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UsernameWasTaken 12-10-2012 04:10 PM

CBC: Cancelled Games in Pro Sports - By the Numbers
 
Bettman, Fehr and cancelled games: By the numbers

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/interactive...y/nhl-lockout/

Quote:

In 64 per cent of these lost games either NHL commissioner Gary Bettman or current NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr (or both) were involved.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/interactive...lockout_02.png

cbcwpg 12-10-2012 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken (Post 56429183)

Have no fear, by the time this is over Fehr will be #1 as well.

we're #1 , we're #1
:hockey:

Fugu 12-10-2012 04:18 PM

It would be more accurate to compare the lost games as percentage of their league's available games. This reeks of gerrymandering.


Is it ever possible to blame Bettman for his management of the NHL for nearly two decades now? One more nail in this NHL fan's coffin.

UsernameWasTaken 12-10-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56429451)
It would be more accurate to compare the lost games as percentage of their league's available games. This reeks of gerrymandering.


Is it ever possible to blame Bettman for his management of the NHL for nearly two decades now? One more nail in this NHL fan's coffin.

one of the bottom graphs shows the # of games lost adjusted for schedule length.

cheswick 12-10-2012 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken (Post 56429549)
one of the bottom graphs shows the # of games lost adjusted for schedule length.

It would be more accurate to account for the number of fans losing the ability to attend the games. ie 1 NHL game los is like 18,000 fans but an NFL game lost is 40,000. This reeks of gerrymandering.

Fugu 12-10-2012 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheswick (Post 56429623)
It would be more accurate to account for the number of fans losing the ability to attend the games. ie 1 NHL game los is like 18,000 fans but an NFL game lost is 40,000. This reeks of gerrymandering.

No, in that case, you should plug in the dollars lost to the leagues.

What are you trying to measure?

stuffradio 12-10-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56429451)
It would be more accurate to compare the lost games as percentage of their league's available games. This reeks of gerrymandering.


Is it ever possible to blame Bettman for his management of the NHL for nearly two decades now? One more nail in this NHL fan's coffin.

Do we really think Bettman is not just the scapegoat for the owners losing money? If it were another commissioner, he would be doing the same thing.

Ernie 12-10-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuffradio (Post 56430011)
Do we really think Bettman is not just the scapegoat for the owners losing money? If it were another commissioner, he would be doing the same thing.

That's ridiculous. Commissioners in other sports have hammered out deals much much earlier. Bettman has been obsessed with breaking the union. That's why he holds the record for game cancellations.

AHockeyGameBrokeOut* 12-10-2012 04:46 PM

It all makes sense now - Fehr is going for the record.

Bourne Endeavor 12-10-2012 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56429451)
It would be more accurate to compare the lost games as percentage of their league's available games. This reeks of gerrymandering.


Is it ever possible to blame Bettman for his management of the NHL for nearly two decades now? One more nail in this NHL fan's coffin.

MLB: 39%
NBA: 57%
NFL: 44%

That would be just for Commissioners, although I am only basing this one how many games each league plays per year, excluding the NHL, which has cancelled a full season.

Crease 12-10-2012 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56429451)
It would be more accurate to compare the lost games as percentage of their league's available games. This reeks of gerrymandering.

Ask and it is given.

From the time Gary Bettman took office to today, 10.1% of NHL regular season games have been lost. No games have been lost in the six years that Roger Goodell has run the NFL. 2% of NBA games have been lost under David Stern's watch (28 years) and 2% of MLB games have been lost under Bud Selig's leadership (20 years).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56429451)
Is it ever possible to blame Bettman for his management of the NHL for nearly two decades now? One more nail in this NHL fan's coffin.

Context matters. The wishes of individual owners matter. The willingness of the players association to compromise matters. That being said, the % of games lost under Bettman's watch is higher than the % of games lost by the NFL, NBA, and MLB combined, and its not even close. Pretty damning evidence of a job poorly done.

Orrthebest 12-10-2012 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie (Post 56430197)
That's ridiculous. Commissioners in other sports have hammered out deals much much earlier. Bettman has been obsessed with breaking the union. That's why he holds the record for game cancellations.

That argument only makes sense if the players had the worst CBA in pro-sports but they had the best and will still have the best. Bettman's only issue is that he is facing the most militant Union in sports.

Dado 12-10-2012 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crease (Post 56431263)
From the time Gary Bettman took office to today, 10.1% of NHL regular season games have been lost. No games have been lost in the six years that Roger Goodell has run the NFL. 2% of NBA games have been lost under David Stern's watch (28 years) and 2% of MLB games have been lost under Bud Selig's leadership (20 years).

That's incredible.

And incredibly damning.

DL44 12-10-2012 07:37 PM

People often forget the context of these numbers...

Bettman inherited a completely open market where players had massive rights with very limited restriction to anything.
- Remember how big the ELC system was - considered a massive win in his first go around..
- Also It's pretty apparent if the the owners had the balls to follow through on a cancelled season in '94, the NHL's landscape could of been different... as would Bettman's perceived legacy. (assuming they were able to achieve the soft cap).

