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-   -   Sadly here is proof the owners never planned on hockey in December (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1307327)

Fenway 12-13-2012 02:03 AM

Sadly here is proof the owners never planned on hockey in December
 
I am making this a new thread as I want the media people who have have the ability to email Bill Daly or other NHL officials to explain to us how MSG could book this concert on 11/15

Proof the NHL owners had no intention of playing in December? The Sandy concert was announced on November 15th

http://www.billyjoel.com/news/all-st...urricane-sandy

The Montreal-Rangers game was NOT cancelled until a week later on November 23rd

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...all-star-game/


Please do not merge this in the lockout thread where it will be lost - this shows the NHL had NO INTENTION of settling.

VinnyC 12-13-2012 02:11 AM

Isn't Dolan one of the more anti-Bettman owners out there?

Anyway, at the pace negotiations were headed at that given time it's highly unlikely a CBA would get done within 8 days. I'm sure they had their own internal deadlines too. It's not just about the players and owners themselves; there are thousands upon thousands that need to be looked after. The lockout affects so many.

Fenway 12-13-2012 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnyC (Post 56504045)
Isn't Dolan one of the more anti-Bettman owners out there?

Anyway, at the pace negotiations were headed at that given time it's highly unlikely a CBA would get done within 8 days. I'm sure they had their own internal deadlines too. It's not just about the players and owners themselves; there are thousands upon thousands that need to be looked after. The lockout affects so many.

Dolan and Bettman do not like each other.

STILL - Dolan had to clear this with the NHL to book a high profile event.

We saw the same thing a month ago when Jacobs rented out TD Garden to Romney.


I happen to belong in the third-party group that this lockout is killing but this clearly shows the NHL had no intention of settling. I really want somebody from the media to ask Bill Daly the question - 'Who gave Dolan the go ahead to rent out MSG'

Master Shake 12-13-2012 02:45 AM

Your conspiracy theory consists of a concert added shortly before the date and after the CBA strife had already been months old. Pretty much common sense that the game was not going to be played

Fenway 12-13-2012 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Shake (Post 56504245)
Your conspiracy theory consists of a concert added shortly before the date and after the CBA strife had already been months old. Pretty much common sense that the game was not going to be played

Oh I agree on the common sense part.

But it also opens the door for a Rangers season ticket holder to sue.

I want to hear Bill Daly explain this - did the NHL approve it or did Dolan just do it on his own.

It is a fair question and I hope one of our media lurkers can get an answer.

Whydidijoin* 12-13-2012 03:05 AM

Even if a CBA would have been signed, the entire schedule would have had to be redone anyway, so they would have just not scheduled a game in NY on that day.

Mr Writer 12-13-2012 03:17 AM

further proof that the NHL owners had no intention of good faith negotiations to at least try and start the season on time was that when the NHL schedule was announced last summer, Hall of Fame Weekend in November which is a traditional Saturday night game in Toronto, oddly enough the Maple Leafs were scheduled to play a road game in Washington that Saturday evening and the NBA Toronto Raptors were booked to play a game in ACC and had been since the NBA schedule was announced last summer. The Raptors never and I mean never play a home game on a Saturday night, that is the exclusive right of TML, Saturday nights. This whole lockout was planned 2 years ago, schemed and planned by one Gary Bettman and the law firm they employ down to the very last detail, right down to that hissy fit Bettman threw for the TV cameras a week ago.

Xref 12-13-2012 06:56 AM

If and when a new CBA is inked, then and ONLY then can a revised schedule be created. And all clubs will have input into it.

Arena owners cannot be expected to leave their buildings dark on the odd chance that the NHL and the NHLPA MIRACULOUSLY come to a quick agreement.

Dolan wanted to open his doors to help Sandy victims. Imagaine the backlash if he didn't.

The booking of the concert proves nothing insofar as the dynamic of the negotiations are concerned.

MoreOrr 12-13-2012 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenway (Post 56503977)
I am making this a new thread as I want the media people who have have the ability to email Bill Daly or other NHL officials to explain to us how MSG could book this concert on 11/15

Proof the NHL owners had no intention of playing in December? The Sandy concert was announced on November 15th

http://www.billyjoel.com/news/all-st...urricane-sandy

The Montreal-Rangers game was NOT cancelled until a week later on November 23rd

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...all-star-game/


Please do not merge this in the lockout thread where it will be lost - this shows the NHL had NO INTENTION of settling.

