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-   -   Proposal: Nashville-Philadelphia (offseason) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1311705)

Clown Baby* 12-25-2012 01:18 PM

Nashville-Philadelphia (offseason)
 
To Nashville:
Sean Couturier, Andrej Meszaros, and 2014 first round pick

To Philadelphia:
Shea Weber

Hows the value (all things considered) ???

Quote:

2005/08/03 St. Louis Blues traded Chris Pronger to the Edmonton Oilers for Eric Brewer, Jeff Woywitka and Doug Lynch.

2006/07/03 Edmonton Oilers traded Chris Pronger to the Anaheim Ducks for Joffrey Lupul, Ladislav Smid, a 1st round selection in 2007, a conditional 1st round selection and a 2nd round selection in 2008.

2008/02/26 Buffalo Sabres traded Brian Campbell and a 7th round selection in 2008 to the San Jose Sharks for Steve Bernier and a 1st round selection in 2008.

2008/07/04 Tampa Bay Lightning traded Dan Boyle and Brad Lukowich to the San Jose Sharks for Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, a 1st round selection in 2009 and a 4th round selection in 2010.

2009/06/26 Anaheim Ducks traded Chris Pronger and Ryan Dingle to the Philadelphia Flyers for Joffrey Lupul, Luca Sbisa, a 1st round selection in 2009, a 1st round selection in 2010 and a conditional round selection in 2010 or 2011.

2010/01/31 Toronto Maple Leafs traded Ian White, Matt Stajan, Nicklas Hagman and Jamal Mayers to the Calgary Flames for Dion Phaneuf, Keith Aulie and Fredrik Sjostrom.

2011/02/18 Toronto Maple Leafs traded Tomas Kaberle to the Boston Bruins for Joe Colborne, a first-round draft pick in 2011 and a conditional draft pick in 2012.

2011/06/24 San Jose Sharks traded Devin Setoguchi, Charlie Coyle and a 1st round selection in 2011 to the Minnesota Wild for Brent Burns and a 2nd round selection in 2012.

Skobel24 12-25-2012 01:20 PM

I would imagine Nashville would demand Couturier.

Edit: Im confused now. The original deal was Voracek and Meszaros.

Predatorbill 12-25-2012 01:21 PM

Not even close. How do you give us the $30 million back?

Schalkenullvier* 12-25-2012 01:23 PM

Not One Elite or potentially Elite Part. I dont think nashville ever trades him unless he demands it and plays like ****, but if they did, think couturier to start.

Nuckles 12-25-2012 01:25 PM

Nashville is going to want either Couturier or B. Schenn, and a few other good assets.

My guess would be Couturier/B. Schenn + top 4 d-man + 1st round pick + something else

7even 12-25-2012 01:28 PM

Original wasn't fantastic, now it just makes me sad.

DuckEatinShark 12-25-2012 01:35 PM

1. Nashville matched the offer sheet instead of taking 4 1st rounders. Your package isn't as good as the 4 1st IMO.

2. Suter is gone. Weber is Nashville's only top-pairing defenseman left. They can't afford to deal him away without getting a #1 defenseman back.

3. The value of Weber is much higher than any of the defensemen listed because he is not a pending FA nor is he demanding a trade. None of the defensemen listed are as good as Weber when they were traded.

Avs44 12-25-2012 01:42 PM

This is a rather pathetic offer...I imagine if Weber was put OTB Nashville could get far better than this. I think Nashville would demand at least one of Schenn/Couturier++

InjuredChoker 12-25-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark (Post 56797765)
1. Nashville matched the offer sheet instead of taking 4 1st rounders. Your package isn't as good as the 4 1st IMO.

2. Suter is gone. Weber is Nashville's only top-pairing defenseman left. They can't afford to deal him away without getting a #1 defenseman back.

3. The value of Weber is much higher than any of the defensemen listed because he is not a pending FA nor is he demanding a trade. None of the defensemen listed are as good as Weber when they were traded.

Pretty much this.

Many many teams would be willing to give up so much more.

FanHabtic 12-25-2012 01:53 PM

This ship has sailed. Weber will retire a Pred. There is no way that the Preds entertain any trade with the Flyers. Ever.

Clown Baby* 12-25-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skobel24 (Post 56797583)
I would imagine Nashville would demand Couturier.

Edit: Im confused now. The original deal was Voracek and Meszaros.

Jakub Voracek is just coming back from a lower body injury, and Andrej Meszaros is recovering from an achilles injury. Figured Grossmann was a good veteran option to have on the back-end to support Blum, Eckholm, Ellis, etc. while Read plays the role of Steve Sullivan.

Top 6 Spaling 12-25-2012 01:59 PM

Hahahaha no. Not close. Weber is arguably the best defenseman in the game, and we just paid the biggest year of his contract. Other teams would offer much bigger packages.

tsujimoto74 12-25-2012 02:17 PM

So an elite defenseman for spare parts? After your team offer sheeted said defender and Nashville matched?

I'm gonna go with no.

ETA: Use of Brian Campbell trade is pretty misleading. That was what the Sharks paid for 33 games of him.

Freudian 12-25-2012 02:20 PM

I don't expect Preds to trade with Flyers in the future.

dookie88 12-25-2012 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark (Post 56797765)
. None of the defensemen listed are as good as Weber when they were traded.

Chris Pronger sure as hell was better than Weber is now, or ever was.

I don't think the Flyers can fit Weber under the cap if it will be reduced. We have to resign Giroux in the near future. I also believe we could use someone like Suter more, since we really need puckmoving.

