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LGB24 12-20-2012 12:04 PM

IIHF World Juniors
 
didn't see a thread on this yet. In the first exhibition game Joel Armia was given player of the game in a 3-2 win against the Canadians. I didn't see the box score, so I wasn't sure his point total I just watched the 3rd, but at the end of the game Ray Ferraro said "If he plays in the tournament like that, that is gonna be a dominant player. I can't believe the difference from last year to this in the effort level and commitment of Joel Armia"

And he wasn't lying, from what I saw Armia was an absolute monster out there. He was fighting for loose puck battles and didn't take a shift off. He led a 3 on 2 did a spin move and set up Granlund point blank in the slot with about 5 minutes left in the 3rd when they were up by 1, however Subban made the save. Then he drew a key slashing call with 2 minutes left in the 3rd while winning a puck battle in the corner. Im excited for this kid

tsujimoto74 12-20-2012 12:18 PM

Gonna be fun to watch this tourney as a Sabres fan. Armia's promising start today has definitely got me pumped to watch more of him/Finland. We'll also have Grigorenko and Makarov to watch with Russia (particularly excited to watch Grigs), and then McCabe with the US (who I've not yet actually seen play).

New Sabres Captain 12-20-2012 12:28 PM

Sucks that Girgensons is not being released, would have been fun to see what he could do in this tourney being the top dog for Latvia. But if his development is better served spending the two weeks in Rochester, then so be it.

SabresBillsBuffalo 12-20-2012 01:17 PM

Phil Housley coaching the Americans!! (:

Stop Winnin 12-20-2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LGB24 (Post 56694939)
didn't see a thread on this yet. In the first exhibition game Joel Armia was given player of the game in a 3-2 win against the Canadians. I didn't see the box score, so I wasn't sure his point total I just watched the 3rd, but at the end of the game Ray Ferraro said "If he plays in the tournament like that, that is gonna be a dominant player. I can't believe the difference from last year to this in the effort level and commitment of Joel Armia"

And he wasn't lying, from what I saw Armia was an absolute monster out there. He was fighting for loose puck battles and didn't take a shift off. He led a 3 on 2 did a spin move and set up Granlund point blank in the slot with about 5 minutes left in the 3rd when they were up by 1, however Subban made the save. Then he drew a key slashing call with 2 minutes left in the 3rd while winning a puck battle in the corner. Im excited for this kid

Good to hear him play well in his first game, hopefully he keeps up with the intensity.

From what I hear from the Finnish fans here that watch him a lot, he can absolutely dominate games when he wants to, which it sounds like he did today, lots of praise for Armia.

GO ARMIAAAAAAA

Qurpiz 12-20-2012 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishire (Post 56698277)
Good to hear him play well in his first game, hopefully he keeps up with the intensity.

From what I hear from the Finnish fans here that watch him a lot, he can absolutely dominate games when he wants to, which it sounds like he did today, lots of praise for Armia.

GO ARMIAAAAAAA

The trick is to make him want it. His coach in Ässät, Karri Kivi, is looking really, really bad now, the whole team seems to be completely out of his control. Many Ässät fans are actually excited to get Joel out of here, under a proper coaching staff. He goes to the U-20 team, and look at that, he looks dominant.

I seriously hope he goes to Rochester after this season, and gets some good coaching. He has all the tools to be a really, really fine player, he just needs someone to screw his head straight every now and then

post #3k

Zip15 12-20-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qurpiz (Post 56698807)
The trick is to make him want it. His coach in Ässät, Karri Kivi, is looking really, really bad now, the whole team seems to be completely out of his control. Many Ässät fans are actually excited to get Joel out of here, under a proper coaching staff. He goes to the U-20 team, and look at that, he looks dominant.

I seriously hope he goes to Rochester after this season, and gets some good coaching. He has all the tools to be a really, really fine player, he just needs someone to screw his head straight every now and then

post #3k

Paging sabrefan27, sabrefan27 to the World Junior thread.

Buffalo87 12-20-2012 04:40 PM

Sounds like Pronman was impressed with him.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=316

I'm kind of starting to worry given that he really hasn't progressed in terms of point totals since his draft season. Granted, there is much more to a prospects game than point totals but ideally you would like to see him progress on the scoresheet.