There is some potential logic that could explain this. By November 15th it was obvious that a number of games were to be lost in the Season. That means that certain games would and will need to be rescheduled. The Rangers, for example, would have 4 games scheduled again Montreal, but if that number needs to be reduced to 3, then the December game may have been one which could be removed from the schedule to make room for perhaps a game against another team (later in the Season) which would've been lost in October or November.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whydidijoin (Post 56504335)
Even if a CBA would have been signed, the entire schedule would have had to be redone anyway, so they would have just not scheduled a game in NY on that day.

Not the entire, but a big chunk of it.

cheswick 12-13-2012 08:52 AM

This is akin to saying the NHLPA wasn't willing to negotiate because players went to play overseas. Absolutely ludicrous.

pld459666 12-13-2012 09:01 AM

.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Shake (Post 56504245)
Your conspiracy theory consists of a concert added shortly before the date and after the CBA strife had already been months old. Pretty much common sense that the game was not going to be played

It's only common sense that the game is NOT going to get played after it has been canceled.

Up to the point of making that decision, it's common sense that if they had agreed to a deal on the 16th or 17th that there would have been a significant conflict.

Seems VERY shady to me.

Tuggy 12-13-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 56506685)
It's only common sense that the game is NOT going to get played after it has been canceled.

Up to the point of making that decision, it's common sense that if they had agreed to a deal on the 16th or 17th that there would have been a significant conflict.

Seems VERY shady to me.

There is nothing shady.

The schedule would have to be completed redone once a new CBA has been reached.

You don't just pick up with the schedule that was originally created.

stuffradio 12-13-2012 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenway (Post 56503977)
I am making this a new thread as I want the media people who have have the ability to email Bill Daly or other NHL officials to explain to us how MSG could book this concert on 11/15

Proof the NHL owners had no intention of playing in December? The Sandy concert was announced on November 15th

http://www.billyjoel.com/news/all-st...urricane-sandy

The Montreal-Rangers game was NOT cancelled until a week later on November 23rd

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...all-star-game/


Please do not merge this in the lockout thread where it will be lost - this shows the NHL had NO INTENTION of settling.

This is a big conspiracy theory. They would have re-scheduled the game. The games were not going to be the same, so why even bring this up?

HansH 12-13-2012 09:36 AM

Did the OP ever consider that 1) even had there been a settlement in time for December hockey, that the WHOLE SCHEDULE would have to be re-done, and that it was just as likely that the new schedule wouldn't have had a 12/12 date on it, or 2) even if the season had started on time, that games are moved a day here and there not infrequently?

This is evidence of exactly nothing.

manisback121 12-13-2012 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenway (Post 56504305)
Oh I agree on the common sense part.

But it also opens the door for a Rangers season ticket holder to sue.

I want to hear Bill Daly explain this - did the NHL approve it or did Dolan just do it on his own.

It is a fair question and I hope one of our media lurkers can get an answer.

Nice attempt, but the force majeure clause in the contract would probably cover it, not to mention if the season started up; the delay in performance was probably excused.

Not to mention a person does have a duty to mitigate their damages even in common law.

There is some precedence in that a court in ny has found that the lockout is not
nder exclusive control of the owners. The collusion arguments were rejected by the 2nd department

aj8000 12-13-2012 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenway (Post 56503977)
I am making this a new thread as I want the media people who have have the ability to email Bill Daly or other NHL officials to explain to us how MSG could book this concert on 11/15

Proof the NHL owners had no intention of playing in December? The Sandy concert was announced on November 15th

http://www.billyjoel.com/news/all-st...urricane-sandy

The Montreal-Rangers game was NOT cancelled until a week later on November 23rd

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-...all-star-game/


Please do not merge this in the lockout thread where it will be lost - this shows the NHL had NO INTENTION of settling.

