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-   -   OT: The Baseball Off-Season Thread: Miguel Sano and the Torturer's Stone (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1311177)

Big McLargehuge 12-23-2012 05:32 PM

The Baseball Off-Season Thread: Miguel Sano and the Torturer's Stone
 
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penguins2946* 12-23-2012 05:36 PM

When will the Pirates actually trade for MLB players instead of prospects? Any time they have any good player, they always trade them for prospects that do nothing.

Big McLargehuge 12-23-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguins2946 (Post 56767445)
When will the Pirates actually trade for MLB players instead of prospects? Any time they have any good player, they always trade them for prospects that do nothing.

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http://www.rotoprofessor.com/basebal...WRodriguez.jpg
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sniugneP 12-23-2012 05:46 PM

Any news on Hanrahan trade? What is holding up?

penguins2946* 12-23-2012 05:48 PM

1. A veteran who revived his career here
2. Washed up veteran
3. Washed up veteran

I meant that as why can't the Pirates bring in someone that isn't washed up, or someone that is in the prime of their career, or a young player that is capable of being a big-leaguer. Not someone who is in the end of their career or a prospect that is a long shot.

SomeDude 12-23-2012 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguins2946 (Post 56767773)
1. A veteran who revived his career here
2. Washed up veteran
3. Washed up veteran

I meant that as why can't the Pirates bring in someone that isn't washed up, or someone that is in the prime of their career, or a young player that is capable of being a big-leaguer. Not someone who is in the end of their career or a prospect that is a long shot.

And what are they going to trade for players like that? The only way for a team like the Pirates to succeed is to develop their own stars.

clefty 12-23-2012 05:55 PM

Wait, you're telling me we can't get Justin Upton for Garrett Jones and Jose Tabata?

Big McLargehuge 12-23-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clefty (Post 56767979)
Wait, you're telling me we can't get Justin Upton for Garrett Jones and Jose Tabata?

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Listen folks, the only way the Pirates are going to acquire one of the names that people clamor for is to blow up the farm system, which would be the dumbest ****ing thing this organization could possibly do.

bathroomSTAAL 12-23-2012 06:08 PM

Yeah the people on this board would bust a nut if we traded a probable future all-star for one year of a #2-3 starter like the Royals did.

Big McLargehuge 12-23-2012 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sniugneP (Post 56767733)
Any news on Hanrahan trade? What is holding up?

The calender.

It won't be made official until Hanrahan passes a physical, which wasn't too likely to happen on a weekend or on Christmas. Assuming he passes I don't expect it to be made official until the 26th or 27th.

PensFan68 12-23-2012 06:11 PM

I know there were quite a few people that expected a big return from Joel, but it just wasn't going to happen. I don't think any of the three mentioned right now are going to be much, but we weren't getting a 1-1 all star return.

I do like that Melancon was named today as another player. While he has some HR issues, I think he'll be great at the back end of the pen. Him for Joel straight up would be bad, but getting a replacement for Joel, plus a guy that should turn into a good reliever (think pimental will be better relieve than starter), and a bench guy is decent. Although, we are LOADED with Sands type players.

I however would've liked some return with more potential. I know it wouldn't be an A level prospect, but maybe a boom/bust kinda guy.

The only player on this team we could trade for a ransom would be Cutch, and that aint happening (I hope).

penguins2946* 12-23-2012 06:17 PM

You know, we wouldn't really need another big-hitter if El Torro would strike out less. That's at least my opinion on that. Our pitching is decent, and so is our fielding, but when you have a player who consistently strikes out, that hurts the team.

OnMyOwn 12-23-2012 06:58 PM

Wandy is not washed up and gaby had one bad year...you're approaching jaded level here.

Also, why do people think we were going to get an everyday player for hammer? He had minimal trade value, and the return isn't half bad considering we were never going to pay him and teams knew it.

DJ Spinoza 12-23-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge (Post 56768275)
The calender.

It won't be made official until Hanrahan passes a physical, which wasn't too likely to happen on a weekend or on Christmas. Assuming he passes I don't expect it to be made official until the 26th or 27th.

There's also some rumblings that the final two players in the deal aren't settled, which is a bit strange. I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm skeptical that this will be finalized, but it's still possible. Apparently Melancon said he wasn't told anything about being traded to the Pirates (could be irrelevant).

I'm curious what could be happening. It makes little sense to get Sands with the OF situation, and even if they trade Jones in another deal, it doesn't open up an outfield spot. I'd definitely agree with the consensus from the other thread that swapping out Jones is a big step backwards at this point.

Trying to separate things out a bit... OF should be McCutchen, Marte, and whoever can win a third spot/platoon. If Sands is here to push Snyder and Tabata, that's fine, but next year I think Marte needs to have the spot at the start of spring training.

1B could be a platoon, with the new AAAA player waiting in actual AAA.

Melancon adds some depth to the bullpen, so I guess that just leaves us with the question of the remaining two pieces. Have to reserve judgment until that happens, but it's also quite possible than Melancon could outperform Hanrahan in 2013 1v1.

