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-   -   DDT: Under/Over rated Preds (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1309717)

Top 6 Spaling 12-19-2012 01:44 PM

Under/Over rated Preds
 
Who do you think are the most under/over rated Preds, both here and by NHL fans at large?

Across the NHL: Roman Josi is underrated, Ryan Ellis is overrated.

By Preds fans: Gabriel Bourque is underrated (league wide too, but not as bad as Josi) and Mike Fisher overrated.

Just my opinions. Who would you pick? In general, I think we have a lot more underrated players than overrated players by NHL fans at large, but thats probably just the homer in me.

PredsV82 12-19-2012 02:42 PM

Klein is underrated. Hornqvist is underrated. I really dont think we have anyone who is truly overrated now that Rads is gone...

Soundgarden 12-19-2012 02:57 PM

No way is Ryan Ellis overrated across the NHL, maybe between Preds fans, but anybody else will just mention how short he is. Every time he reaches a career goal those same people will move on to the next opsticle he has yet to face.

He get's a hundred points with the spitfires, well he won't ever stick in the NHL.
He sticks in the NHL, well he hasn't scored a point yet.
He scores a point… and so on.

Joe T Choker 12-19-2012 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundgarden (Post 56676467)
No way is Ryan Ellis overrated across the NHL, maybe between Preds fans, but anybody else will just mention how short he is. Every time he reaches a career goal those same people will move on to the next opsticle he has yet to face.

He get's a hundred points with the spitfires, well he won't ever stick in the NHL.
He sticks in the NHL, well he hasn't scored a point yet.
He scores a point… and so on.

he's a good player, but is he a future nhl all star player ? ... serious question ... not trolling

Paranoid Android 12-19-2012 04:45 PM

I'd call Erat our most underrated player. IMO he is a that true "1st liner" that everyone says we don't have.

Can't think of any overrated. Maybe Weber, by a hair.

Oh, Legwand of course :sarcasm:

Predatorbill 12-19-2012 06:52 PM

I never thought I would say this, but Rinne's performance so far this year, makes me wonder if Trotz's system helps our goaltenders more than we think. He may be a little overrated, but I love watching him play.

Cashville 12-20-2012 09:17 AM

Underrated
Erat - Erat is my favorite Preds player. He is a really consistent 50-60 point scorer with a complete two-way game (except game 5 Chicago in 2010 *******!)
Josi - Small sample size, but this kid could be a top pairing defenseman for 1/3 to 1/2 the teams out there right now imo.
Bourque - Small sample size though; I don't think most people have even given him a rating

Properly Rated
Klein - There was a ton of interest from Red Wings and Flyers fans at the deadline last year for Kleiner. He's been the whipping boy forever, but I think it's become apparent that he's a solid #3/4 defenseman by most people out there. As such, he is where he should be.
Hornqvist - He used to be underrated, but there has been a lot of interest in him over the past year. That said, he's nearing overrated. He is a slow skater, with poor open ice stickhandling skills, and mediocre defense. As long as he continues to score goals though, he's fine.

Overrated
Ellis - Ellis' success in the CHL and U17 and U18 championships and Canadian background have given him a pretty massive following among Canada's faithful. He's a good player with speed and offensive awareness; that said, I'm still not sold that his game will transition to the NHL well. He's not massively overrated, but if you were to post a trade proposal with Ellis on one side, I think you would get some pretty surprising offers from other teams' fans.
Rinne - I love Pekka, but his sample size is not large enough to justify a top 3 goaltender ranking, which most people give him. This year will be the true test with Suter gone and a young D Corps in front of him. If he still posts a 0.920+ save percentage, he's proven it to me.

I think the rest of the team is largely viewed as they should be; I called out Klein and Hornqvist separately given how much public perception of them has moved recently. Though I think our offense as a whole is still wildly underrated; people act like we're 28th in the league in scoring.

MarkMM 12-20-2012 06:38 PM

Being a Predators fan north of the border, I see a big distinction between over/underrated when it comes to locals/this board and the general talk amongst the rest of the league.