Considering you do not know the details of the contract for the concert, there may have been a clause that would move the concert date to an alternate if the lockout ended? Not to mention the fact (that has already been mentioned) that the schedule would have changed. to fit more games in then usual.

Your so called "proof" means nothing.

Fishhead 12-13-2012 10:13 AM

Or they just bump/reschedule the concert. This happens all the time during the playoffs, when dates are filled even though there is the potential for playoff games happening. It's not like the entire months of March-June are left open at big arenas just because the NHL team might make a cup run.

Fugu 12-13-2012 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HansH (Post 56507261)
Did the OP ever consider that 1) even had there been a settlement in time for December hockey, that the WHOLE SCHEDULE would have to be re-done, and that it was just as likely that the new schedule wouldn't have had a 12/12 date on it, or 2) even if the season had started on time, that games are moved a day here and there not infrequently?

This is evidence of exactly nothing.


Actually, no, the league gives itself ten days roughly to get in a short training camp and to re-open. A schedule for a regular season is prepared months ahead of time, with the main issue being arena availability, plus the emphasis on grouping road trip games for teams to minimize travel. It's not that easy to just move things around, especially with about a week to work it out.

What the league would do is probably pick up the remainder of the existing schedule and then add games at the very end, or back-to-backs if the arena was available and both teams' schedules allowed it.

CootaRoo 12-13-2012 10:27 AM

The old schedule was going to be scrapped as soon as the first cancellation of games came down, so you can't use it genuinely as a reference for conspiracy theories.

Boltsfan2029 12-13-2012 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aj8000 (Post 56507431)
Considering you do not know the details of the contract for the concert, there may have been a clause that would move the concert date to an alternate if the lockout ended? Not to mention the fact (that has already been mentioned) that the schedule would have changed. to fit more games in then usual.

Your so called "proof" means nothing.

Bingo.

We know for a fact (down here, anyway) that hockey takes priority over all other scheduled events. We don't hold dates empty for our arena just in case we make the playoffs - it's stipulated with the event folks that if the arena is needed for hockey, they're going to be either moved to another venue (as we did with a college graduation ceremony in 2004) or the event will be rescheduled (as we did with an ice show, I think it was, a couple of years ago). Same could hold true here, as well.

The schedule would have been re-done so there might not have been a game that day, anyway.

Much ado about nothing.

Boltsfan2029 12-13-2012 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56508257)
What the league would do is probably pick up the remainder of the existing schedule and then add games at the very end, or back-to-backs if the arena was available and both teams' schedules allowed it.

If it had been a full season, perhaps. If it's a shortened season the schedule would have had to have been totally revamped to ensure all teams played the same number of games, division/conference, etc.

cbcwpg 12-13-2012 10:32 AM

Let's say for the sake of argument that there is "proof" that the owners knew they were not going to be playing hockey in December....

SO!

Hell, I could have told you that back in June we were not going to be playing hockey before Christmas. To anyone following the process it was more than obvious that when the players hired Fehr, we ( the fans ) were going to be in for a rough ride and we were not going to be seeing hockey. And I'm not blaming Fehr... I blame both sides, but Fehr was brought in to be specifically confrontational towards Bettman and the ownership. That's what he does.

Fugu 12-13-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 (Post 56508315)
If it had been a full season, perhaps. If it's a shortened season the schedule would have had to have been totally revamped to ensure all teams played the same number of games, division/conference, etc.


Sorry, but you cannot revamp the schedule completely (30 teams, 30 arenas) in one week. The arenas aren't just sitting there waiting for the NHL teams, but have made bookings months in advance for concerts, maybe the NBA teams, if shared, and other events that come up.

Sydor25 12-13-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugu (Post 56508543)
Sorry, but you cannot revamp the schedule completely (30 teams, 30 arenas) in one week. The arenas aren't just sitting there waiting for the NHL teams, but have made bookings months in advance for concerts, maybe the NBA teams, if shared, and other events that come up.

Of course you can. Each team submits their available arena dates and the schedule writers work off of those available dates. Doesn't take that long to do.

DreamBeaut 12-13-2012 10:49 AM

NHL could claim that they'd have to rewrite the schedule anyway, and in doing so would have avoided this date.

Nothing to see here.


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