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-   -   Proposal: Ott - pit (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1309535)

TheKeenKariya 12-19-2012 02:50 AM

Ott - pit
 
Ottawa's prospect strength is in their forwards while Pittsburgh's strength is in their defence. So why don't we help each other out a bit?

Ott:
Matt Puempel
Andre Petersson

Pitt:
Simon Despres

Pittsburgh has a long line of defensive prospects and only has room for so many of them and are looking for some scoring wingers to play with Crosby and Malkin. I believe Puempel would fill that need as he is probably Ottawa's best pure goal scorer. Andre Petersson has struggled this season bringing his value to an all time low but did put up a decent 23 G/44 PTS during his rookie season in the AHL and has the potential to be a top 6 scoring winger.

There are A LOT of options but this is the one I have chosen feel free to play with some other possibilities. I really think OTT and PITT would be great trading partners as they are in different divisions and have completely opposite needs. Here are the players I would want from Pittsburgh.

PITT
Joe Morrow
Simon Despres
Derrick Pouliot
Olli Maatta
Brian Dumoulin
Scott Harrington

While these are the top options for Ottawa forwards.

OTT
Mika Zibanejad
Jakob Silfverberg
Stefan Noesen
Mark Stone
Andre Petersson
Matt Puempel
Shane Prince

Hale The Villain 12-19-2012 03:26 AM

I don't think trading a solid forward prospect for a good defense prospect is a good idea. I think the Sens will have a strong blueline in the future, and I'm more confident in our future defense than our forward group.

Karlsson just won the Norris at age 21
Cowen looks like he'll develop into a rock solid defensive D, perfect partner for EK
Ceci should be a top 4 defenseman one day, his defense needs work but there's no denying his skill, and its in a 6'3, 215lbs body
Methot is still young enough, could be a good bottom pairing defenseman
Wiercioch and Borowiecki are solid d prospects that will get a look as soon as the lockout ends
Couple other guys like Sdao, Wikstrand, Claesson realistically have NHL potential as well

Defense isn't going to be the weakness on this team. Filling out our top 6 will be the difficult part. Hopefully some of the forward prospects you listed will pan out. I don't think we should be trading guys like Prince or Puempel when our top 6 is by no means set for the future.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 12-19-2012 06:04 AM

I'd do Maatta for Silfverberg, since Maatta will probably be a few years off and doesn't provide any one element we need on the blueline, and Silfverberg is a skilled RH shot who's fairly close to the show.

Outside of that, I'm not interested in making any deal involving those players, at least until we see who pans out. Pittsburgh needs a defensive overhaul, and many of their prospects will play a role in that.

wej20 12-19-2012 06:40 AM

If Pens trade one of their D prospects for a Forward prospect then it should be a 1 for 1 swap, Petersson doesn't sound like he'd fit very well with Bylsma anyway.

BonkTastic 12-19-2012 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper (Post 56666563)
I'd do Maatta for Silfverberg, since Maatta will probably be a few years off and doesn't provide any one element we need on the blueline, and Silfverberg is a skilled RH shot who's fairly close to the show.

Outside of that, I'm not interested in making any deal involving those players, at least until we see who pans out. Pittsburgh needs a defensive overhaul, and many of their prospects will play a role in that.

Silfverberg isn't getting dealt.... dude is one of the most underrated prospects in the league right now, IMO.

To give you an idea, just so you know where I stand: within our own system, I personally value him more than Zibanejad, and I think there are more than a few Sens fans who think like I do (though perhaps not the majority). I think he's our most valuable prospect of any D or F we have in the system.

You'd need Maatta ++. And yes, I realize most non-Sens fans would think I'm crazy for suggesting that, which is fine: they're entitled to their opinion. But Jakob Silfverberg is going to be a real, REAL good player in this league. 50-65 point winger who can also play on your 1st PK unit. He can do everything except throw his weight around. He's in Ottawa's top-6 as soon as the CBA gets signed, IMO (though that's probably due both to his skill AND Ottawa's fairly light top-6 at the moment).

He's ready for prime time.

