HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Edmonton Oilers (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=38)
-   -   Lockout Thread #4: Tentative agreement! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1306585)

402 12-11-2012 05:36 PM

Lockout Thread #4: Tentative agreement!
 
Last thread is full.
Here is the last ten posts
I made it a yes/no poll because i think it more easily expresses what we think and is simplier: will we have hockey, yes or no

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 56458455)
Actually it is 100% wrong. You just finished saying the media were the ones that were expousing a victory for the league and not Bettman. That is NOT what the poster in question stated. This isn't between the league and the media or the players and media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 56458559)
Fool me once......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone (Post 56458749)
Why would the owners play the season with a 43:57 revenue split in favor with the players when that is exactly what they are trying to reverse? The owners would have absolutely 0 leverage in this case, and the players 0 incentive to negotiate an equitable agreement. In fact, as it got closer to the playoffs, the players leverage would increase because of the Fehr of them striking!

The players refusing to negotiate until the start of the season, despite overatures from Bettman to get the process rolling early in the summer, could be viewed as having a hostile intent.

I am sick of the players arguement that they are giving too much back, and the owners are giving up nothing. Sorry boys, just because the owners overpaid you for the last 20 years doesn't mean you have the God given right to a slow, painless reduction in wages. I would love to see Bettman get his 57:43 split in favor of the owners; perhaps then profitable franchises would mean the fans pay less (i seriously doubt it, but we can dream).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 56458823)
If the players wanted some peaceful, respectful negotiations, they never would have dumped Paul Kelly. The minute they did that, and turned to hired shyte-disturber and noted hard-ass Don Fehr was a shot across the bow. And the fact that the union under Fehr turned down league overtures to talk in January and waited till close to the expiration date of the contract confirms they were gearing up for a battle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybaroo (Post 56459195)
Pleaase enlighten the masses as to why Fehr would not even entertain negotiations until very , very late in the 11th hour. That, on its ownn, clearly manifested the bad faith he would come to the negotiations with. He had zero, nada, intention of the CBA been succesfully negotiated before the season commenced. Thats obvious.
And the terms they offered were ridiculous. You know that, I know that. Play on the same terms as there was. Yeah, that makes sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am the Liquor (Post 56459277)
Between that and the missing/expropriated union funds one has to wonder just what the **** is going on over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SK13 (Post 56459297)
They were clearly pretty pissed off about their "loss" and wanted to reestablish some kind of PA strength.

If they were half as intelligent as they think they are, they'd notice that "loss" turned into a player windfall in less than 4 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueChip01 (Post 56459585)
Instead of crying about it, why didn't the PA just counter the initial NHL offer fairly quickly instead of making counters that were not based off of the expired CBA? Counter at 54% or something. Then both sides move to the middle. Yes it was an extreme initial offer, but who said it was a final offer?

All we heard was this crying poor by the PA, etc. I'm sure the NHL just looked at the NBA for example and started low. They got a deal done and their initial offer was in the mid 30's percentage wise or so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoneman89 (Post 56460673)
Exactly. Some people are all upset by the NHL's initial lowball offer at the outset. What did they think they were going to do - give their best shot immediately and work from there? It's where you finish at the end of dealing, not the start. And if some players were upset by the initial offer, they need to shed the sensitivity and realize that this is how negotiations begin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 402 (Post 56460757)
Mediators failed big time the first time around, the sides are closer together this time around. Gary said they were not interested in mediators yet here they are


MeestaDeteta 12-11-2012 05:45 PM

I feel they are too close for the season to be cancelled. To me, it sounds like they're really just haggling over small details and issues.

Master Lok 12-11-2012 05:51 PM

Thanks for doing this 402. You've done a great job at keeping the thread going. Amazing, fourth thread!

402 12-11-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle (Post 56461047)
I feel they are too close for the season to be cancelled. To me, it sounds like they're really just haggling over small details and issues.

Yeah i get the impression fehr is just waiting for the last second to get the best deal he can from the league. We'll see what happens tomorrow and next week because we really are approaching crunch time in a hurry so they need to get it going

402 12-11-2012 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Lok (Post 56461225)
Thanks for doing this 402. You've done a great job at keeping the thread going. Amazing, fourth thread!

Thank you :)
Hopefully they make a deal and we don't need a fifth thread :laugh:

Stoneman89 12-11-2012 06:49 PM

I really want to believe what you guys are saying. I really do. But I've had the toy pulled away from me so many times now by the little string, that I'm at the point where I say, " fine, no more stupid tricks, not falling for that anymore. Just let me know when you want to put the toy in my hand."

