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-   -   Is Jay McClement the "real deal", and... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1311635)

ForSpareParts* 12-25-2012 07:15 AM

Is Jay McClement the "real deal", and...
 
...who would be his ideal wingers on the 3rd line and on the Penalty Kill? If we have hockey this year is Burke's work done? Does he need to acquire more help on the Penalty Kill?

Leafs For Life* 12-25-2012 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal Gill As A Leaf (Post 56794279)
...who would be his ideal wingers on the 3rd line and on the Penalty Kill? If we have hockey this year is Burke's work done? Does he need to acquire more help on the Penalty Kill?

Him and Kulemin are probable 3rd liners, while Frattin will probably slide onto the extra wing. I see McClement-Kulemin being the 1st PK pairing.

Inconceivable 12-25-2012 08:31 AM

If the season is cancelled I'd like him as 4c with brown and komarov on his wings. I know that right now a lot of people expect mcclement to be 3c and steckel 4c, but the way I see it mcclement makes steckel redundant. From what I saw last year, steckel usually started his shifts in The defensive zone. Since mcclement is our new defensive specialist, when would we ever put steckel on the ice?

Also I'd like to see brown with mcclement on the pk. I just feel like the mix of iq/positioning and energy/speed would be a great combo for shutting down the opponents.

Heista18* 12-25-2012 08:57 AM

Check the guys stats. He's not a prolific third line scorer, more like a 4th line pk guy. I don't see how that's going to work.

ULF_55 12-25-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hal Gill As A Leaf (Post 56794279)
...who would be his ideal wingers on the 3rd line and on the Penalty Kill? If we have hockey this year is Burke's work done? Does he need to acquire more help on the Penalty Kill?

Looking at 2011-2012 SH/TOI

Who remains on the team these are the top PK's in order of ice time:

David Steckel
Tim Connolly
Matthew Lombardi
Nikolai Kulemin
Tyler Bozak


Leafs have 2 players who have scored 30 or more goals in a single season: Kessel, Kulemin

p.l.f. 12-25-2012 09:52 AM

i would do:
1st line: lupul bozak kessel
2nd line: jvr grabovsky kulemin
3rd line: mccarthur connolly ????
4th line: steckel mcclement brown

but use the 4th line more when protecting a lead

ForSpareParts* 12-25-2012 10:52 AM

I'm sorry I didn't clarify "real deal". Is McClement solid enough on the PK and as a 3rd / 4th liner that Burke wouldn't have to look elsewhere to fill that gap. That he would have no problems moving Steckel, keeping Brown, and moving Bozak. I guess I feel that his acquisition means moving other players now. But is McClement a reputable penalty killer? Can we stop shopping for a guy like him now?

darrylsittler27 12-25-2012 11:09 AM

Real deal for what?
 
He was brought in for pk help,he can't hurt but Burke's work is far from done.With Gardiner and Reilly the only important holes that he has filled are defense.Center and question marks in goal still remain, as they have through out his entire tenure here.Burke has changed almost every player and gotten the same result,these major holes can be ignored no more.He must address the most critical positions or be fired.5 years without a number one center and solid goaltending is failure.

Mess 12-25-2012 11:41 AM

Leafs 4th line checking centre and PKer.

Komarov --- McClement -- Brown

Liminality 12-25-2012 11:46 AM

"After recording between 20 and 36 points in each of his first six NHL seasons, McClement took a step back offensively in his first and only full campaign with the Colorado Avalanche, scoring 10 goals and 17 points in 80 games. He finished 13th in total even-strength ice time, while leaned on heavily in shorthanded situations. The Kingston, Ontario native recorded just 95 shots on goal, ending up with a career-high 10.5 shooting percentage. McClement isn’t the most physical of bottom-six forwards, as evidenced by his 72 hits last season and he doesn’t fully take advantage of his impressive frame. The former second-round pick efficiently defends through sound positioning and keen instincts. He needs to rely on that due to a lack of a top gear while his start up and stride are sluggish. The 29-year-old pivot has a high hockey IQ with superb anticipation and play selection before an attacker even begins to execute. Toronto finished fourth in the NHL with a 51.6 faceoff percentage last season and McClement will provide them with yet another solid asset in that regard. Great arm strength and low center of gravity makes him a force when doing battle at the face-off dot. The Maple Leafs signed him to a two-year, $3 million deal over the summer. He will help Toronto bounce back after posting an appalling 77.3 penalty-killing percentage last season and should be penciled in as the team’s third-line centre."