He's been battling an uphill fight to revoke some of the rights players have become accustomed to in an attempt even the playing field...
a battle which hopefully finally comes to conclusion in the coming week...


Consider the systems in place for owners just prior to Goodell, Stern, and Selig... compare to the NHL in 93.


But the easy default thing to do is always "OMG! BEttman evil!"

Fugu 12-10-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DL44 (Post 56434463)
People often forget the context of these numbers...

Bettman inherited a completely open market where players had massive rights with very limited restriction to anything.
- Remember how big the ELC system was - considered a massive win in his first go around..
- Also It's pretty apparent if the the owners had the balls to follow through on a cancelled season in '94, the NHL's landscape could of been different... as would Bettman's perceived legacy. (assuming they were able to achieve the soft cap).

He's been battling an uphill fight to revoke some of the rights players have become accustomed to in an attempt even the playing field...
a battle which hopefully finally comes to conclusion in the coming week...


Consider the systems in place for owners just prior to Goodell, Stern, and Selig... compare to the NHL in 93.


But the easy default thing to do is always "OMG! BEttman evil!"


He's not evil. He just holds the record among commissioners for games lost as a %-age of their season lengths. He also has the dubious honor now of approving two CBAs of completely different systems that have come back to bite the league in its ass.

DL44 12-10-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56434847)
He's not evil. He just holds the record among commissioners for games lost as a %-age of their season lengths.

Means nothing to me. Just a fun 'fact' to throw around without context as message board fodder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56434847)
He also has the dubious honor now of approving two CBAs of completely different systems that have come back to bite the league in its ass.

The first one was against his recommendation.
The second - was imperfect... but at least managed to get a healthy system in place... but obviously imperfect.

So i'll give you - almost 1-ish.

Freudian 12-10-2012 08:07 PM

No doubt the relationship between union and league is worse in hockey than in any other sport and the issues that needed to be fixed larger. So hockey having most games lost is natural in a way.

I do think the lack of the television money others sports have is also a factor. Big external revenue streams make it much easier to keep everyone happy. NHL never had that.

berklon 12-10-2012 08:33 PM

Finally the NHL has beaten the other leagues at something. Oh wait...

Melrose Munch 12-10-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DL44 (Post 56434463)
People often forget the context of these numbers...

Bettman inherited a completely open market where players had massive rights with very limited restriction to anything.
- Remember how big the ELC system was - considered a massive win in his first go around..
- Also It's pretty apparent if the the owners had the balls to follow through on a cancelled season in '94, the NHL's landscape could of been different... as would Bettman's perceived legacy. (assuming they were able to achieve the soft cap).

He's been battling an uphill fight to revoke some of the rights players have become accustomed to in an attempt even the playing field...
a battle which hopefully finally comes to conclusion in the coming week...


Consider the systems in place for owners just prior to Goodell, Stern, and Selig... compare to the NHL in 93.


But the easy default thing to do is always "OMG! BEttman evil!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by DL44 (Post 56434959)
Means nothing to me. Just a fun 'fact' to throw around without context as message board fodder.



The first one was against his recommendation.
The second - was imperfect... but at least managed to get a healthy system in place... but obviously imperfect.

So i'll give you - almost 1-ish.

This is excuses. When you are given a mess you clean up not make it bigger. The second CBA was an outright failure. So the next one will be as well. Track record.

Orrthebest 12-10-2012 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melrose Munch (Post 56436123)
This is excuses. When you are given a mess you clean up not make it bigger. The second CBA was an outright failure. So the next one will be as well. Track record.

Only if you completely ignore that it takes two sides to come to an agreement. Bettman can only fix the NHL's problems if the PA allows him to do it. NFL players accepted a big reduction in their share without any lost games.

hockeyfan2k11 12-10-2012 08:58 PM

For a sport that's trying so hard to not be looked at as a fringe sport and trying to gain fans, these numbers are absolutely pathetic.

hockeyfan2k11 12-10-2012 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orrthebest (Post 56436485)
Only if you completely ignore that it takes two sides to come to an agreement. Bettman can only fix the NHL's problems if the PA allows him to do it. NFL players accepted a big reduction in their share without any lost games.

That's true, but I mean, he's responsible for a lot of the NHL's problems. The thing about him is the players hate him and so do the fans. I can't say the same for Stern and Selig and to a lesser extent Goodell. No commisioner is hated more and disrespected more than Gary.

thom 12-10-2012 09:02 PM

If hockey is considered fringe to americans what does that make american football to rest of the world?fringer

KingsFan7824 12-10-2012 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian (Post 56435251)
I do think the lack of the television money others sports have is also a factor.

Not a factor, the factor.

Considering the lack of any real money from TV, the players have made out exceedingly well. That's with Bettman. I don't know why players continue to sign in the NHL when they're free agents if they hate the man on top of the league so much, especially since 2005 when the players got bent over.

Confucius 12-10-2012 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbcwpg (Post 56429325)
Have no fear, by the time this is over Fehr will be #1 as well.

we're #1 , we're #1
:hockey:

Can't wait, because it must mean Bettman will be gone.


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