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-   -   MLS vs. NHL Going Forward? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1312039)

WingsFan95 12-26-2012 05:01 PM

MLS vs. NHL Going Forward?
 
The last thread is over a year old.


How does this lockout affect the naysayers who maintained MLS will always remain a second rate league?

I think there's no question the NHL will be pushed to 5th place in the United States.

stan the caddy 12-26-2012 05:06 PM

Based on what?

WingsFan95 12-26-2012 05:10 PM

Articles such as this:
Overtakes 3rd in 2011

and

Attendance increases in 2012


It remains to be seen how the NHL comes back but....common sense dictates the NHL is not improving its popularity by any stretch.

AdmiralsFan24 12-26-2012 05:12 PM

That first article is hilarious. I did the math earlier but MLS fills their stadiums to like a 72% capacity compared to 90% or thereabouts for the NBA and NHL. There are also more games and tickets are much more expensive in the NBA and NHL.

Grand Volcan 12-26-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 (Post 56819245)
That first article is hilarious. I did the math earlier but MLS fills their stadiums to like a 72% capacity compared to 90% or thereabouts for the NBA and NHL. There are also more games and tickets are much more expensive in the NBA and NHL.

The difference in TV ratings is wider. Last time I checked MLS games on national TV get about 100k while the NHL hovers around 1mil.

ThisYearsModel 12-26-2012 05:21 PM

MLS will overtake the NHL on TV eventually. Too many kids playing soccer in the US. Add in the second division soccer teams such as the NASL, and the morons who run the NHL content to urinate on all aspects of the business every 6 or 8 years, and soccer's takeover is certain. It is just a matter of time.

RoryDelap 12-26-2012 05:21 PM

In the States it's inevitable.

VinnyC 12-26-2012 05:23 PM

In the soccer world the MLS is still very much a second/third rate league. It won't sniff the other four (NHL being the closest) so long as every soccer fan would rather watch European matchups.

It will need a few decades to build a fanbase that dedicate themselves primarily to their local franchises instead of those abroad. At this point, fans are very price sensitive and if you try to push the prices too much then they'll just go back to watching more EPL or Serie A at home. And so long as the MLS can't draw revenues like the NHL (at the least) they aren't going to be a league that people actually care about.

IU Hawks fan 12-26-2012 05:26 PM

It's never going to get close, IMO. Americans like to watch the best of the best. MLS doesn't have that and never will.

Add the fact it could be 50 years before MLS ticket prices reach NHL range, and how long it could be before they sniff a $200 million dollar TV deal, plus add in Canada's TV deal...

Samzilla 12-26-2012 05:29 PM

For a league that only exists because of the US being awarded the World Cup in 94, and is less than two decades old, it's done amazingly well for itself. It survived some of the pitfalls that brought down the old NASL. It still has a ways to go before it surpasses the NHL, but this will be fun to revisit a decade from now and see where the two leagues stand.

NJDevs26 12-26-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel (Post 56819391)
MLS will overtake the NHL on TV eventually. Too many kids playing soccer in the US. Add in the second division soccer teams such as the NASL, and the morons who run the NHL content to urinate on all aspects of the business every 6 or 8 years, and soccer's takeover is certain. It is just a matter of time.

People have been saying that soccer's going to boom for 30 years, it just doesn't happen. It's one thing to play and another to watch. And you can want to grow up making big money in the USA playing football, basketball, baseball or you can grow up making big money by moving to England or Spain playing soccer. Most are going to want to get big money at home.

Plus you have the 'best' leagues on TV now if you want, and the EPL gets massive coverage in the US. The EPL hurts interest in MLS the way the KHL never could hurt the NHL interest.

Melrose Munch 12-26-2012 05:55 PM

The prevailing notion here is that the NHL would rather be number 4 in the US. The MLS teams are half owned by the league office. Full private ownership, etc Can remedy that. TV deal. MLS can't get 200m/year in 2020? please. MMA went from nothing to 1.5 billion revenues in 2010... if you think the current situation won't change then you think nothing changes and I'm sorry you you'll be left holding the bag 10 years from now when the NHL's obituary comes up in business schools everywhere.

Wiems35* 12-26-2012 06:21 PM

As easy as soccer is to pick up when you're little, it seems just as easy to drop when you get older. I've searched for a study that shows how long the average soccer player plays in an organized league vs other sports, but IMO, people who have to pay more just to play their sport, tend to care about staying with it more.

sandysan 12-26-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel (Post 56819391)
MLS will overtake the NHL on TV eventually. Too many kids playing soccer in the US. Add in the second division soccer teams such as the NASL, and the morons who run the NHL content to urinate on all aspects of the business every 6 or 8 years, and soccer's takeover is certain. It is just a matter of time.

