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-   -   Best Playmaker: Crosby vs. Forsberg vs. Jagr (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1308473)

Fred Taylor 12-15-2012 08:20 PM

Best Playmaker: Crosby vs. Forsberg vs. Jagr
 
Who's the best playmaker of the three?

I Hate Chris Butler 12-15-2012 08:22 PM

Jagr had 60 or more assists in a season 8 times, so him.

livewell68 12-15-2012 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster (Post 56576565)
Jagr had 60 or more assists in a season 8 times, so him.

Not to mention 2 seasons with 80 assists or more. He had 87 in 1995-96 to break the NHL record for most assists in a season by a European as well as a Winger (breaking Bossy's record).

His other came when he had 83 in 1998-99 to lead the league (16 more than? Forsberg).

He led the league in assists 3 times.

AD1066 12-15-2012 09:27 PM

Jagr is a notch above the other two, at least in my opinion. I think we take him for granted sometimes, because he's still playing.

livewell68 12-15-2012 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AD1066 (Post 56578479)
Jagr is a notch above the other two, at least in my opinion. I think we take him for granted sometimes, because he's still playing.

Exactly. I think sometimes people forget just how dominant he really was in his prime.

He also turned in a dominant performance as 34 year old past his prime.

livewell68 12-15-2012 10:58 PM

How can some people think Crosby is a better playmaker than Forsberg and Jagr?

Both Jagr and Forsberg are top 10 all-time playmakers.

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Oates
5. Howe
6. Francis
7. Jagr
8. Lafleur
9. Coffey
10. Forsberg

Then players like Sakic, Yzerman, Thornton, Leetch, Gilmour, Clarke, Lafontaine, Stastny, Beliveau, follow.

Crosby would be closer to Sedin than he is to Jagr and Forsberg. In fact Crosby could probably be slotted at number 20 behind all the players I named above.

dr robbie 12-15-2012 11:04 PM

Currently, I would say that Crosby in the best, only because Jagr is 40 and Forsberg is out of shape :P

Really, you gotta go with Jagr. He's a good level above the others. Yes, Crosby could catch him potentially, but it would take a lot of good seasons from here on out.

Gritzky98 12-15-2012 11:13 PM

Jagr
Forsberg

Crosby

MastuhNinks 12-16-2012 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livewell68 (Post 56580097)
How can some people think Crosby is a better playmaker than Forsberg and Jagr?

Because.


EDIT: For the lazy, Crosby is 5th all time in the NHL in assists per game through 7 seasons (behing Gretzky, Lemieux, Stastny, Orr), Forsberg is 7th, Jagr is 29th. Of course, you could make the argument that Jagr's remarkable consistency would place him the highest, but there is certainly an argument for Crosby.

silkyjohnson50 12-16-2012 12:29 AM

All 3 seen the ice at an elite level, but in different ways.

Jagr was the most effective playmaker, no question. The biggest reason for that was because he was the best puck possession player of these 3. Jagr may very well be the best puck possession player of all time. When you have the ability to hold on to the puck longer, it opens things up. All elite playmakers are great puck possession players, you pretty much have to be, but Jagr's ability to use his backside was just unparalleled.

Forsberg was my favorite playmaker of these 3. He seen the ice better than most. He had the uncanny ability to slow the game down when he had the puck, which was a treat to watch. He made the game look different every time he touched the puck.

Crosby does most of his playmaking in high speed in comparison. Also fun to watch and clearly effective, I just personally enjoyed watching the game picked apart the way Forsberg did more.

nowhereman 12-16-2012 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livewell68 (Post 56580097)
How can some people think Crosby is a better playmaker than Forsberg and Jagr?

Both Jagr and Forsberg are top 10 all-time playmakers.

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Oates
5. Howe
6. Francis
7. Jagr
8. Lafleur
9. Coffey
10. Forsberg

Then players like Sakic, Yzerman, Thornton, Leetch, Gilmour, Clarke, Lafontaine, Stastny, Beliveau, follow.

Crosby would be closer to Sedin than he is to Jagr and Forsberg. In fact Crosby could probably be slotted at number 20 behind all the players I named above.

Wow... you are REALLY underrating Crosby. Based purely on skill level and not accomplishments, he's definitely a top ten playmaker of all time. Not sure how you can justify putting guys like Sakic, Yzerman, Gilmour, Statsny, etc. ahead of him.

As far as this poll goes:

1. Jagr
2. Crosby
3. Forsberg

Fred Taylor 12-16-2012 12:39 AM

I consider these three equal in playmaking ability, which is why I made the poll, and so far I'd say Forsberg is getting massively underrated.

Fred Taylor 12-16-2012 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman (Post 56581489)
Wow... you are REALLY underrating Crosby. Based purely on skill level and not accomplishments, he's definitely a top ten playmaker of all time. Not sure how you can justify putting guys like Sakic, Yzerman, Gilmour, Statsny, etc. ahead of him.

As far as this poll goes:

1. Jagr
2. Crosby
3. Forsberg

You have Jagr number one, but you voted for Crosby, which is it?

I Hate Chris Butler 12-16-2012 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Taylor (Post 56581519)
...and so far I'd say Forsberg is getting massively underrated.


#****NoOneSays

I don't think he's necessarily getting overrated, just that Jagr has a clear edge.

Machinehead 12-16-2012 03:58 AM

Right now Jagr is pretty much the best everything out of these three.

Bure All Day 12-16-2012 05:33 AM

Put Crosby in the exact same time frame as Jagr, and I'm certain he would outproduce him.

Crosby is just the biggest try-hard to ever play the game... always will be the best when he's on his game

Bure All Day 12-16-2012 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livewell68 (Post 56580097)
How can some people think Crosby is a better playmaker than Forsberg and Jagr?

