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-   -   Value of: Jonas Brodin to Leafs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1309147)

Fearless Leaf* 12-17-2012 11:14 PM

Jonas Brodin to Leafs
 
First off, I know he is pretty highly regarded by Minnesota but I would like to gauge his value.

so Wild fans, what would it take to pry him away? What would the Leafs need to overpay to get him in our system?

Brodin is the exact type of defender we need in our system.

Anyone outside Kessel, Phaneuf, and Rielly are untouchables.

Willing to give up attractive peices:
Jofferey Lupul - Put him on a line with Koivu and Parise, and he can use his body and work to open up space for them and can also score goals.
JVR - Most Leafs fans will be mad at me for giving up early but he is one of the few pieces I would trade for Brodin.
Kulemin - great two-way player, can be a gret 3rd liner and capable of playing well on the 2nd line, he can form a very strong top 9 for Wild.
Gardiner - Although he shows great promise, for Brodin, I wouldn't hesistate one bit trading him.
Kadri
- he is just ripping up the AHL as Centre and doesn't look like a liability defensively anymore.

Of course, some of these need to be included in a package to get things on the path.

so what do say?

Mike Bobcat 12-17-2012 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf (Post 56636777)
Gardiner - Although he shows great promise, for Brodin, I wouldn't hesistate one bit trading him.


How and why would anyone not be hesitant to trade a player like Gardiner for Brodin who has yet to play a game in the big league?

Besides the Leafs are set on the blue line, those players you've listed should only be traded for upgrade in goal or the C position.

Billy Mays Here* 12-17-2012 11:31 PM

We Wild fans do indeed value Brodin very highly. Only Granlund is valued higher in our prospect pool. It's no secret that our defense, even with the Suter signing, is still poor and we see Brodin as the biggest part of improving it. More than Scandella, more than Dumba, and more than almost any trade we could make. That being said, even Brodin has a price and I would definitely consider a trade for Gardiner. The fact that Gardiner is a Minnesota boy is just an added bonus. There is not a chance in hell that Brodin is traded for anything less than an improvement on defense. The Wild would have no interest trading him for more scoring punch up front. If the Wild ever trade Brodin in the next year or two, it's going to be in a package deal for a top 2 d-man to play alongside Suter or for a promising young top 4 d-man with lots of upside. I think Gardiner fits the latter of those 2 options.

Puhis 12-18-2012 12:40 AM

I think it's safe to say Brodin wouldn't be traded, because there's no point trading him at this point of his career (barring a massive overpayment of course).

We're not interested in Kadri. We have Granlund, Phillips, Larsson and Coyle (to an extent), who are all C and already playing in AHL. We also have Graovac and Haula in our system.

JVR is an interesting player, and one that we could actually use. However, he still is a forward and we don't really need him right now as we're quite stacked on F already. Same goes for Lupul and Kulemin, while they would make most teams instantly better, they really don't have room in our system.

Now, as for Gardiner... Well, he is an interesting player. However, he's still below Brodin in value, and I don't think Toronto is willing to add Carl Gunnarsson to the package.

Sorry, I don't see how this could work. Both teams are in need of D and swapping D-men is not going to help it. I would love to trade one or two of our forwards, but as someone said in the Gunnarsson trade thread, your needs are on D, goaltending and top-6 C. While we have a solid depth on the last two, we really can't afford to give up on D right now, at least not Brodin.

Vankiller Whale 12-18-2012 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow (Post 56638781)
I think it's safe to say Brodin wouldn't be traded, because there's no point trading him at this point of his career (barring a massive overpayment of course).

We're not interested in Kadri. We have Granlund, Phillips, Larsson and Coyle (to an extent), who are all C and already playing in AHL. We also have Graovac and Haula in our system.

JVR is an interesting player, and one that we could actually use. However, he still is a forward and we don't really need him right now as we're quite stacked on F already. Same goes for Lupul and Kulemin, while they would make most teams instantly better, they really don't have room in our system.

Now, as for Gardiner... Well, he is an interesting player. However, he's still below Brodin in value, and I don't think Toronto is willing to add Carl Gunnarsson to the package.

