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-   -   Value of: Calgary = Duchene / O'reilly (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1308797)

StanJonathan* 12-16-2012 10:05 PM

Calgary = Duchene / O'reilly
 
What would it take Calgary get either Duchene or O'Reilly from Colorado. At this point the only player I would take off the table would be Baertschi.

I was thinking for Duchene somewhere along the lines of Bowmeester and 2013 2nd. Gives E Johnson someone to play with as he could stay his DFD style and allow Bowmeester to have the freedom he had in Florida. However I dont know how attached Colorado fans are to them. If this was already discussed I apologize.

MOD EDIT: Changed to 'Value Of'

GoAwayDanCleary 12-16-2012 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresco (Post 56608961)
What would it take Calgary get either Duchene or O'Reilly from Colorado. At this point the only player I would take off the table would be Baertschi.

I was thinking for Duchene somewhere along the lines of Bowmeester and 2013 2nd. Gives E Johnson someone to play with as he could stay his DFD style and allow Bowmeester to have the freedom he had in Florida. However I dont know how attached Colorado fans are to them. If this was already discussed I apologize.

Because of age and Bouwmeester's contract I think you'd have to at least add a 1st if not more.

Avs44 12-16-2012 10:16 PM

:laugh: Duchene for JBO+2nd? Try again buddy. Not even close. We are not interested in trading our centers, especially to an in division team. Oh, and I'm afraid if you want Duchene, you can't put guys like Baertschi on your untouchable list. If Baertschi is on your untouchable list, then Duchene and O'Reilly are on ours.

hlaverty06 12-16-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avs44 (Post 56609341)
:laugh: Duchene for JBO+2nd? Try again buddy. Not even close. We are not interested in trading our centers, especially to an in division team. Oh, and I'm afraid if you want Duchene, you can't put guys like Baertschi on your untouchable list. If Baertschi is on your untouchable list, then Duchene and O'Reilly are on ours.

I feel like if you guys so desperately need a top DMan to play with EJ one of them has to move. Not saying Jbo is the guy

Pierce Hawthorne 12-16-2012 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresco (Post 56608961)
What would it take Calgary get either Duchene or O'Reilly from Colorado. At this point the only player I would take off the table would be Baertschi.

I was thinking for Duchene somewhere along the lines of Bowmeester and 2013 2nd. Gives E Johnson someone to play with as he could stay his DFD style and allow Bowmeester to have the freedom he had in Florida. However I dont know how attached Colorado fans are to them. If this was already discussed I apologize.

This isnt even close to being acceptable for the Avs.

Bowmeester is, at least in my opinion, a solid Dman cabable of Top pairing minutes, but even so he's still 1.5-2M overpaid, and is kind of old(Compared to the rest of the Avs at least). Some will even argue that Bowmeester isnt a Top pairing Dman and they have a legitimate argument, so basically a borderling Top 2/4 Dman for a young stud in Duchene isnt close.


In my honest opinion, I dont think Calgary has the assets it would take for Colorado to move Duchene or Oreilly. Baertschi would be nice, but the Avs arent interested in trading for prospects at this point, and therefore moving back in the rebuild. And outside of Baertschi theres really not a whole lot in Calgary right now.***

***Excluding the all holy Jankowski, as we all know it would take Duchene + Oreilly to get Jankowski.

Pierce Hawthorne 12-16-2012 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 56609517)
I feel like if you guys so desperately need a top DMan to play with EJ one of them has to move. Not saying Jbo is the guy

Well obviously we would have too move one of our Centers, we just dont have enough overall depth too build a package for a Top pairing Dman without creating a buch of other holes, so yes one of our 3 centers would have to be traded.

But Jbo is not the answer, he's about 2M overpaid and 2-3 years over the age group of the Avs, and IMO we could easily get a better Dman for Oreilly or Duchene?

If the Avs were to move Oreilly or Duchene, it would be for Dmen like Subban/McDonagh/Myers/Hedman/Staal/etc, guys that are in there early-mid 20's and still have the potentialy to improve from what they are now, similar to Duchene and Orielly.

No disrespect to Jbo, as I feel Im one of the few people who actually do believe he's still a Top pairing Dman, he simply doesnt have close to the value of Duchene or Oreilly and doesnt fit the Avs mold.

