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-   -   Top Ten Canucks Defensemen - #3 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1312211)

kmad 12-27-2012 04:37 AM

Top Ten Canucks Defensemen - #3
 
1. Mattias Ohlund (42.86%)
2. Jyrki Lumme (51.06%)

I'll keep the polls open for three days each.

Adding Paul Reinhart. I doubt anyone else will have a shot at the top ten so I won't add any more.

DJOpus 12-27-2012 12:11 PM

This should have gone Lumme, Special Ed, then Ohlund IMO.

Barney Gumble 12-27-2012 12:47 PM

Now way should Jovocop in the top three IMHO. I'd put Salo in over him (both guys had injury issues as a Canuck - so that factor is a wash when comparing the two); far better player defensively - moreso than the added offense from Jovo. Call me nuts, but I'd even rank Bieksa higher.

I think the difference between Lumme & Ohlund comes down to whether one favors a guy with the longer very steady - though unspectacular - career as a Canuck vs to one who had a excelled at that position (though for a shorter period of time).

Royal Canuck 12-27-2012 03:52 PM

Went with Jovo, Hamhuis and Edler close behind.

y2kcanucks 12-27-2012 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJOpus (Post 56832921)
This should have gone Lumme, Special Ed, then Ohlund IMO.

This.

Reverend Mayhem 12-27-2012 05:06 PM

No love for Dennis Kearns?

Luck 6 12-27-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJOpus (Post 56832921)
This should have gone Lumme, Special Ed, then Ohlund IMO.

Agreed.

ginner classic 12-27-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck 6 (Post 56844527)
Agreed.

Maybe if it was best offensive defenseman...then sure.

Ohlund was a far better D-man than anyone the Canucks have ever had. I am still surprised how few people get that. It should have been 80% for Ohlund in the first poll. I think people are spending too much time looking at stats and not enough watching the games.

"Over 11 seasons with the Canucks, Ohlund registered team records of 93 goals and 325 points as a defenceman. His 232 assists ranked fourth amonth all-time Canucks defencemen, while his 770 games played was second among defencemen and fifth overall"

As voted by the fans:

The Babe Pratt Trophy was first awarded for the 1972–73 season as the Premier's Trophy. After the death of Hall of Fame defenceman and Canucks goodwill ambassador Babe Pratt, the trophy was renamed in honour of him for the 1989–90 season. Originally, the trophy's recipient was decided by local media, but is now decided by fan vote.

The most prolific award winners in the trophy's history have been:
Mattias Ohlund - 4 times (1998, 2000, 2004, 2006)
Jyrki Lumme - 4 (1992, 1994, 1996, 1997)
Doug Lidster - 4 (1985, 1986, 1987, 1991)
Harold Snepsts - 4 (1978, 1979, 1980, 1982)
Ed Jovanovski - 3 (2001, 2002, 2003)

Other notables:
Over-Time Goals Regular Season (all players) - 4th
Playoff Points (D) - 2nd
Way higher PPG in playoffs than regular season

Luck 6 12-27-2012 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginner classic (Post 56844995)
Maybe if it was best offensive defenseman...then sure.

Ohlund was a far better D-man than anyone the Canucks have ever had. I am still surprised how few people get that. It should have been 80% for Ohlund in the first poll. I think people are spending too much time looking at stats and not enough watching the games.

"Over 11 seasons with the Canucks, Ohlund registered team records of 93 goals and 325 points as a defenceman. His 232 assists ranked fourth amonth all-time Canucks defencemen, while his 770 games played was second among defencemen and fifth overall"

As voted by the fans:

The Babe Pratt Trophy was first awarded for the 197273 season as the Premier's Trophy. After the death of Hall of Fame defenceman and Canucks goodwill ambassador Babe Pratt, the trophy was renamed in honour of him for the 198990 season. Originally, the trophy's recipient was decided by local media, but is now decided by fan vote.

The most prolific award winners in the trophy's history have been:
Mattias Ohlund - 4 times (1998, 2000, 2004, 2006)
Jyrki Lumme - 4 (1992, 1994, 1996, 1997)
Doug Lidster - 4 (1985, 1986, 1987, 1991)
Harold Snepsts - 4 (1978, 1979, 1980, 1982)
Ed Jovanovski - 3 (2001, 2002, 2003)

Other notables:
Over-Time Goals Regular Season (all players) - 4th
Playoff Points (D) - 2nd
Way higher PPG in playoffs than regular season

Ohlund had a great career as a Canuck, no question. If you were to start a poll asking who was the better player, Lumme or Ohlund, Lumme would win hands down. And since his prime years were spent as a Canuck, he should win.

ginner classic 12-27-2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luck 6 (Post 56845319)
Ohlund had a great career as a Canuck, no question. If you were to start a poll asking who was the better player, Lumme or Ohlund, Lumme would win hands down. And since his prime years were spent as a Canuck, he should win.