Sorry, I don't see how this could work. Both teams are in need of D and swapping D-men is not going to help it. I would love to trade one or two of our forwards, but as someone said in the Gunnarsson trade thread, your needs are on D, goaltending and top-6 C. While we have a solid depth on the last two, we really can't afford to give up on D right now, at least not Brodin.

I'm curious as to your reasoning for this. Brodin is a stellar prospect, no doubt, but to assume he holds more value than the leader in scoring for rookie Dmen seems a little presumptious.

Nihiliste 12-18-2012 12:44 AM

With Phaneuf, Gardiner, Reilly, and Gunnarsson for relatively young LHD why would the Leafs want to give up significant assets for Brodin?

Billy Mays Here* 12-18-2012 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 56638825)
I'm curious as to your reasoning for this. Brodin is a stellar prospect, no doubt, but to assume he holds more value than the leader in scoring for rookie Dmen seems a little presumptious.

I'm curious as well. I love Brodin as a prospect, but until he plays at the NHL level and out-produces Gardiner, I will hold Gardiner in higher regard.

Puhis 12-18-2012 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale (Post 56638825)
I'm curious as to your reasoning for this. Brodin is a stellar prospect, no doubt, but to assume he holds more value than the leader in scoring for rookie Dmen seems a little presumptious.

I forgot to add "to us". It's 8.45am in Finland and I've been up all night, gimme a break. :laugh:

But yeah, while Gardiner can put up a lot of points, we don't really need him right now. Of course he would be a stellar piece to have, but we already have Gilbert and Spurgeon as offensive D-men in our roster. We don't really need to push them down the depth chart.

That's why I said I'd rather have Gunnarsson. His value is not as high as Gardiner's, who is coming off an excellent season, and he actually fits our needs better.

As Fearless Leaf mentioned, Brodin is very highly regarded by Minnesota and I believe he is also one of our so-called "untouchables" along with Granlund, Koivu and possibly Coyle.

n00bxQb 12-18-2012 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow (Post 56638781)
I think it's safe to say Brodin wouldn't be traded, because there's no point trading him at this point of his career (barring a massive overpayment of course).

We're not interested in Kadri. We have Granlund, Phillips, Larsson and Coyle (to an extent), who are all C and already playing in AHL. We also have Graovac and Haula in our system.

JVR is an interesting player, and one that we could actually use. However, he still is a forward and we don't really need him right now as we're quite stacked on F already. Same goes for Lupul and Kulemin, while they would make most teams instantly better, they really don't have room in our system.

Now, as for Gardiner... Well, he is an interesting player. However, he's still below Brodin in value, and I don't think Toronto is willing to add Carl Gunnarsson to the package.

Sorry, I don't see how this could work. Both teams are in need of D and swapping D-men is not going to help it. I would love to trade one or two of our forwards, but as someone said in the Gunnarsson trade thread, your needs are on D, goaltending and top-6 C. While we have a solid depth on the last two, we really can't afford to give up on D right now, at least not Brodin.

Finishes last in the league in goal scoring by a mile, claims the team is stacked at the primary goal scoring positions :loony:

Puhis 12-18-2012 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00bxQb (Post 56639271)
Finishes last in the league in goal scoring by a mile, claims the team is stacked at the primary goal scoring positions :loony:

We ran a top line of Heatley-Brodziak-Johnson for a good portion of last season, with Powe as our 2nd line winger. We even had Warren ****ing Peters as our 1st line C at one point.

Injury problems? Yeah.

Even if you're a Vanny fan, there still no need to claim that I'm crazy and get personal like that.

We have Parise, Koivu, Heatley, Setoguchi, Bouchard, Cullen, Granlund, Coyle and Zucker, all ready to play in our top-6 right now. We also have Brodziak, Clutterbuck, Mitchell, Powe, Konopka, Veilleux, Dowell, Kassian, McIntyre, Bulmer, Palmieri and perhaps Larsson ready to play in our bottom-6.