That being said, if the cap wouldn't be an issue, I'd trade one of Couturier or B.Schenn + in a heartbeat for Weber.

mpp9 12-25-2012 02:37 PM

Nashville is paying him a hefty sum up front. No way do they trade him immediately after that. Especially not for Couturier, an overpaid 4/5 D-man and a 1st.

J. Staal brought back a better package IMO, and he certainly isn't worth what a franchise D-man will bring.

Weber is signed longterm. You have to give Nashville a reason to move him. If I were Poile, I'd want more.

Top 6 Spaling 12-25-2012 02:40 PM

My solution to the cap working (assuming we have a shortened season) is this: send Kimmo back. Frees up 6.3 mil for you, we get a stopgap top pairing D. Since he's a UFA, obviously that wouldnt work if there's no season this year. But hypothetically saying there is, it would take AT LEAST Schenn+Schenn+Kimmo+something. Overpayment? Maybe. But that's what it would take.

Clown Baby* 12-25-2012 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark (Post 56797765)
1. Nashville matched the offer sheet instead of taking 4 1st rounders. Your package isn't as good as the 4 1st IMO.

2. Suter is gone. Weber is Nashville's only top-pairing defenseman left. They can't afford to deal him away without getting a #1 defenseman back.

3. The value of Weber is much higher than any of the defensemen listed because he is not a pending FA nor is he demanding a trade. None of the defensemen listed are as good as Weber when they were traded.

1. I guess it all depends on how high the Flyers finish over the course of the next four years. With just picks going back to Nashville, Poille probably had the same concern. Four low first round picks are anything but a sure bet.

2. When's the last time a no. 1 center, winger, or defenseman was traded when the return featured a comparable player at the same position?

3. True. He is not a pending FA, and he is currently not demanding a trade. However, Shea is not nearly the player that Chris Pronger was at the same time.

Note: I get there's no incentive for Nashville to trade Shea unless he requests it, or Poille sees that his club needs to retool. It's just something to have fun with.

worstfaceoffmanever 12-25-2012 02:42 PM

A small market team has a superstar defenseman, so clearly they're just dying to trade him, right?

Nashville is not trading Weber for the foreseeable future.

laundryman 12-25-2012 02:47 PM

I'd do that as a Flyers fan but frankly I'd expect more if I were Nashville. Losing Couturier really sucks, but if anything it clears the abundance of centers for the Flyers. with Laughton and Cosuins in the system they could eventually bump Schenn up to play on Giroux's wing. I'd imagine the lineups would look something like

Hartenll - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schenn - Briere
Fedotenko - Talbot - Read
Wellwood - Sestito - Rinaldo

Forwards get weaker obviously, but still a good lineup

As for the defense

Coburn - Weber
Timonen - Schenn
Grossmann - Gus/Bourdon/Manning

That is a great defense, especially if Schenn comes into his own (which seems likely if Weber is there since he doesn't have to be the #1 guy).

Clown Baby* 12-25-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever (Post 56798597)
A small market team has a superstar defenseman, so clearly they're just dying to trade him, right?

Nashville is not trading Weber for the foreseeable future.

Nope. I see a team with two all-stars, little balance, and even less depth. A half dozen teams have tried to win with that formula since the lockout ended and each time it ends the same - a half decade of mediocrity and then the stars pack it in.

SpeedDemon 12-25-2012 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clown Baby (Post 56797543)
To Nashville:
Sean Couturier, Andrej Meszaros, and 2014 first round pick

To Philadelphia:
Shea Weber

Hell No.

First off- Coututier's Presence means the Preds would have to move Legwand, Wilson or Smith none of which is likely to happen.

Second- With Suter gone there's no way the Preds give up Weber unless the're being overcompensated (I'm talking 2 young, proven, top 4 defensive defenceman with some offensive upside.
Example- Ryan McDonaugh and Marc Staal If a deal was done with the Rangers. and that's just a minimum. )

Vasilevskiy 12-25-2012 04:14 PM

lol, Preds isn't trading with Flyers.

In the remote case it happened think about both schenn's + top-6 forward/top-4 defender + pick/prospect
Or in other words, a super overpayment

Top 6 Spaling 12-25-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clown Baby (Post 56798955)
Nope. I see a team with two all-stars, little balance, and even less depth. A half dozen teams have tried to win with that formula since the lockout ended and each time it ends the same - a half decade of mediocrity and then the stars pack it in.

:help:

Just because the Preds depth players don't get the publicity of big markets doesn't mean we don't have depth. You're also a bit spoiled in Philadelphia.

Erat-Fisher-SK
Hornqvist-Legwand-Wilson
Bourque-Smith-Halischuk
Spaling-Gaustad-Yip

Weber-Josi
Klein-Hannan/Ellis/Blum
Ellis/Gill/Blum

We are fine with that depth and that balance. FYI, the Preds were 8th in goals for last year. We had the #1 Power Play in the league, so our offense seems to be working all right. Sure, losing Suter hurt our D depth, but trading Weber and getting only Mezaros back on D won't fix that.

The Preds have all kinds of issues. We need a true top line scoring threat, our defense is a bit young, and we lack a true #2 now (though Josi is close), but depth and balance are NOT two of our issues, not to mention the proposed deal would fix neither of them, even if it was. Losing our only top pairind D creates a much bigger hole than you're filling.

zeus3007* 12-25-2012 06:52 PM

Weber isn't for trade. It would likely take Giroux being on the table to get more than a "no thanks, don't ask again".


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