Underrated:

Klein in particular by Nashville fans, I thought he seemed like a solid player when I've seen him play and for what he's paid I would count him as a steal. But then I read these boards and am often like, "Oh man, what am I missing?" (As Cashville mentioned, this may be turning around.)

Erat by the rest of the league, his name doesn't come to mind when talking about dangerous players in the league, but whenever you play Nashville, he seems like the one to watch.

Bourque perhaps, haven't seen all that much of him, but amongst the rest of the league, he's almost an afterthought but most in Nashville I've heard from seem to think he could be a big piece of the future.

Blum by Nashville fans? I heard a lot of frustration with him as being overrated last season when my feeling was that his struggles were entirely natural for a young defenseman's growth curve.

Overrated:

Not trolling, but I wonder a bit about Rinne being a tad overrated in Nashville AND the league. Love him for sure and props to him for signing long-term without drama unlike the other big two, but for $7M/7years, I dunno, the value question starts to nag at me, and as Predatorbill pointed out, how much of that is credited to the suffocating defense? (Dan Ellis with Nashville at times looked like solid starter material.)

Wilson by Nashville fans? He seems the centre of attention either good or bad in discussions with Nashville, but I've never seen him really make much of a difference that grabs your gut and says, "Wow, this guy is taking control" the way other prospects of his stature at least have shown flashes of (Cody Hodgson formerly of Vancouver now with Buffalo, and Zack Kassian formerly of Buffalo now in Vancouver come to mind).

Maybe Ellis by the rest of the league, after his performance at times in the WJC's many whispered that he was a future Paul Coffey, and some here are surprised to hear that he hasn't earned a guaranteed spot on the Preds yet. So outside Nashville, I think Ellis doesn't have the question marks those that follow him closely do.

Beyond the individual, the offense in underrated by fans outside Nashville, the Preds still carry a reputation of dull and boring, but the stats offensively say otherwise. I'd also say that the fanbase gets plenty of props by Vancouver media due to the times Nashville has played Vancouver, but gets underrated by anything out of Toronto as "not a hockey town".

Soundgarden 12-20-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMM (Post 56706209)
Beyond the individual, the offense in underrated by fans outside Nashville, the Preds still carry a reputation of dull and boring, but the stats offensively say otherwise. I'd also say that the fanbase gets plenty of props by Vancouver media due to the times Nashville has played Vancouver, but gets underrated by anything out of Toronto as "not a hockey town".

Toronto fans probably think that because we've only played each other three times or something ridiculous. The last time they played here I believe it was one of only two times that season we dipped below 15,000 in attendance.

PredsV82 12-21-2012 07:47 AM

I just don't think you can judge ellis, josi and bourque yet. They have all had less than one full season.

Cashville 12-21-2012 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkMM (Post 56706209)
Being a Predators fan north of the border, I see a big distinction between over/underrated when it comes to locals/this board and the general talk amongst the rest of the league.

Underrated:

Klein in particular by Nashville fans, I thought he seemed like a solid player when I've seen him play and for what he's paid I would count him as a steal. But then I read these boards and am often like, "Oh man, what am I missing?" (As Cashville mentioned, this may be turning around.)

Erat by the rest of the league, his name doesn't come to mind when talking about dangerous players in the league, but whenever you play Nashville, he seems like the one to watch.

Bourque perhaps, haven't seen all that much of him, but amongst the rest of the league, he's almost an afterthought but most in Nashville I've heard from seem to think he could be a big piece of the future.

Blum by Nashville fans? I heard a lot of frustration with him as being overrated last season when my feeling was that his struggles were entirely natural for a young defenseman's growth curve.

Overrated:

Not trolling, but I wonder a bit about Rinne being a tad overrated in Nashville AND the league. Love him for sure and props to him for signing long-term without drama unlike the other big two, but for $7M/7years, I dunno, the value question starts to nag at me, and as Predatorbill pointed out, how much of that is credited to the suffocating defense? (Dan Ellis with Nashville at times looked like solid starter material.)

Wilson by Nashville fans? He seems the centre of attention either good or bad in discussions with Nashville, but I've never seen him really make much of a difference that grabs your gut and says, "Wow, this guy is taking control" the way other prospects of his stature at least have shown flashes of (Cody Hodgson formerly of Vancouver now with Buffalo, and Zack Kassian formerly of Buffalo now in Vancouver come to mind).