Blue And Orange 12-11-2012 07:15 PM

As bleak as it is....I still think there will be a season starting in January. Both sides are playing brinksmanship. Once the drop dead date looms, one side is going to cave.

AM 12-11-2012 07:17 PM

If im the NHL I lowball them and let them sit until a cadre of players will to play for 1million a season shows up.

402 12-11-2012 07:23 PM

Here's an article by Elliotte Friedman i thought it was a good read
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...out-fixer.html

OilerNut* 12-11-2012 07:49 PM

Don't know if this was already post but this is a really interesting article from 2009 that has predicted what is happening now.

http://nesn.com/2009/08/kelly-firing...l-never-learn/

HotToddy 12-12-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilerNut (Post 56464557)
Don't know if this was already post but this is a really interesting article from 2009 that has predicted what is happening now.

http://nesn.com/2009/08/kelly-firing...l-never-learn/

Really confused as to why Paul Kelly's firing is consistently used as negative shot at the players.

joestevens29 12-12-2012 10:10 AM

Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN
The consensus among NHL management types/agents here this morning is that there will definitely be a resolution to the lockout, and soon.

CantHaveTkachev 12-12-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 56477527)
Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN
The consensus among NHL management types/agents here this morning is that there will definitely be a resolution to the lockout, and soon.

I'll believe it when I see it

there was major "positive" signs last Tuesday in the players and owners only meetings

0ilerman 12-12-2012 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 56477527)
Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN
The consensus among NHL management types/agents here this morning is that there will definitely be a resolution to the lockout, and soon.

:laugh::laugh:
Boy that'd be great

Tarus 12-12-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotToddy (Post 56477143)
Really confused as to why Paul Kelly's firing is consistently used as negative shot at the players.

Because his ousting for daring to expose PA embezzlers directly led to the hardliners more concerned with confrontation than resolution regaining control of the PA. Consequently dictating NHLPA policy, and contributing to the current lockout we are in.

402 12-12-2012 10:46 AM

Meeting with mediators has apparently started. I do like that the meeting is at an unknown location with no media allowed its a better environment to try to get a deal done.

OneMoreAstronaut 12-12-2012 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 402 (Post 56478361)
Meeting with mediators has apparently started. I do like that the meeting is at an unknown location with no media allowed its a better environment to try to get a deal done.

Absolutely. Both sides need to stop with the parade again, and get down to work. And the media needs to co-operate too - no nosing around. It's even in their best interests to finally butt-out. Once hockey is back, they can stop covering this boring negotiating process and stop having to create fluff, filler news stories.

Billybaroo* 12-12-2012 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarus (Post 56477979)
Because his ousting for daring to expose PA embezzlers directly led to the hardliners more concerned with confrontation than resolution regaining control of the PA. Consequently dictating NHLPA policy, and contributing to the current lockout we are in.

So true. Only an NHLPA apologiast couldnt see that.
From my perspective it also shows that the NHLPA could give a rats ass about the health of the league as a whole, & its individual franchises, rather it simply reflected "get as much as you can, as fast as you can".

Master Lok 12-12-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty (Post 56477719)
I'll believe it when I see it

there was major "positive" signs last Tuesday in the players and owners only meetings

Agreed. Most of the media really know nothing about what's going on, or even basic understanding of the CBA issues. I'm talking about Kypreos, Ward, Weekes, McLennan in particular.

HotToddy 12-12-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarus (Post 56477979)
Because his ousting for daring to expose PA embezzlers directly led to the hardliners more concerned with confrontation than resolution regaining control of the PA. Consequently dictating NHLPA policy, and contributing to the current lockout we are in.

He was fired after it was revealed he viewed sealed minutes from an in-camera session of the NHLPA advisory committee.

This was coming off of the Ted Saskin firing for intercepting private emails so its understandable that players were a little iffy regarding privacy concerns.

This is also the same Paul Kelly who just got fired from as Commisioner of US College Hockey.

Without passing judgement on Mr.Kelly it seems only the most biased observer could argue the players didn't upgrade with their selection of Fehr.

Booya42 12-12-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotToddy (Post 56480741)
He was fired after it was revealed he viewed sealed minutes from an in-camera session of the NHLPA advisory committee.