Our depth is on a different planet compared to last year, and not a single one of those players would look out of place on an NHL roster. Our line-up on forward would probably look like this:

Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Cullen-Granlund-Setoguchi
Bouchard-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Mitchell-Konopka-Powe
Veilleux/Dowell

So yeah, we're stacked on offense.

n00bxQb 12-18-2012 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow (Post 56639481)
We ran a top line of Heatley-Brodziak-Johnson for a good portion of last season, with Powe as our 2nd line winger. We even had Warren ****ing Peters as our 1st line C at one point.

Injury problems? Yeah.

Even if you're a Vanny fan, there still no need to claim that I'm crazy and get personal like that.

We have Parise, Koivu, Heatley, Setoguchi, Bouchard, Cullen, Granlund, Coyle and Zucker, all ready to play in our top-6 right now. We also have Brodziak, Clutterbuck, Mitchell, Powe, Konopka, Veilleux, Dowell, Kassian, McIntyre, Bulmer, Palmieri and perhaps Larsson ready to play in our bottom-6.

Our depth is on a different planet compared to last year, and not a single one of those players would look out of place on an NHL roster. Our line-up on forward would probably look like this:

Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Cullen-Granlund-Setoguchi
Bouchard-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Mitchell-Konopka-Powe
Veilleux/Dowell

So yeah, we're stacked on offense.

No other teams had injuries? Only Minnesota? 7 teams had more man-games lost to injury than Minnesota. Also, Heatley, Cullen, and Setoguchi all played at least 69 games which is 3/4 of the Top 6 that you have listed that played for MIN last year with only Koivu missing significant time (even then, he still played most of the year). And if MIN has as much depth as you claim, why weren't guys able to step up and contribute offense aside from Brodziak when presented with an opportunity to play a more offensive role?

Minnesota scored 166 goals last year. The Top 6 offenses scored at least 241 goals. Does Granlund and Parise add 75 goals over the course of a season? I doubt it.

Your team will be better than last year with the additions (if the season ever starts), but MIN is in no way stacked at forward. Saying things that imply Cullen/Setoguchi > or = Lupul is going to prompt a response.

Puhis 12-18-2012 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00bxQb (Post 56640561)
No other teams had injuries? Only Minnesota? 7 teams had more man-games lost to injury than Minnesota. Also, Heatley, Cullen, and Setoguchi all played at least 69 games which is 3/4 of the Top 6 that you have listed that played for MIN last year with only Koivu missing significant time (even then, he still played most of the year). And if MIN has as much depth as you claim, why weren't guys able to step up and contribute offense aside from Brodziak when presented with an opportunity to play a more offensive role?

Minnesota scored 166 goals last year. The Top 6 offenses scored at least 241 goals. Does Granlund and Parise add 75 goals over the course of a season? I doubt it.

Your team will be better than last year with the additions (if the season ever starts), but MIN is in no way stacked at forward. Saying things that imply Cullen/Setoguchi > or = Lupul is going to prompt a response.

Reading comprehension, dude.

Our depth is better because we have a lot of prospects coming up and we made some good moves over the summer.

I never said Cullen/Setoguchi >= Lupul. I said there wouldn't be a point in making a trade that would make us weaker instead of stronger because of our forward depth and upcoming prospects.

I would be very surprised if Minnesota would make a trade anytime soon.

ThatGuy22 12-18-2012 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00bxQb (Post 56640561)
No other teams had injuries? Only Minnesota? 7 teams had more man-games lost to injury than Minnesota. Also, Heatley, Cullen, and Setoguchi all played at least 69 games which is 3/4 of the Top 6 that you have listed that played for MIN last year with only Koivu missing significant time (even then, he still played most of the year). And if MIN has as much depth as you claim, why weren't guys able to step up and contribute offense aside from Brodziak when presented with an opportunity to play a more offensive role?

Minnesota scored 166 goals last year. The Top 6 offenses scored at least 241 goals. Does Granlund and Parise add 75 goals over the course of a season? I doubt it.

Your team will be better than last year with the additions (if the season ever starts), but MIN is in no way stacked at forward. Saying things that imply Cullen/Setoguchi > or = Lupul is going to prompt a response.