TSA0402 12-19-2012 06:56 AM

The basic issue is that Pittsburgh is going to want Zibanejad or Silfverberg, not Puempel, Prince etc for their better defensive prospects.

Ottawa already has a ton youth on their blue line. I usually hate to say it, but Free Agency will likely be their friend in this case. They don't need a marquee d-man.

OMadahey 12-19-2012 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 56666843)
Silfverberg isn't getting dealt.... dude is one of the most underrated prospects in the league right now, IMO.

To give you an idea, just so you know where I stand: within our own system, I personally value him more than Zibanejad, and I think there are more than a few Sens fans who think like I do (though perhaps not the majority). I think he's our most valuable prospect of any D or F we have in the system.

You'd need Maatta ++. And yes, I realize most non-Sens fans would think I'm crazy for suggesting that, which is fine: they're entitled to their opinion. But Jakob Silfverberg is going to be a real, REAL good player in this league. 50-65 point winger who can also play on your 1st PK unit. He can do everything except throw his weight around. He's in Ottawa's top-6 as soon as the CBA gets signed, IMO (though that's probably due both to his skill AND Ottawa's fairly light top-6 at the moment).

He's ready for prime time.

Quoted for truth
In all honesty Silfverberg isn't getting traded out of Ottawa anytime soon. He has to many similarities to Alfie in my opinion ( one of the reasons he's a fan favourite)
I don't know how Pitt values its defence prospect list but a deal around noesen for matta maybe. Add a 3rd or 2nd heading to the penguins as well probs

FishManSam 12-19-2012 09:12 AM

Ottawa adds a lot... Puempul imho is a long shot to play in the NHL.

hlaverty06 12-19-2012 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hale The Villain (Post 56665973)
I don't think trading a solid forward prospect for a good defense prospect is a good idea. I think the Sens will have a strong blueline in the future, and I'm more confident in our future defense than our forward group.

Karlsson just won the Norris at age 21
Cowen looks like he'll develop into a rock solid defensive D, perfect partner for EK
Ceci should be a top 4 defenseman one day, his defense needs work but there's no denying his skill, and its in a 6'3, 215lbs body
Methot is still young enough, could be a good bottom pairing defenseman
Wiercioch and Borowiecki are solid d prospects that will get a look as soon as the lockout ends
Couple other guys like Sdao, Wikstrand, Claesson realistically have NHL potential as well

Defense isn't going to be the weakness on this team. Filling out our top 6 will be the difficult part. Hopefully some of the forward prospects you listed will pan out. I don't think we should be trading guys like Prince or Puempel when our top 6 is by no means set for the future.

Your future D isn't going to be all your current prospects

yoplait 12-19-2012 10:47 AM

I'm an Ottawa fan and I think Pitts is getting fleeced here. Puempel, while being a solid prospect and who's a natural goalscorer which Pitts needs, isn't close to having Despres' value, and I don't think Petersson holds that much value. I think the idea is there, but that Pitts would probably trade him for a guy closer to the NHL, imo.

Benny FTW 12-19-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 56669949)
Your future D isn't going to be all your current prospects

Well 3 of them are NHLers. Boro and Weir are just about ready for the NHL. Then between Ceci and all the other propsects theres a good chance at least 1 will make the NHL.

Hale The Villain 12-19-2012 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlaverty06 (Post 56669949)
Your future D isn't going to be all your current prospects

Karlsson, Cowen and Methot are in the NHL already, while Wiercioch and Borowiecki are pretty close to NHL ready at this point.

Ceci looks like a pretty safe bet to be a top 4 NHL defenseman. Agreed that the chances for the others I listed aren't as high, but they do have potential. Sens are really high on Sdao, Claesson has been awsome in his first AHL season, and Wikstrand is doing very well in Sweden. These players have NHL potential, they just aren't as close as Wiercioch and Borowiecki.

Sureves 12-19-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoplait (Post 56670055)
I'm an Ottawa fan and I think Pitts is getting fleeced here. Puempel, while being a solid prospect and who's a natural goalscorer which Pitts needs, isn't close to having Despres' value, and I don't think Petersson holds that much value. I think the idea is there, but that Pitts would probably trade him for a guy closer to the NHL, imo.

