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-   -   NHLPA exec board asks players to empower PA dissolution; NHL files w/Fed court+NLRB (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1307911)

colchar 12-14-2012 02:11 PM

NHLPA exec board asks players to empower PA dissolution; NHL files w/Fed court+NLRB
 
Either this move spurs the league to negotiate or this whole thing is about to go nuclear:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...er-of-interest

Do Make Say Think 12-14-2012 02:13 PM

That's not technically correct:

A dislaimer of interest is the union walking away from the players from a bargainning standpoint.

Canadiens Ghost 12-14-2012 02:16 PM

IMO, further proof Fehr never negociated in good faith. He should have at least submitted the NHL's last offer to a vote before going this route. What was he afraid of? Oh that's right! That the players would have actually accepted the last offer. Eff off Fehr!

tarheelhockey 12-14-2012 02:17 PM

If this goes through, would it be possible for the players to go back to direct negotiations with the owners, with a different set of lawyers representing them?

Confucius 12-14-2012 02:24 PM

Oh well since Fehr was bad this new event should make all happy.

copperandblue 12-14-2012 02:24 PM

But I thought the players were 100% behind Fehr and trusted his ability completely?

colchar 12-14-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens Ghost (Post 56541451)
IMO, further proof Fehr never negociated in good faith. He should have at least submitted the NHL's last offer to a vote before going this route. What was he afraid of? Oh that's right! That the players would have actually accepted the last offer. Eff off Fehr!

Yeah, like Bettman has ever negotiated in good faith.

colchar 12-14-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 56541473)
If this goes through, would it be possible for the players to go back to direct negotiations with the owners, with a different set of lawyers representing them?

There are so many potential scenarios floating around that I honestly do not think anyone really knows what happens if the union is dissolved.

Confucius 12-14-2012 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadiens Ghost (Post 56541451)
IMO, further proof Fehr never negociated in good faith. He should have at least submitted the NHL's last offer to a vote before going this route. What was he afraid of? Oh that's right! That the players would have actually accepted the last offer. Eff off Fehr!

Apparently that is what he is asking to do. He just wants to see it in votes.:laugh:

colchar 12-14-2012 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 56541703)
But I thought the players were 100% behind Fehr and trusted his ability completely?

It is a tactic used to force the league to negotiate (the league flatly refused to do so with the mediators this week) or to bring the whole thing before the courts. It has nothing to do with support.

molsonmuscle360 12-14-2012 02:29 PM

I actually think them decertifying or disclaiming without voting on any of the offers by the NHL will prove to make their case useless in court

copperandblue 12-14-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colchar (Post 56541789)
It is a tactic used to force the league to negotiate (the league flatly refused to do so with the mediators this week) or to bring the whole thing before the courts. It has nothing to do with support.

Yes I'm quite aware, thanks though.

Crease 12-14-2012 02:30 PM

Filing a disclaimer of interest is simply the quickest way to dissolve the union and expose the NHL to antitrust litigation. This does not indicate whether or not the players are satisfied with Fehr's efforts. If the PA is hoping to win an injunction that lifts the lockout, time and precident are not on their side. This is, IMO, the PA giving the owners a headache over final CBA items that are not worth the headache.

Confucius 12-14-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 56541857)
I actually think them decertifying or disclaiming without voting on any of the offers by the NHL will prove to make their case useless in court

Maybe the court will rule in a year or so.

copperandblue 12-14-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 56541857)
I actually think them decertifying or disclaiming without voting on any of the offers by the NHL will prove to make their case useless in court

You mean over and above guys like Miller outright saying that dissolving the union is a bargaining tactic that would be used to put pressure on the league as well as multiple public PA voices stating that the players had 100% faith in Fehr as a union leader?