The depth guys that have high end offense, were either in Juniors, college or overseas still last year. Also it goes without saying that adding a number 1 winger knocks everyone else back a peg making them deeper. The Wild were middle of the pack in goals when Koivu and PMB in last december, and once that happened their offense imploded.

I think the problem with these trades is that the Wild are going to absolutely need guys on their ELCs and early contracts in order to stay competitive. I really dont see them trading any of them in the immediate future.

forthewild 12-19-2012 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00bxQb (Post 56640561)
No other teams had injuries? Only Minnesota? 7 teams had more man-games lost to injury than Minnesota. Also, Heatley, Cullen, and Setoguchi all played at least 69 games which is 3/4 of the Top 6 that you have listed that played for MIN last year with only Koivu missing significant time (even then, he still played most of the year). And if MIN has as much depth as you claim, why weren't guys able to step up and contribute offense aside from Brodziak when presented with an opportunity to play a more offensive role?

Minnesota scored 166 goals last year. The Top 6 offenses scored at least 241 goals. Does Granlund and Parise add 75 goals over the course of a season? I doubt it.

Your team will be better than last year with the additions (if the season ever starts), but MIN is in no way stacked at forward. Saying things that imply Cullen/Setoguchi > or = Lupul is going to prompt a response.

No other team lost half of their top 6 in two weeks time, we lost our number 1 center, two top 6 wingers and had no one with the skillset to replace them, or ever hold their place (all those guys who could have come in to hold the place were either in CHL, NCAA, or finland)

going back to this value reading, i would say at this time Gardiner is better then Brodin since he has played in NHL, but its one of those situations that Minnesota wouldn't want to trade Brodin for Gardiner straight up if it were offered because Brodin could bloom to be a better player.

Now if you guys want Dumba.....

Anchor Town* 12-19-2012 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow (Post 56639481)
Parise-Koivu-Heatley
Cullen-Granlund-Setoguchi
Bouchard-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Mitchell-Konopka-Powe
Veilleux/Dowell

So yeah, we're stacked on offense.

Lol at calling this "stacked". There's one good line there and a couple other decent pieces

7even 12-19-2012 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the banks (Post 56666457)
Lol at calling this "stacked". There's one good line there and a couple other decent pieces

I dunno man I think that top 6 could do some damage as long as Granlund doesn't hit any speed bumps.

Tim Vezina Thomas 12-19-2012 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the banks (Post 56666457)
Lol at calling this "stacked". There's one good line there and a couple other decent pieces

Clearly not what he meant. Why would Minnesota trade an arm and a leg for Kulemin/Macarthur type players when they have a lot of them already on the roster? Lupul might make sense, but it obviously depends on what his trade value is.

They are absolutely "stacked" when it comes to depth, which is why trading anything of value for pieces they already have is stupid.

Wingsfan2965* 12-19-2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the banks (Post 56666457)
Lol at calling this "stacked". There's one good line there and a couple other decent pieces

Plus a crap defense (Yeah, they have Suter, outside of that...) and average goaltending.

Jesus, if I look at that description without knowing the team you'd think it was Anaheim...

North Metro Peewees 12-19-2012 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 (Post 56670655)
Plus a crap defense (Yeah, they have Suter, outside of that...) and average goaltending.

Jesus, if I look at that description without knowing the team you'd think it was Anaheim...

Calling the Wild defense outside of Suter crap is a bit premature. There are a number of young unproven d-men. Now, it sounds like there could be some sour grapes given the fact all I heard last season was how Suter would sign with your Wings.

I'd rather have a young unproven defense with potential than count on the group the Wings have coming up.

The top 5 of Suter, Gilbert, Spurgeon, Scandella and Brodin is a pretty skilled group.

forthewild 12-20-2012 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 (Post 56670655)
Plus a crap defense (Yeah, they have Suter, outside of that...) and average goaltending.

Jesus, if I look at that description without knowing the team you'd think it was Anaheim...