Illinest 12-23-2012 08:35 PM

From what I've been able to tell the original source of the Melancon rumor is from Red Sox fan speculation. Don't take him for granted.

I say the Sox want a closer and might want a lefty power threat if Napoli fails physical. They might want an extra one anyways. The Pirates want to shed salary so Hanrahan and Jones are both likely inclusions. Not saying I like that.

I think there's a decent chance that the Sox pushed for Jones and the Pirates were given a list of guys to look at. Could include Melancon. Maybe not.

DJ Spinoza 12-23-2012 09:39 PM

That's interesting about the Melancon rumor--I didn't know that. The thought had crossed my mind that the missing players could be Jones and Iglesias. I don't think I'd like that, but I guess we'll have to see.

vecens24 12-23-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illinest (Post 56771091)
From what I've been able to tell the original source of the Melancon rumor is from Red Sox fan speculation. Don't take him for granted.

I say the Sox want a closer and might want a lefty power threat if Napoli fails physical. They might want an extra one anyways. The Pirates want to shed salary so Hanrahan and Jones are both likely inclusions. Not saying I like that.

I think there's a decent chance that the Sox pushed for Jones and the Pirates were given a list of guys to look at. Could include Melancon. Maybe not.

The original source of the rumor was Gordon Edes of ESPN Boston I believe.

Flat Stanley 12-25-2012 01:08 PM

I don't expect the Pirates to compete next season, but I think we have an improved team from last year.

Jaded-Fan 12-26-2012 05:02 AM

One take on the offseason so far. Whether you agree with it or not, you might find it to be an interesting read:

http://isportsweb.com/2012/12/25/pit...eason-to-date/

DJ Spinoza 12-26-2012 01:00 PM

Trade's official:

Pirates get Jerry Sands, Stormy Pimentel, Mark Melancon, and Ivan de Jesus

Red Sox get Joel Hanrahan and Brock Holt

Brock Holt makes it a bit interesting, but he's basically a slap hitter with bad defense. De Jesus is a former top prospect (surprise!), and looks to have been very successful until he broke his leg a few years ago. It looks like he can take a walk, so he's probably a better utility infielder than Holt. Melancon could really be a key in this deal--he's capable of giving an equivalent performance to Hanrahan, which effectively makes the deal a wash plus a gamble on Sands/Pimental.

Edit: after reading up a bit, De Jesus looks pretty comparable to Holt--defense isn't good enough to play SS, and hitting (especially for power) isn't really good enough to be a regular anywhere else (also, 2B and 3B are pretty blocked). Counting that aspect of the deal as a wash, it looks like 3-for-1, and so a lot of the MLB value rides on Melancon. Apparently he had problems with Valentine, and the consensus amongst the talking heads is that he'll return to 2011 form in 2013. I'm fine with that, but fairly mediocre over all. Pimentel looks like a depth move, and Sands just adds to the logjam of corner OF possibles. Rosenthal is saying that you can look at this as a 5 or 6 for 2 deal, factoring in Liriano's salary and possible another bargain FA-type, but that's not really a fair way to evaluate a trade. I'd certainly opt to spread the money that way, rather than give it to a closer when there are multiple other options, but this is definitely not a cashing-in trade.

I don't really love the deal, and would put myself firmly in the "should have traded him a two years ago but obviously couldn't" camp, but I'm fine with this.

Harv 12-26-2012 03:30 PM

Farewell Brock Holt.

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GarbageGoal 12-26-2012 03:49 PM

Another bad trade. I hate this team.

ColePens 12-26-2012 04:17 PM

I don't quite understand the risk reward here. I'm not as up with talent on baseball as you guys, but this just screams risk/reward trade. I understand we could have just lost Hammer for nothing, but he'd at least help us this year have a great 8th/9th inning. These guys we got aren't really going to help us.

We make some very strange deals.

OnMyOwn 12-26-2012 04:18 PM

God people have no sense of value.

What would you have traded hammer for? What do you honestly think a team would have given us for a fat, shaky, 7mm closer that every team knew we weren't going to pay?

This deal is fine, melancon is a good mlb pitcher and we have more bench options now.

Gooch 12-26-2012 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnMyOwn (Post 56817245)
God people have no sense of value.

What would you have traded hammer for? What do you honestly think a team would have given us for a fat, shaky, 7mm closer that every team knew we weren't going to pay?

This deal is fine, melancon is a good mlb pitcher and we have more bench options now.

The point some of us are making is that the return is so pitiful that we're better off with just having Hanrahan and letting him go next year. The team is already clogged with Jerry Sands types, there is really nothing of significant use gained by this trade except we lose our all-star closer for a bunch of spare parts.

When this was initially discussed it was Iglesias who was supposed to be the focal point of this trade, the rug was pulled out from under us and instead of getting a good solid prospect to build around in the future that wouldve fit the team very well we then seemed to have just made a trade for the sake of getting rid of Hanrahan.


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