I agree with this.

SenateReform 12-19-2012 02:29 PM

Ottawa doesn't need any more prospects.

They need NHL talent and preferably a veteran defender with leadership qualities.

Our prospects should only be traded if an NHL player is coming back and improving the team immediately IMO

18Hossa 12-19-2012 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 56666843)
Silfverberg isn't getting dealt.... dude is one of the most underrated prospects in the league right now, IMO.

To give you an idea, just so you know where I stand: within our own system, I personally value him more than Zibanejad, and I think there are more than a few Sens fans who think like I do (though perhaps not the majority). I think he's our most valuable prospect of any D or F we have in the system.

You'd need Maatta ++. And yes, I realize most non-Sens fans would think I'm crazy for suggesting that, which is fine: they're entitled to their opinion. But Jakob Silfverberg is going to be a real, REAL good player in this league. 50-65 point winger who can also play on your 1st PK unit. He can do everything except throw his weight around. He's in Ottawa's top-6 as soon as the CBA gets signed, IMO (though that's probably due both to his skill AND Ottawa's fairly light top-6 at the moment).

He's ready for prime time.

I agree entirely.

MAK19 12-19-2012 03:05 PM

no. Despres has 2nd/3rd pair potential. Not worth two top 6 forwards prospects, even if he is safer than both.

Will Hunting 12-20-2012 07:25 AM

LOL, big NO from Pittsburghīs side. I mean, idea is maybe there, but Puempel is still a longterm project with some questionmarks and with a lot of work to do. Petersson, who is already 22, is just having a bad year, we donīt need average prospects like him. No way this gets you Despres, who is ready to jump into big league.

This wonīt probably get you neither from Maatta/Harrington/Pouliot/Despres/Dumoulin/Morrow. I mean, Pittsburgh has probably the best future on the blueline in the league, but there is a logical reason for that. Pens know how to develop young D-men and they will need them badly.

Aside from Letang, there is a deep hole in a Pensī defense right now. Orpik and Martin arenīt young anymore and I can imagine they wonīt be in the organization in letīs say 2 years from now. Niskanen is another question mark with his short contract and thatīs pretty much all we have. So, Letang is almost all alone there, so the Pens will probably need at least 3 or 4 of their D-prospects completely ready in 2 years. D-pool is stacked, but they know what they are doing. They wonīt trade more than 1 player from these 6 mentioned and IF they are trading that one player, it will be for a best return possible. Zibanejad and Silfverberg are the only interesting possibilities, otherwise we have nothing to talk about here.

internetdotcom 12-20-2012 08:20 AM

Ottawa's fine on the blue line. We will have a top pairing of Karlsson/Cowen for years to come (though not this year obviously), Ceci as mentioned is a very safe bet as at least a middle pairing guy, Methot is locked up and not exactly old, then AHL callups/cheap UFAs can fill out the bottom pairing, and this is not even considering any other draft picks coming up.

We need more top 6 forwards, as the only sure ones we have when Alfie is gone are Spezza, Michalek, and Turris. Silfverberg and Zibanejad have the best shots to become top 6 forwards, but even they arent sure bets. We need to hang onto our forward prospects. Our D will be fine.

SenateReform 12-20-2012 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by internetdotcom (Post 56690631)
Ottawa's fine on the blue line. We will have a top pairing of Karlsson/Cowen for years to come (though not this year obviously), Ceci as mentioned is a very safe bet as at least a middle pairing guy, Methot is locked up and not exactly old, then AHL callups/cheap UFAs can fill out the bottom pairing, and this is not even considering any other draft picks coming up.

We need more top 6 forwards, as the only sure ones we have when Alfie is gone are Spezza, Michalek, and Turris. Silfverberg and Zibanejad have the best shots to become top 6 forwards, but even they arent sure bets. We need to hang onto our forward prospects. Our D will be fine.

Completely agree.