Our D is going to be fine, we didn't just add Suter we added Parise, we have some skilled forward coming up and Scandella rebounded in the 2nd half, plus he was one of the leaders for rookie TOM. also regarding our goaltending and mind you this is with a weak defense as you claim

Player Name GP GAA W L T Pct
Matt Hackett 12 2.38 3 6 0 0.921
Niklas Backstrom 46 2.43 19 18 7 0.919
Josh Harding 34 2.62 13 12 4 0.917

and these numbers include when our team was missing 3 top 6 forwards and couldn't do much on defense to get the puck up ice with the majority of dman being weak at transition, we had Spurgeon other then him the other dman we had were bad at getting puck out of zone.

Schultz, Zannon, Zidlicky, were dog crap awful, and we had no Koivu or Butch to help out instead we used guys like Warren Peters as a top 6 forward....

With even an AVG defense our goal tending is going to be solid, now this year we also have BNTG (Bloomington Native Tom Gilbers) what ever his oiler days were he was good on transitioning the play and playing big minutes, Suter, Brodin (great at defense and transitioning) Scandella and Spurgeon, so yea our D will be just fine as well as our goal tending

rynryn 12-20-2012 05:41 PM

The Wild org. is very high on Brodin right now, so I think they wouldn't trade him for anything anyone would be willing to give up. I don't think Gardiner would be offered in any real-world scenario, so I'll pass on that one...Normally I'd say yes, of course we'd trade him for Gardiner but I'm not so sure...Part of the reason we went for Dumba over Trouba was because we had Brodin as our "responsible" D anchor of the future. Not like Brodin's stepping out of Juniors, either, as far as their relative experience goes; he's been playing pro hockey against men for years now.

Drew311 12-20-2012 08:24 PM

I would not give up any of those players for Brodin. Possibly Kadri, but it doesn't make sense to give up our top offensive prospect for a two way defensive prospect. The Leafs system is full of promising young defensemen, i.e. Gardiner, Rielly, Finn, Percy, Granberg, Blacker, Nilsson. No reason to add to a position of strength, especially by giving up an established top six forward for a kid that hasn't played an NHL game.

Ovechkid08 12-21-2012 02:43 AM

While I only saw one year of Gardiner at his first year of defense in High school and I haven't payed attention to the Leafs at all, I still wouldn't even consider trading Brodin for Jake straight up. Brodin is a very special player not only cerebralley but his backwards skating is leagues ahead of Gardiner's at the same age. I know its only limited viewings but Gardiner got burned by several players that I considered underrated at the time and exactly zero of those players made the NHL. Game 7 in the playoffs at this point in time and I would easily prefer Brodin out there.

There isn't really any player on the Leafs that I would trade Brodin for within the next 4 years. I liked Kessel on the Gophers too but very few hockey players have displayed the hockey intelligence that Brodin has shown in the games that I have seen, I'm more than willing to gamble that he has a spectacular career even if his physical attributes are not super elite. Optimisim or homerism is what this post will be considered and I know Gardiner's prep career way better than the little I know of Brodin pre-professionally ,but I would be very disappointed if the Wild traded Brodin at any point in his career.

Rielly4 12-23-2012 04:37 PM

Gardiner has way higher value then Brodin, period.

Bookman 12-23-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fearless Leaf (Post 56636777)
First off, I know he is pretty highly regarded by Minnesota but I would like to gauge his value.

so Wild fans, what would it take to pry him away? What would the Leafs need to overpay to get him in our system?

Brodin is the exact type of defender we need in our system.

Anyone outside Kessel, Phaneuf, and Rielly are untouchables.

Willing to give up attractive peices:
Jofferey Lupul - Put him on a line with Koivu and Parise, and he can use his body and work to open up space for them and can also score goals.
JVR - Most Leafs fans will be mad at me for giving up early but he is one of the few pieces I would trade for Brodin.
Kulemin - great two-way player, can be a gret 3rd liner and capable of playing well on the 2nd line, he can form a very strong top 9 for Wild.
Gardiner - Although he shows great promise, for Brodin, I wouldn't hesistate one bit trading him.
Kadri
- he is just ripping up the AHL as Centre and doesn't look like a liability defensively anymore.

Of course, some of these need to be included in a package to get things on the path.

so what do say?

:handclap: You've made a stereotypical Leafs' fan proposal. Love me some Kadri :nod:


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