Woodhouse 12-20-2012 05:33 PM

Thu Dec 20 - WJC Results
 
There were two players scheduled for WJC exhibitions today:
  • Armia finished even with 1 A, 2 SOG, 2 PIM (high sticking) in Finland's 3-2 win over Canada. He played on the first line with Miikka Salomäki and Markus Granlund; he assisted on Finland's first goal during a 5v3 advantage, was on the ice for their second 5v3 goal and was named their best player in the game; extended TSN highlights can be viewed HERE where he's #10 in white.
  • McCabe finished +1 with 0 P, 0 SOG, 0 PIM in USA's 3-2 OTW over Sweden. He was on the ice for USA's second goal, paired with LD Shayne Gostisbehere; he also was on the ice for Sweden's second goal, paired with LD Patrick Sieloff on the PK; extended TSN highlights can be viewed HERE where he's #19 in navy blue.

tsujimoto74 12-20-2012 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo87 (Post 56702327)
Sounds like Pronman was impressed with him.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=316

I'm kind of starting to worry given that he really hasn't progressed in terms of point totals since his draft season. Granted, there is much more to a prospects game than point totals but ideally you would like to see him progress on the scoresheet.

He has though. He's doing better right now than he was at this point last year. It'll depend on how strong he finishes out the season after WJCs are over.

New Sabres Captain 12-20-2012 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo87 (Post 56702327)
Sounds like Pronman was impressed with him.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=316

I'm kind of starting to worry given that he really hasn't progressed in terms of point totals since his draft season. Granted, there is much more to a prospects game than point totals but ideally you would like to see him progress on the scoresheet.

Keep in mind that he did have the concussion earlier this year.

French Connection 12-21-2012 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qurpiz (Post 56698807)
The trick is to make him want it. His coach in Ässät, Karri Kivi, is looking really, really bad now, the whole team seems to be completely out of his control. Many Ässät fans are actually excited to get Joel out of here, under a proper coaching staff. He goes to the U-20 team, and look at that, he looks dominant.

I seriously hope he goes to Rochester after this season, and gets some good coaching. He has all the tools to be a really, really fine player, he just needs someone to screw his head straight every now and then

post #3k

"Rochester and GOOD COACHING", these do not belong in the same sentence!

stokes84 12-21-2012 08:47 AM

Any word on when USA makes their cuts? I'm anxious to see if McCabe made the team.

Zip15 12-21-2012 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo87 (Post 56702327)
Sounds like Pronman was impressed with him.

http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=316

I'm kind of starting to worry given that he really hasn't progressed in terms of point totals since his draft season. Granted, there is much more to a prospects game than point totals but ideally you would like to see him progress on the scoresheet.

I don't agree with that worry. He'll be in Buffalo to score goals, and I think you'll see several seasons where his goals exceed his assists, a la Vanek. Right now, the reasons his pts/game is down is because his assists are way down (four in 25 games). But his goals/game is the best it's been since he was drafted. And if anyone was really concerned about his ability to create for other players, yesterday hopefully put those fears to bed--he made a very good Canadian team look silly on several occasions.

Buffalo87 12-21-2012 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 56714857)
I don't agree with that worry. He'll be in Buffalo to score goals, and I think you'll see several seasons where his goals exceed his assists, a la Vanek. Right now, the reasons his pts/game is down is because his assists are way down (four in 25 games). But his goals/game is the best it's been since he was drafted. And if anyone was really concerned about his ability to create for other players, yesterday hopefully put those fears to bed--he made a very good Canadian team look silly on several occasions.

I agree in regards to the primary focus is on goals. However, his current goals/game pace would've netted him one more goal than the 18 he scored in 48 games in his draft season. That's not the kind of progression you regularly would like to see in the two years following a players draft year. That is still worrisome.

HockeyH3aven 12-21-2012 11:36 AM

Finally some hockey to cure the lockout blues!


....all of the games are at 4am.

:cry:

1972 12-21-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokes84 (Post 56714783)
Any word on when USA makes their cuts? I'm anxious to see if McCabe made the team.

I am pretty sure that Bob McKenzie said that Trouba, Jones, McCabe, and Skjei were locks on the team. Cuts wont be until after the game saturday.

Zip15 12-21-2012 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo87 (Post 56715863)
I agree in regards to the primary focus is on goals. However, his current goals/game pace would've netted him one more goal than the 18 he scored in 48 games in his draft season. That's not the kind of progression you regularly would like to see in the two years following a players draft year. That is still worrisome.