This was coming off of the Ted Saskin firing for intercepting private emails so its understandable that players were a little iffy regarding privacy concerns.

This is also the same Paul Kelly who just got fired from as Commisioner of US College Hockey.

Without passing judgement on Mr.Kelly it seems only the most biased observer could argue the players didn't upgrade with their selection of Fehr.

Yes, we all know Fehr was god's grace to MLB so should be the same for the NHL...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994%E2...aseball_strike

Quote:

While 50,245 fans showed up for the New York Yankees' home opener, it was the smallest opening day crowd at Yankee Stadium since 1990.[2] MLBPA President Donald Fehr attended the game, angering many fans, because he ruined their team's postseason chances and what would have been Don Mattingly's postseason debut.[47] In response, the fans booed him and yelled, "You ruined the game!"[47] Fehr attended the last game played at Yankee Stadium before the strike.[48][49] A fan held up a sign saying "$HAME ON YOU!"[50]
Clearly he's all about making the league better and sustainable for the future...

Quote:

Arguably the largest impact was to the Montreal Expos.[52] Not only did their dream season (first in MLB, 6 games ahead of the Atlanta Braves in NL East) end abruptly, they were forced to lower payroll and sell off their four highest paid stars in the span of less than a week in spring training, even further because of losses due to the strike,[53] and with the strike almost completely destroying its fan base, the Expos would never recover from the incident.[54] Despite respectable performances in 1996, 2002 and 2003, the team never came close to contending again;[55] the team was purchased by Major League Baseball after the 2001 season,[56][57] and would become the focus of contraction rumors until the team was moved to Washington, D.C., to become the Washington Nationals after the 2004 season.[58]
Give it up HotToddy...You're in the extreme minority when it comes to being a Fehr fanboy.

Tarus 12-12-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotToddy (Post 56480741)
He was fired after it was revealed he viewed sealed minutes from an in-camera session of the NHLPA advisory committee.

This was coming off of the Ted Saskin firing for intercepting private emails so its understandable that players were a little iffy regarding privacy concerns.

This is also the same Paul Kelly who just got fired from as Commisioner of US College Hockey.

Without passing judgement on Mr.Kelly it seems only the most biased observer could argue the players didn't upgrade with their selection of Fehr.

That was bullsh*t.

Anonymous sources that proved to be nothing of substance. In fact, it was later found that not only was the executive commitee heavily pressured into the decision, but most of the reasons turned out to be false.

The backlash over the mess within the NHLPA even led to one of the ringleaders in the debacle - Ian Penny(interm replacement), to resign around two months later(Chelios hounded him right out the door)

Dorian2 12-12-2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Lok (Post 56461225)
Thanks for doing this 402. You've done a great job at keeping the thread going. Amazing, fourth thread!

Agreed.

402 has done a great job of not only keeping the thread to its appropriate size, but has also done a good job of actually taking ownership and contricuting to the discussion.

Thanks 402.

BTW: I voted yes, but I would have voted Don't Know if there was that option.

The reason I voted yes is because I don't think the players are that stupid to go a whole season without a paycheck. This is already going to spell the end of a number of player's careers...

Billybaroo* 12-12-2012 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotToddy (Post 56480741)
He was fired after it was revealed he viewed sealed minutes from an in-camera session of the NHLPA advisory committee.

This was coming off of the Ted Saskin firing for intercepting private emails so its understandable that players were a little iffy regarding privacy concerns.

This is also the same Paul Kelly who just got fired from as Commisioner of US College Hockey.

Without passing judgement on Mr.Kelly it seems only the most biased observer could argue the players didn't upgrade with their selection of Fehr.

You do realize he was in the midst of examining the misapprpriation of funds by Lindros et al at the NHLPA, do you not? You also realize that the firing took place in the middle of the night, with little to no lead time for the players, if they even knew what was going on, to inform themselves.
Your not THAT naive , are you?

Billybaroo* 12-12-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarus (Post 56481755)
That was bullsh*t.

Anonymous sources that proved to be nothing of substance. In fact, it was later found that not only was the executive commitee heavily pressured into the decision, but most of the reasons turned out to be false.

The backlash over the mess within the NHLPA even led to one of the ringleaders in the debacle - Ian Penny(interm replacement), to resign around two months later(Chelios hounded him right out the door)

Btw Hot Toddy, why wont the executive release the report surrounding Lindros et al antics & the firing?
Any guesses?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:54 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.