I'm no spring chicken but people have been making this argument for my entire life. Kids soccer is popular predominantly because it is cheap and does not need fantastically specialized skills to play ( which is very different from playing at the highest level). That's about it.

I'm not saying that the NHL is well run, but it probably has more to fear from the WNBA than it does from mls.

Kane One 12-26-2012 06:29 PM

The MLS is never going to overtake the NHL.

Legionnaire11 12-26-2012 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiems35 (Post 56820391)
As easy as soccer is to pick up when you're little, it seems just as easy to drop when you get older. I've searched for a study that shows how long the average soccer player plays in an organized league vs other sports, but IMO, people who have to pay more just to play their sport, tend to care about staying with it more.

I was going to say something like this. Youth soccer doesn't seem to translate to the popularity of the game. Youth soccer has been huge for 30 years now, it's an easy sport to get into and understand for young kids. But it just doesn't stick with them as they grow up. I bet that youth football has grown faster than any other youth sport, there are way more pee-wee leagues than ever before.

I also think that youth hockey is growing faster than soccer in certain areas, specifically the non-traditional markets. Here in Nashville hockey is growing by leaps and bounds, soccer is growing too but as a growth % from 1997-present, hockey is growing way faster here.

Confucius 12-26-2012 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 56820577)
The MLS is never going to overtake the NHL.

Ticket prices for Toronto FC already pricier than U S NHL average. The prices range from 41 to 127 for premium games and 27 to 97 for regular games the stadium holds 25,000 and consistently has had over 20 thousand per game for the past 6 years. Seattle averages 34,000 per game. There are 17 home regular season games, plus the extras. Won't be long until they pass the NHL.

My guess within 10 years many cities will be crying, grow the game we want MLS too.:laugh:

Pepe Silvia 12-26-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stix and Stones (Post 56820763)
Ticket prices for Toronto FC already pricier than U S NHL average. The prices range from 41 to 127 for premium games and 27 to 97 for regular games the stadium holds 25,000 and consistently has had over 20 thousand per game for the past 6 years. Seattle averages 34,000 per game. There are 17 home regular season games, plus the extras. Won't be long until they pass the NHL.

My guess within 10 years many cities will be crying, grow the game we want MLS too.:laugh:

I guess it depends on where you live. Hardly anyone cares about the MLS in Chicago

Confucius 12-26-2012 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nds90 (Post 56820997)
I guess it depends on where you live. Hardly anyone cares about the MLS in Chicago

Yeah some cities are late to the party however Chicago will do well someday at least they're in already. Wait 10 years...

thom 12-26-2012 06:57 PM

The MLS is nothing more than a minor pro league they will never be able to play players like they do in spain italy england.The nhl is the top hockey league where most of the top players play there is no comparison at present time.

Confucius 12-26-2012 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thom (Post 56821103)
The MLS is nothing more than a minor pro league they will never be able to play players like they do in spain italy england.The nhl is the top hockey league where most of the top players play there is no comparison at present time.

The point of the thread was MLS surpassing the NHL in revenue, not the MLS becoming the worlds best soccer league. I say it definitely happens and it won't be long. Depending if NHL fans in the U S follow though and boycott the NHL, the MLS will pass the NHL even sooner than I think.

coolasprICE 12-26-2012 07:19 PM

Big market teams mostly in Canada will keep the NHL ahead of the MLS in terms of league revenues.

But the MLS could very well overtake the NHL in smaller markets, and markets where the NHL has no presence.

But the big Canadian cities (Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver) in itself create hundreds of millions for the NHL and I doubt that the MLS will ever come close to any of these 3 cities in any market (and let's not forget about NY).

IU Hawks fan 12-26-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stix and Stones (Post 56821023)
Yeah some cities are late to the party however Chicago will do well someday at least they're in already. Wait 10 years...

Nothing is going to change in 10 years for the Fire. The stadium isn't convenient for anyone coming from the city or northern suburbs, where a lot of potential fans would be coming from.

IU Hawks fan 12-26-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolasprICE (Post 56821525)
Big market teams mostly in Canada will keep the NHL ahead of the MLS in terms of league revenues.

But the MLS could very well overtake the NHL in smaller markets, and markets where the NHL has no presence.

But the big Canadian cities (Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver) in itself create hundreds of millions for the NHL and I doubt that the MLS will ever come close to any of these 3 cities in any market (and let's not forget about NY).

There are TONS of US markets where the MLS will never close to reaching their NHL counterparts. Don't make this a Canadian superiority thing...

coolasprICE 12-26-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan (Post 56821617)
There are TONS of US markets where the MLS will never close to reaching their NHL counterparts. Don't make this a Canadian superiority thing...

In the short term, maybe. In the long term, you are speculating.

You don't know what will be in 20 years. However, I would bet my life, that within this time frame no MLS team will come close to the value of Canada's big hockey markets. You can't say the same for US markets.


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