Zirakzigil 12-20-2012 11:32 AM

If we are trading Despres (big if) or any other of our top defensive prospects, its not going to be for a package. Blue chip for blue chip straight up or nothing at all.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 12-20-2012 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonkTastic (Post 56666843)
Silfverberg isn't getting dealt.... dude is one of the most underrated prospects in the league right now, IMO.

To give you an idea, just so you know where I stand: within our own system, I personally value him more than Zibanejad, and I think there are more than a few Sens fans who think like I do (though perhaps not the majority). I think he's our most valuable prospect of any D or F we have in the system.

You'd need Maatta ++. And yes, I realize most non-Sens fans would think I'm crazy for suggesting that, which is fine: they're entitled to their opinion. But Jakob Silfverberg is going to be a real, REAL good player in this league. 50-65 point winger who can also play on your 1st PK unit. He can do everything except throw his weight around. He's in Ottawa's top-6 as soon as the CBA gets signed, IMO (though that's probably due both to his skill AND Ottawa's fairly light top-6 at the moment).

He's ready for prime time.

That's your prerogative. But he's really the only wing prospect on the Sens who would make it worthwhile for the Pens to deal one of their "Big 6" blueline prospects.

None of them are going to be dealt for the package offered in this thread. Let alone the one who looked better than all of the defensemen on the NHL roster outside of Letang last season.

OMadahey 12-20-2012 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper (Post 56698089)
That's your prerogative. But he's really the only wing prospect on the Sens who would make it worthwhile for the Pens to deal one of their "Big 6" blueline prospects.

None of them are going to be dealt for the package offered in this thread. Let alone the one who looked better than all of the defensemen on the NHL roster outside of Letang last season.

Theirs a lot wrong with this post...
Teams trade value for value. So are you really saying none of the sens wing prospect other the. JS have similar/equal or above value then ur so called "top 6 d prospects".
Come on let's be realistic here.
Its pretty obvious that Pittsburgh is having or is about to have a surplus of young good dman. And Ottawa clearly has a surplus of young good forwards. Now i understand not all prospect pan out but both these teams should be trading from a position of strength to address a position of weakness.

Zirakzigil 12-20-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMadahey (Post 56698907)
Theirs a lot wrong with this post...
Teams trade value for value. So are you really saying none of the sens wing prospect other the. JS have similar/equal or above value then ur so called "top 6 d prospects".
Come on let's be realistic here.
Its pretty obvious that Pittsburgh is having or is about to have a surplus of young good dman. And Ottawa clearly has a surplus of young good forwards. Now i understand not all prospect pan out but both these teams should be trading from a position of strength to address a position of weakness.

Why should the Penguins trade quality for quantity? We could just easily wait a few years and do another Goli/Neal instead of trading one of our top prospects for some projects. If you want a guy like Despres then give someone who hold similar value back in your oganization.

OMadahey 12-20-2012 03:09 PM

Personally I've never suggested a quality for quantity deal here. Re-read my post again if its not clear what I was suggesting. Which is...
These 2 teams seem like really good trading partners that could benefit both teams. But if Pitt fans are really thinking that all of their 6 d prospect hold immense value then u guys are clearly gonna get disappointed lol.but anyways

I'd like to see the sens go after either matta or Harrington. What do Pitt fans see as equal value for these 2 prospects individually

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 12-20-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMadahey (Post 56698907)
Theirs a lot wrong with this post...
Teams trade value for value. So are you really saying none of the sens wing prospect other the. JS have similar/equal or above value then ur so called "top 6 d prospects".

Come on let's be realistic here.
Its pretty obvious that Pittsburgh is having or is about to have a surplus of young good dman. And Ottawa clearly has a surplus of young good forwards. Now i understand not all prospect pan out but both these teams should be trading from a position of strength to address a position of weakness.

What I'm saying is that the Pens NHL blueline sucked last year, and will need to be restocked from within. Unless a wing prospect being offered is both of sufficient quality and on the cusp of playing in the NHL (Beau Bennett-esque or better), there's no desire on this end to deal any of the "Big 6".


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