Boltsfan2029 12-14-2012 02:33 PM

I read this as they're asking the players to give them to power to file a DOI if they choose to do so, not that they're going to actually do it now.

https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...48571249287168


Quote:
Aaron Ward Aaron Ward Verified ‏@aaronward_nhl

NHLPA Executive Board voted last night,to give players a vote to AUTHORIZE Exec Board to chose to proceed on Disclaimer of Interest #TSN

rrasco 12-14-2012 02:34 PM

The fact that this was made public means it's probably just another negotiating tactic. If the league sees the union about to dissolve then they will never get their way. Maybe it's enough to bring them back to the table.

molsonmuscle360 12-14-2012 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 56541937)
You mean over and above guys like Miller outright saying that dissolving the union is a bargaining tactic that would be used to put pressure on the league as well as multiple public PA voices stating that the players had 100% faith in Fehr as a union leader?

What exactly does that have to do with the negotiating committee of the NHLPA not putting any offer to a full union vote? We've honestly heard about 10% of the NHLPA speak up at most in the last 2 weeks about the offer. What does the other 90% think? Are we supposed to take Scottie Upshall's word on it?

copperandblue 12-14-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 56542045)
What exactly does that have to do with the negotiating committee of the NHLPA not putting any offer to a full union vote? We've honestly heard about 10% of the NHLPA speak up at most in the last 2 weeks about the offer. What does the other 90% think? Are we supposed to take Scottie Upshall's word on it?

I was not disagreeing with your point, I was adding that the players have publicly stated that this type of action would both be used a bargaining ploy and continue to stand firmly in trust of Fehr.

2 additional items that could/should haunt them in any anti trust suit.

colchar 12-14-2012 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 56541877)
Yes I'm quite aware, thanks though.

And yet you still felt the need to make a sarcastic post about Fehr...

thome_26 12-14-2012 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 (Post 56541959)
I read this as they're asking the players to give them to power to file a DOI if they choose to do so, not that they're going to actually do it now.

https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...48571249287168


Quote:
Aaron Ward Aaron Ward Verified ‏@aaronward_nhl

NHLPA Executive Board voted last night,to give players a vote to AUTHORIZE Exec Board to chose to proceed on Disclaimer of Interest #TSN

This is a very old/common labour negotiating tactic. You never ask the members of a union to vote on a specific action. You simply ask them to vote to authorize it. They tell their members 'this will give us more leverage, we won't actually do it'. However once advance authorization is given, it really doesn't matter if the players want to or not.

molsonmuscle360 12-14-2012 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperandblue (Post 56542271)
I was not disagreeing with your point, I was adding that the players have publicly stated that this type of action would both be used a bargaining ploy and continue to stand firmly in trust of Fehr.

2 additional items that could/should haunt them in any anti trust suit.

Sorry, I misread that as saying that since Miller and them were saying Fehr knew what he was doing it was going to be ok for the players. It seems to me that the players just don't realize, that each owner has as many lawyers as the NHLPA does as a whole. They are much more aware of how this will turn out than any player does.

colchar 12-14-2012 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 (Post 56542045)
What exactly does that have to do with the negotiating committee of the NHLPA not putting any offer to a full union vote? We've honestly heard about 10% of the NHLPA speak up at most in the last 2 weeks about the offer. What does the other 90% think? Are we supposed to take Scottie Upshall's word on it?

At least the players are allowed to come to any meeting they want and are allowed to speak out while the owners are not only not permitted to attend meetings, they are not even allowed to speak. And why hasn't the league put any offers to a vote of the owners?

Sydor25 12-14-2012 02:57 PM

I think the thread title should be changed. The NHLPA negotiating committee is only asking the NHLPA to vote for the authorization to file a disclaimer. The NHLPA isn't voting to dissolve the Union.

This is just another PR step for the NHLPA to whip the media into a frenzy and force the NHL back to the table. Fehr loves the courtroom more than the negotiating room anyways.

The disclaimer should have been done before the lockout if the NHLPA wanted a chance to win in court.

thome_26 12-14-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colchar (Post 56542423)
At least the players are allowed to come to any meeting they want and are allowed to speak out while the owners are not only not permitted to attend meetings, they are not even allowed to speak. And why hasn't the league put any offers to a vote of the owners?

The PA members can choose to speak with one voice, should they like to, also.

-----------

I think the big thing here is that the PA isn't fully considering what the nuclear option could mean. Escalating the stakes could give the NHL an excuse to reply in kind with the threat of contraction. And let's be honest, it wouldn't be impractical for the league to drop 3-4 franchises.


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