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/roster/jay-mcclement/

He'll probably be counted on to play the toughest minutes on the team when the NHL comes back. I could see him being our 3rd line centre for a couple years since he's only 29. I see him as a really good 4th line centre on a contending team or an offensively challenged shut down centre on the 3rd line.

Stephen 12-25-2012 11:53 AM

Kind of funny that a third/fourth line center can be referred to as "the real deal".

zeke 12-25-2012 12:02 PM

not convinced he's a legit quality 3rd line centre on a good team. at best I can see him being an average 3rd line c, but maybe not even that.

I'd much rather see him as the 4th line C.

namttebih 12-25-2012 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heista18 (Post 56794817)
Check the guys stats. He's not a prolific third line scorer, more like a 4th line pk guy. I don't see how that's going to work.

Dude you keep saying that but I have three things to say to you Stastny, Duchene and O'Reilly. In 08/09 and 09/10 he scored 12 and 11 goals respectively. Kelly scored 14 for the Bruins as a third line center two years ago and Stoll only scored 6 last year for LA. He signed with T.O at a reduced salary so he would get third line minutes. He is going to have increased responsibilities and minutes here. He will be our 3rd line C.

Mess 12-25-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 56796513)
Kind of funny that a third/fourth line center can be referred to as "the real deal".

Peter Zezel was the real deal and combined with Osborne and Berg in the 1990's gave the Leafs a checking 3rd line that complimented a competitive team well. They did what was required/asked of them and played their parts well, and made an impact on the results of the team.

If McClement can improve what has been an embarrassing near bottom of the league PK year after year than his addition will have value in assisting this team improve..

While "real deal" may be an exaggeration on definition for his expected contributions, he might be a useful utility player, similarly that is found on most competitive teams. Any improvement as a replacement on Steckel alone will validate the merits of his addition.

Heista18* 12-25-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namttebih (Post 56796657)
Dude you keep saying that but I have three things to say to you Stastny, Duchene and O'Reilly. In 08/09 and 09/10 he scored 12 and 11 goals respectively. Kelly scored 14 for the Bruins as a third line center two years ago and Stoll only scored 6 last year for LA. He signed with T.O at a reduced salary so he would get third line minutes. He is going to have increased responsibilities and minutes here. He will be our 3rd line C.

That's fine and all, but nobody is gonna be a lock on this team under any circumstance. I don't even know this guy well, all I can go by are his stats and hearsay. I don't like the look of the team with him as a 3c, because I'm more of a roll 3 scoring lines kind of guy. He's not the ideal centre at that spot.

namttebih 12-25-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heista18 (Post 56797221)
That's fine and all, but nobody is gonna be a lock on this team under any circumstance. I don't even know this guy well, all I can go by are his stats and hearsay. I don't like the look of the team with him as a 3c, because I'm more of a roll 3 scoring lines kind of guy. He's not the ideal centre at that spot.

Ok then, let's go with that. Who would be your ideal third line C? With a 60 odd million payroll it's very difficult to have a 25g/50p third line C. How many teams have a legit threat in that position? Philly this year? Maybe, probably not. If we give him a couple of decent wingers and he can pot 15g and 30p and play exceptionally well at D would that not suffice? If we stick Kadri or Bozak in that spot, with thrid line minutes will they get much more than 15 and 30. Not likely.

2008–09 St. Louis Blues 82 12 14 26

If we gave him a couple of good wingers he might slightly improve on these numbers. What do you want from your third line C?

Heista18* 12-25-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by namttebih (Post 56797407)
Ok then, let's go with that. Who would be your ideal third line C? With a 60 odd million payroll it's very difficult to have a 25g/50p third line C. How many teams have a legit threat in that position? Philly this year? Maybe, probably not. If we give him a couple of decent wingers and he can pot 15g and 30p and play exceptionally well at D would that not suffice? If we stick Kadri or Bozak in that spot, with thrid line minutes will they get much more than 15 and 30. Not likely.