Avs44 12-16-2012 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 56609517)
I feel like if you guys so desperately need a top DMan to play with EJ one of them has to move. Not saying Jbo is the guy

Yes. But not for Bouwmeester. Honestly, really nothing on Calgary that interests me for Duchene or O'Reilly. If we trade one of those two, I want a top young defensman with similar potential.

capitalsrock 12-16-2012 10:48 PM

Avs fans need to realize that you aren't going to keep three top 6 centers for a long time. They could easily downgrade at the 3rd line center position and wouldn't be so bad while acquiring a top line d-man.

COL:

O'Reilly

CGY:

Bouwmeester
Stajan
Prospect/2nd rounder

Avs downgrade at center but get top pairing d-man.

Vankiller Whale 12-16-2012 10:51 PM

Something around Bouwmeester + Backlund for Stastny, maybe?

TheHudlinator 12-16-2012 10:52 PM

This is terrible for Calgary if we make this trade our fans will expect us to win trades in a landside all the time that is just to much pressure.

Nalens Oga 12-16-2012 10:54 PM

Duchene/O'Reilly are two of my favourite Avs and I don't want to see my team trading two forwards with the highest potential on the team when their needs are scoring more than anything atm.

And Backlund's such a boring player. Tonnes of other decent 2-way young centres with decent potential like him around the league (Colorado being a team that has some of which in their farm).

Avs44 12-16-2012 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalsrock (Post 56610707)
Avs fans need to realize that you aren't going to keep three top 6 centers for a long time. They could easily downgrade at the 3rd line center position and wouldn't be so bad while acquiring a top line d-man.

COL:

O'Reilly

CGY:

Bouwmeester
Stajan
Prospect/2nd rounder

Avs downgrade at center but get top pairing d-man.

Oh, we can't? Please, do tell why not. Is it because of the cap? No, can't be that. If we can afford the 10+ million you're giving us in this deal, you can't have meant cap issues...If we can afford JBO and a cap dump, we can certainly afford 3 centers. Your logic is flawed. So yeah, I don't see why we can't keep them all. Please excuse me if I say no to trading O'Reilly for a top pairing D earning 6.6m a year, a cap dump, and a 2nd.

StanJonathan* 12-16-2012 11:02 PM

I just threw Jbo in as one player how I seen as a fit for Colorado but I mean I am open for others if you prefer. I dont want this to turn into a Jbow hate fest. others are on the table I mean Giordano, Backlund, Kipper, Iggy etc...I threw in Jbow because most dont understand him. he is playing a shutdown def rather than an Off Def that he naturally is. He is playing 1st line shutdown with Butler a guy who had a hard time cracking that Sabres lineup period. In his defense, playing on a team that had only 2 people crack the 50 point barrier and not one cracking to 70 point with a 6th-7th def as his partner going up against the top lines I think he is pretty good.

Avs44 12-16-2012 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresco (Post 56611251)
I just threw Jbo in as one player how I seen as a fit for Colorado but I mean I am open for others if you prefer. I dont want this to turn into a Jbow hate fest. others are on the table I mean Giordano, Backlund, Kipper, Iggy etc...I threw in Jbow because most dont understand him. he is playing a shutdown def rather than an Off Def that he naturally is. He is playing 1st line shutdown with Butler a guy who had a hard time cracking that Sabres lineup period. In his defense, playing on a team that had only 2 people crack the 50 point barrier and not one cracking to 70 point with a 6th-7th def as his partner going up against the top lines I think he is pretty good.

I don't hate JBO, he is still an excellent defensman. He gets the hate he does because of his cap. The Avs just have no interest in trading on our top young centers for a 29 year old JBO earning 6.8m a year. We want someone with similar potential to who we are trading who fits in with the rest of our core. Nor would we have interest in guys like Iggy, who is to old, or Kipper, who we don't need, and certainly not Backlund. I love Giordano, but again, not exactly what we are looking for, plays wrong side, and I doubt Flames want to move him. The Flames really don't have anything that interests us enough to give up Duchene/ROR.

Skip2myBordyloo 12-16-2012 11:09 PM

would rather have giordano, just sayin.