Maybe Ellis by the rest of the league, after his performance at times in the WJC's many whispered that he was a future Paul Coffey, and some here are surprised to hear that he hasn't earned a guaranteed spot on the Preds yet. So outside Nashville, I think Ellis doesn't have the question marks those that follow him closely do.

Beyond the individual, the offense in underrated by fans outside Nashville, the Preds still carry a reputation of dull and boring, but the stats offensively say otherwise. I'd also say that the fanbase gets plenty of props by Vancouver media due to the times Nashville has played Vancouver, but gets underrated by anything out of Toronto as "not a hockey town".

I don't know where to put Blum. He was immensely overrated at the start of last year, but his obvious struggles and lack of NHL time have brought him back to earth. We all know the +/- is not the end all be all stat for defenseman in any fashion, but a -14 in 33 NHL GP last year is scary. I think he falls under the "not enough data to make an opinion" category right now. Frankly, other than some bright spots in 2010, he really hasn't proved anything, and his AHL performance last year was not exactly amazing (-11 with 26 points in 46 games). Thus far this year he has 1 goal, 9 assists, and is -5 in 27 games. I'm pretty concerned about him being on the third pairing if we have a season this year.

Our defense is going to be brutal this year I think. Josi / Weber will be fine, but Josi is still a risk given his age (see Datsyuk pick his pocket and score in the playoffs last year). Who do you put with Klein? I think you put Ellis with Gill on the third pairing to compensate for his parking cone speed. The choice is either Hannan or Blum with Klein; Hannan should not be on the second pairing and Blum could be a disaster there. The wild card is Ekholm; I really hope his accolades in Europe translate to a vastly improved performance from last year because he was damn awful. I haven't seen Trotz call someone out like that, besides Wilson, in a while.

I think we fight hard for an 8 spot if we have a season and are promptly bounced if we make it.

MarkMM 12-21-2012 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashville (Post 56716297)
I don't know where to put Blum. He was immensely overrated at the start of last year, but his obvious struggles and lack of NHL time have brought him back to earth. We all know the +/- is not the end all be all stat for defenseman in any fashion, but a -14 in 33 NHL GP last year is scary. I think he falls under the "not enough data to make an opinion" category right now. Frankly, other than some bright spots in 2010, he really hasn't proved anything, and his AHL performance last year was not exactly amazing (-11 with 26 points in 46 games). Thus far this year he has 1 goal, 9 assists, and is -5 in 27 games. I'm pretty concerned about him being on the third pairing if we have a season this year.

Our defense is going to be brutal this year I think. Josi / Weber will be fine, but Josi is still a risk given his age (see Datsyuk pick his pocket and score in the playoffs last year). Who do you put with Klein? I think you put Ellis with Gill on the third pairing to compensate for his parking cone speed. The choice is either Hannan or Blum with Klein; Hannan should not be on the second pairing and Blum could be a disaster there. The wild card is Ekholm; I really hope his accolades in Europe translate to a vastly improved performance from last year because he was damn awful. I haven't seen Trotz call someone out like that, besides Wilson, in a while.

I think we fight hard for an 8 spot if we have a season and are promptly bounced if we make it.

Ouch. Those are not pretty numbers. Two thoughts on Blum:

1.) When someone gets overrated and then can't live up to hype, it's common that the whiplash happens in the other direction, when the truth will always be in between. He's a talented young prospect in a position that more than most requires experience and seasoning before an honest output shows. I remember when Ohlund was drafted by Vancouver, he was supposed to be the second-coming, then was a relatively unspectacular defenseman when he finally made the roster full-time, and it wasn't until several years in that we woke up one day and he was a bonafide high-end defenseman.

2.) Because of #1, if at all possible, I would try not to rush him. As you laid out, what Nashville needs is another top-four defenseman, hopefully one can be found in free-agency or a trade of some sort, this will shore up a thin back-end and allow Blum to work out his kinks wherever it makes sense, including in the AHL where he gets lots of ice-time if he shows he's not yet mentally there to make decisions in the NHL.


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