2008–09 St. Louis Blues 82 12 14 26

If we gave him a couple of good wingers he might slightly improve on these numbers. What do you want from your third line C?

I see what you're saying but he's all defence in my eyes. I'd go with bozak there.

namttebih 12-25-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heista18 (Post 56797475)
I see what you're saying but he's all defence in my eyes. I'd go with bozak there.

Ok. The problem here is that you said that you wanted to roll with three scoring lines. Bozak only got 29 assists last year playing with one of the elite snipers in the league. How many helpers will he have feeding Fratts and Kulemin instead of Kessel and Lupes?

I think that Bozak is equal to McClement offensively but weeker defensively (weeker, not week). The only reason that he has a spot on the team going forward is his chemistry with the top line.

Jerkini 12-25-2012 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leaffan16 (Post 56794631)
Him and Kulemin are probable 3rd liners, while Frattin will probably slide onto the extra wing. I see McClement-Kulemin being the 1st PK pairing.

With the wingers on this team, i've no doubt Kulemin will earn his second line spot back.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER 12-25-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mess (Post 56796391)
Leafs 4th line checking centre and PKer.

Komarov --- McClement -- Brown

So where does this leave David Steckel if this turns out to happen?

rdawg1234 12-25-2012 01:55 PM

Mcclement is great for the 3rd line.

You guys need to stop looking at points for him, it's his defensive game and PK ability.

Put Frattin, Kulemin and maybe Kadri on the line sometimes and that line will be fantastic.

Frattin-Mcclement-Kule is a big, two-way line that can score.

Lupul-Bozak(ugh)-Kessel

JVR-Grabo-MacA/Kadri

Frattin-Mcclement-Kulemin

Komarov-Steckel-Brown.

I actually love our bottom 6, pretty big, Komarov and Brown are pests, steckel and mcclement can win faceoffs, mcclement great on the PK, Kulemin and Frattin can score.

Top 6 obviously needs a #1 Centre, but right now it looks solid overall. I dont know why people think we are a bad team, this team has a solid mix of skill and defense, especially when you have a defensive system finally.

Mess 12-25-2012 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 56797959)
So where does this leave David Steckel if this turns out to happen?

Steckel is a UFA at seasons end and other than his faceoff proficiency, he doesn't contribute much beyond that.

While winning key defensive faceoffs is unquestionably a team asset and benefit, I'm not sure its enough alone to keep him on the Leafs beyond this season. McClement's addition makes his role redundant for the most part.

Antropovsky 12-25-2012 02:01 PM

He will be our 3rd line C, burkes made that clear. Burke is a two skilled line, one defensive line, one tough line kind of guy. Mcclement has been a fan favorite in both St.Louis and Colorado. I remember reading blues fans talking about the possibility of him being a selke candidate. I recall reading colorado fans listing him as one if their favorite players.In an interview following him signing with the leafs, he talked about not coming in to be a scorer, but to be more concerned with being a pker and defensively reliable guy, because its important to fill those roles on teams. He's gonna be Burke's pahlsson.

LEAFS FAN 4 EVER 12-25-2012 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mess (Post 56798083)
Steckel is a UFA at seasons end and other than his faceoff proficiency, he doesn't contribute much beyond that.

While winning key defensive faceoffs is unquestionably a team asset and benefit, I'm not sure its enough alone to keep him on the Leafs beyond this season. McClement's addition makes his role redundant for the most part.

I forgot to say if they actually play the 2012-2013 season? However I do agree that chances are once Steckel becomes a UFA he won't be re-signed.

Mess 12-25-2012 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER (Post 56798215)
I forgot to say if they actually play the 2012-2013 season? However I do agree that chances are once Steckel becomes a UFA he won't be re-signed.

If there is a season this year then Steckel will likely be on the team, but relegated to the pressbox as the 13th forward on a fairly regular basis as an extra player and injury replacement. IMO

McClement is the new toy Carlyle has at his disposal and he will use him in many roles within the bottom 6 and on the PK, as most of what he brings makes Steckel's former responsibilities replaced and improved upon.

Over time I see Bozak moved down the roster (if he remains in Toronto) to the 3rd line pushing McClement officially into the 4th hole on the roster at center, with ideally a #1 C eventually obtained.


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