JoemAvs 12-16-2012 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresco (Post 56611251)
I just threw Jbo in as one player how I seen as a fit for Colorado but I mean I am open for others if you prefer. I dont want this to turn into a Jbow hate fest. others are on the table I mean Giordano, Backlund, Kipper, Iggy etc...I threw in Jbow because most dont understand him. he is playing a shutdown def rather than an Off Def that he naturally is. He is playing 1st line shutdown with Butler a guy who had a hard time cracking that Sabres lineup period. In his defense, playing on a team that had only 2 people crack the 50 point barrier and not one cracking to 70 point with a 6th-7th def as his partner going up against the top lines I think he is pretty good.

The problem is that none of them fits the age group of our core.
The only thing I could see because of that is something around Giordiano or Bouwmeester for Stastny. But I really would not like that for multiple reasons. One is that we don't really know yet what we have in ROR and Duchene. Than there is the contract situation with ROR. And I am not a fan of Bouwmeester and his contract at all.

Sorry. I really don't see a feasible deal with Calgary that excludes Baertschi right now. Especially when we really don't know what happens with 1st round picks (season?no season? what lottery system?)
If you add in to the equation that we are in the same division, it really seems close to impossible.

StanJonathan* 12-16-2012 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoemAvs (Post 56611457)
The problem is that none of them fits the age group of our core.
The only thing I could see because of that is something around Giordiano or Bouwmeester for Stastny. But I really would not like that for multiple reasons. One is that we don't really know yet what we have in ROR and Duchene. Than there is the contract situation with ROR. And I am not a fan of Bouwmeester and his contract at all.

Sorry. I really don't see a feasible deal with Calgary that excludes Baertschi right now. Especially when we really don't know what happens with 1st round picks (season?no season? what lottery system?)
If you add in to the equation that we are in the same division, it really seems close to impossible.

I understand that your core group is young but def develop slower and they dont usually hit their prime until 28-31. A young team also needs veterans who can coach the younger guys on the ice. Bowmeester would fit your core group well with his speed and being the product of both a offensive and a defensive system. Avs have a speedy team and Bowmeester has good vision and speed to make plays on the same speed as most of your team. Yes his contract is 1.8m over priced but Avs have 16M free and Bowmeesters contract is only 2 years.

Benjamin 12-16-2012 11:41 PM

There's literally nothing Calgary could offer to get ROR or Duchene.

Avs44 12-16-2012 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresco (Post 56612079)
I understand that your core group is young but def develop slower and they dont usually hit their prime until 28-31. A young team also needs veterans who can coach the younger guys on the ice. Bowmeester would fit your core group well with his speed and being the product of both a offensive and a defensive system. Avs have a speedy team and Bowmeester has good vision and speed to make plays on the same speed as most of your team. Yes his contract is 1.8m over priced but Avs have 16M free and Bowmeesters contract is only 2 years.

We need someone who fits in with the age of our core, that's not even debatable really. We can get veteran leadership with guys like Hedjuk. Were not going to be making a huge move like trading Duchene/ROR for someone older because they bring what we can get elsewhere. He is a UFA in 2 years? Even worse. He could walk as soon as the Avs start hitting their prime. We need a long term solution if were trading ROR/Duchene. We are not ready to compete yet, so we certainly won't be trading young talent for someone like JBO who might not be here when we really would need him. Like I have said, we have no interest in anything based around ROR/Duchene for JBO.

BrickAHL 12-17-2012 12:20 AM

Baertschi can't be untouchable if you want either of these guys.

TurdFerguson 12-17-2012 12:26 AM

JBo for Stastny? Their contracts are almost exactly the same (80k difference, same term).

CoachBadkitten 12-17-2012 12:30 AM

Bart would HAVE to be included.

Jets 12-17-2012 02:23 AM

We all know that as soon as the lockout is over and ROR is signed that the Av's are trading Stastny + Barrie for Byfuglien + Cormier. It's just common knowledge really.

Bonzai12 12-17-2012 02:47 AM

Pierre Lacroix shipping out an exciting young center to the Flames for a defensemen.

Didn't work out so well the first time. And with all the flack he got for it, I can't believe Lacroix would do it again....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...rury_ap_01.jpg

garret9 12-17-2012 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jets (Post 56614161)
We all know that as soon as the lockout is over and ROR is signed that the Av's are trading Stastny + Barrie for Byfuglien + Cormier. It's just common knowledge really.

Might as well throw in Postma if we're getting Barrie back... or trade the Postman elsewhere?

Would we really want two needing to be sheltered offensive RH Dmen.


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