an above average #2 C, he could clearly be the #2 C on a contender as long as the rest of the team was strong.

I see your point but I wouldn't consider Andy Mac a weak 1C by any stretch. He's had trouble staying healthy but his PPG is easily first line caliber.

VinnyC 12-10-2012 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 56415825)
Teams can be constructed in so many different ways. Even looking at nothing but post-lockout Stanley Cup champs, we've seen:

- Brett Hedican as the #1 dman on a cup winning team (2006 Canes)
- David Krejci and Andy McDonald as the #1 Cs on cup winning teams (2011 Bruins and 2007 Ducks)
- Antti Niemi and Chris Osgood as the #1 goalies on cup winning teams (2010 Hawks and 2008 Wings)

These guys would be considered weak #1 dmen/centres/goalies, but teams still won the cup with them playing those positions. Grabo is an above average #2 C, he could clearly be the #2 C on a contender as long as the rest of the team was strong.

You're right. Although let's also consider that the Ducks 2C was Getzlaf (who ended up playing more than Andy, and so did Pahlsson during the cup run) and the Bruins' was Bergeron; both teams had crazy forward depth.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.