Not nearly as much as it would be if he were in juniors and he was gaining an age advantage vis-a-vis his competition, which, unfortunately, is often the blanket standard applied to all prospects, regardless of league. Also, keep in mind that his team has become progressively worse since his draft year: 2nd, 5th, and now 10th, so it's quite likely he has a lesser supporting cast to buoy his numbers. Couple that with some of the recent complaints re: coaching from our Finnish friends, and it's not hard to see why his numbers may have been impacted.

I think he's in a great position to come over to North America in a good spot developmentally.

Zip15 12-21-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy Regier (Post 56717307)
I am pretty sure that Bob McKenzie said that Trouba, Jones, McCabe, and Skjei were locks on the team. Cuts wont be until after the game saturday.

Skjei is not a lock at all, and Murphy should be on your lock list, as well.

1972 12-21-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 56719363)
Skjei is not a lock at all, and Murphy should be on your lock list, as well.

My mistake, McKenzie said Jones, McCabe, Murphy and Trouba were locks for the team.

Buffalo87 12-21-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 56719257)
Not nearly as much as it would be if he were in juniors and he was gaining an age advantage vis-a-vis his competition, which, unfortunately, is often the blanket standard applied to all prospects, regardless of league. Also, keep in mind that his team has become progressively worse since his draft year: 2nd, 5th, and now 10th, so it's quite likely he has a lesser supporting cast to buoy his numbers. Couple that with some of the recent complaints re: coaching from our Finnish friends, and it's not hard to see why his numbers may have been impacted.

I think he's in a great position to come over to North America in a good spot developmentally.

I understand the differences in expectations between juniors and pro leagues, but the point remains the same, you'd like to see progression. If a former first round pick in juniors doesn't improve his point total in the two seasons following his draft year, there is huge reason for concern. However, that doesn't mean at the pro level that is not concerning at all. If a guy comes into the NHL and doesn't make statistical progression in his first three seasons, concern starts to creep in there somewhere.

In no way am I even using this to say that Armia isn't developing how I'd hoped as development isn't about statistics. But as someone who has only had limited opportunity to watch him play, I'm just saying it is mildly concerning to see.

It's not a perfect system, but just to compare...based on NHL Equivalencies (0.45 from SM-Liiga to NHL), his current PPG pace in Finland equates to 15 points (~10 goals) over an 82 game season in the NHL if he were to come over next season.

BalticWarrior 12-21-2012 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven (Post 56717111)
Finally some hockey to cure the lockout blues!


....all of the games are at 4am.

:cry:

Hey,us europeans are not complaining when its wjcs in canada or US!

Zip15 12-22-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buffalo87 (Post 56719833)
I understand the differences in expectations between juniors and pro leagues, but the point remains the same, you'd like to see progression. If a former first round pick in juniors doesn't improve his point total in the two seasons following his draft year, there is huge reason for concern. However, that doesn't mean at the pro level that is not concerning at all. If a guy comes into the NHL and doesn't make statistical progression in his first three seasons, concern starts to creep in there somewhere.

In no way am I even using this to say that Armia isn't developing how I'd hoped as development isn't about statistics. But as someone who has only had limited opportunity to watch him play, I'm just saying it is mildly concerning to see.

It's not a perfect system, but just to compare...based on NHL Equivalencies (0.45 from SM-Liiga to NHL), his current PPG pace in Finland equates to 15 points (~10 goals) over an 82 game season in the NHL if he were to come over next season.

From his draft year to his post-draft year, his points/game went up. This year, his goals/game is the highest it's been since he turned pro. I think you're getting yourself too wrapped up in his assist totals this year, which appears to be both an outlier and a mirage, givens that he appears to be Finland's best playmaker this far (along with Barkov).

I'm not saying that you have no right to be worried, but I keep hearing from people--not just you--about how concerning his numbers are this year just because he doesn't have many assists. I don't think it's that big a deal.

DixonWard15 12-23-2012 09:23 AM

Buffalo Sabres ‏@BuffaloSabres
Congratulations to Sabres prospect Jake McCabe, who was just named as Team USA's captain for 2013 World Jrs.

Duddy 12-23-2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixonWard15 (Post 56756623)
Buffalo Sabres ‏@BuffaloSabres
Congratulations to Sabres prospect Jake McCabe, who was just named as Team USA's captain for 2013 World Jrs.

Awesome


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