Both Jagr and Forsberg are top 10 all-time playmakers.

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Lemieux
4. Oates
5. Howe
6. Francis
7. Jagr
8. Lafleur
9. Coffey
10. Forsberg

Then players like Sakic, Yzerman, Thornton, Leetch, Gilmour, Clarke, Lafontaine, Stastny, Beliveau, follow.

Crosby would be closer to Sedin than he is to Jagr and Forsberg. In fact Crosby could probably be slotted at number 20 behind all the players I named above.

Lol buddy srry you need to get out of the past... Henrik Sedin is a top 10 playmaker all time, with Thornton, and Crosby (at this point in time) maybe a bit below them...

Howe and Lafluer aren't top 10 and imo Francis is debatable aswell

Habs 4 Life 12-16-2012 05:48 AM

Crosby

JAS 39 Gripen 12-16-2012 06:24 AM

......... 4th all time after the 'big 3' says it all.

livewell68 12-16-2012 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 56581105)
Because.


EDIT: For the lazy, Crosby is 5th all time in the NHL in assists per game through 7 seasons (behing Gretzky, Lemieux, Stastny, Orr), Forsberg is 7th, Jagr is 29th. Of course, you could make the argument that Jagr's remarkable consistency would place him the highest, but there is certainly an argument for Crosby.

Exactly through 7 seasons.

We all know what playing longer does do your per game averages.

In fact we don't need to look further than Jagr himself. In his first 806 games (the full 11 seasons he played in Pittsburgh) he had 640 assists which is an APG of 0.79. This was of course his prime.

His APG dropped as he continued to play. If by the time Crosby has played over 1000 games and his APG is still higher than Jagr's then I will say he's pretty good.

livewell68 12-16-2012 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure All Day (Post 56583171)
Put Crosby in the exact same time frame as Jagr, and I'm certain he would outproduce him.

Crosby is just the biggest try-hard to ever play the game... always will be the best when he's on his game

.... and Jagr was bigger, stronger, more skilled and just overall more talented.

Sure scoring has gone done a bit in the last few years, but Jagr did most of his damage when stick obstructions were seldom called.

The period between 1997-98 and 2000-01 when Jagr won 4 of his 5 Art Ross trophies saw Jagr lead the league in assists 3 times and would have most likely led the league a 4th time had he played more than 63 games (where he still had 54 assists to finish 3rd yet). That same period's scoring was also lower scoring than at any time post-lockout.

Jagr used to have 2 6'6, 240 lbs defensemen hanging on him and yet he made players look foolish consistently.

livewell68 12-16-2012 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure All Day (Post 56583189)
Lol buddy srry you need to get out of the past... Henrik Sedin is a top 10 playmaker all time, with Thornton, and Crosby (at this point in time) maybe a bit below them...

Howe and Lafluer aren't top 10 and imo Francis is debatable aswell

I feel sorry for you. I bet you think the NHL started in 2005 don't you?

Thornton, Crosby and Sedin are not top 10 playmakers and outside of Crosby who can still pick up his pace, Sedin and Thornton have already peaked and are on the downsides of their careers.

It's not called living in the past. It's called having a perspective on the history of the NHL.

Give players of the past the same kind of equipment and training methods as today's players and I think the results for the players in the past might be even more impressive.

Howe and Lafleur are most definitely better playmakers than any of the current set of NHL players. Howe was a Right Wing that led the league in assits countless times. Lafleur did the same playing an era with guys like Dionne, Trottier, Orr, Clarke.

Jagr was another winger that led the league in assists countless times. Find me a Winger nowadays that can claim to the be the league's best playmaker.

I'll say this, if Jagr was still in his prime (not this 40 year old version of him), he'd be skating circles around the rest of the NHL. He was Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby into one offensively.

If you think Crosby and Malkin are great puck possession players, then just go look at Jagr. If you think Ovechkin is an explosive skater with a great shot, have a look at Jagr's clips from his glory days.

As for stickhandling and passing, forget about it.


MrFunnyWobbl 12-16-2012 09:15 AM

sidcros

Evincar 12-16-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bure All Day (Post 56583171)
Put Crosby in the exact same time frame as Jagr, and I'm certain he would outproduce him.

Put Jagr and Forsberg in post-lockout and I'm certain they would outproduce Crosby. See what I did there?

Barrie22 12-16-2012 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livewell68 (Post 56583875)
I feel sorry for you. I bet you think the NHL started in 2005 don't you?

Thornton, Crosby and Sedin are not top 10 playmakers and outside of Crosby who can still pick up his pace, Sedin and Thornton have already peaked and are on the downsides of their careers.

It's not called living in the past. It's called having a perspective on the history of the NHL.

Give players of the past the same kind of equipment and training methods as today's players and I think the results for the players in the past might be even more impressive.

Howe and Lafleur are most definitely better playmakers than any of the current set of NHL players. Howe was a Right Wing that led the league in assits countless times. Lafleur did the same playing an era with guys like Dionne, Trottier, Orr, Clarke.

Jagr was another winger that led the league in assists countless times. Find me a Winger nowadays that can claim to the be the league's best playmaker.

I'll say this, if Jagr was still in his prime (not this 40 year old version of him), he'd be skating circles around the rest of the NHL. He was Ovechkin, Malkin and Crosby into one offensively.

If you think Crosby and Malkin are great puck possession players, then just go look at Jagr. If you think Ovechkin is an explosive skater with a great shot, have a look at Jagr's clips from his glory days.

As for stickhandling and passing, forget about it.


it would be nice to be on the downside of a career and still be top 5 in assists for thornton and h.sedin


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