Ohlund wins this hands down among people that were around (as adults) to see them both. I've been watching since 1979. He is the best Canuck D I have seen in my lifetime by a wide margin. But I value things other than offense.

archangel archangel 12-28-2012 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem (Post 56841729)
No love for Dennis Kearns?

doubt the board is old enough to remember how good he was

kmad 12-28-2012 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcrazycanuck (Post 56851395)
doubt the board is old enough to remember how good he was

For the better. He was awful. He was worse defensively than Phil Housley.

DJOpus 12-28-2012 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginner classic (Post 56844995)
Mattias Ohlund - 4 times (1998, 2000, 2004, 2006)
Ed Jovanovski - 3 (2001, 2002, 2003)

So in 3 of the 4 years that Jovo managed to play over 57 games he was voted better than Ohlund oonly losing in his first year in Vancouver (granted Ohlund only played 65, 81, and 59 games in those seasons). It is really hard for me to say Ohlund was the best ever when he wasn't even really the best during his prime years.

KidCanuck* 12-28-2012 03:33 AM

Wow this list of garbage really puts things in perspective of how mediocre this teams defense has been since this franchise began. Jovo leading the way for 3rd best d man in our history. I would have to agree that he is number 3 but how sad is that, a -76 career guy as our 3rd best ever.

knivez 12-28-2012 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Canuck (Post 56852841)
Wow this list of garbage really puts things in perspective of how mediocre this teams defense has been since this franchise began. Jovo leading the way for 3rd best d man in our history. I would have to agree that he is number 3 but how sad is that, a -76 career guy as our 3rd best ever.

Let's not pretend Jovo was a scrub during his time here. Twice named to the Canadian Olympic roster (even though he didn't play in 2006 due to injury), Olympic gold medal in 2002, named to the World Cup roster in 2004...of all the true "best on best" tournaments over the last decade, Jovo was selected to be part of Team Canada to all of them. All this plus three time NHL all-star. He was a lot better than people give him credit for now.

maroon 6 12-28-2012 06:06 AM

Salo because of "longetivity" lol

Reverend Mayhem 12-28-2012 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg (Post 56852223)
For the better. He was awful. He was worse defensively than Phil Housley.

Jovo wasn't exactly Scott Stevens either. I'd argue he had more to work with on his strong side of the puck than Kearns did.

KidCanuck* 12-28-2012 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knivez (Post 56854809)
Let's not pretend Jovo was a scrub during his time here. Twice named to the Canadian Olympic roster (even though he didn't play in 2006 due to injury), Olympic gold medal in 2002, named to the World Cup roster in 2004...of all the true "best on best" tournaments over the last decade, Jovo was selected to be part of Team Canada to all of them. All this plus three time NHL all-star. He was a lot better than people give him credit for now.

Special Ed

Reverend Mayhem 12-28-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJOpus (Post 56852715)
So in 3 of the 4 years that Jovo managed to play over 57 games he was voted better than Ohlund oonly losing in his first year in Vancouver (granted Ohlund only played 65, 81, and 59 games in those seasons). It is really hard for me to say Ohlund was the best ever when he wasn't even really the best during his prime years.

Ehhh...Jovanovski I believe was revered because of his offensive capabilities and big body presence than Ohlund's much rounder game and steadiness on the back end. Though not to say Ohlund was M-A Bergeron however, he just didn't use it as much as Jovo did.

Let's just say if I am counting on someone to hold the fort for the last minute of a game, I take Ohlund.

ginner classic 12-28-2012 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJOpus (Post 56852715)
So in 3 of the 4 years that Jovo managed to play over 57 games he was voted better than Ohlund oonly losing in his first year in Vancouver (granted Ohlund only played 65, 81, and 59 games in those seasons). It is really hard for me to say Ohlund was the best ever when he wasn't even really the best during his prime years.

That award is voted on by fans, not hockey people. Jovo deserved to win in one of those years, a saw off. In a second and not at all in a third.

ginner classic 12-28-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg (Post 56827215)
1. Mattias Ohlund (42.86%)
2. Jyrki Lumme (51.06%)

I'll keep the polls open for three days each.

Adding Paul Reinhart. I doubt anyone else will have a shot at the top ten so I won't add any more.

You could make a case for diduck being better than a couple of those guys.

arshonagon 12-28-2012 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginner classic (Post 56844995)
Maybe if it was best offensive defenseman...then sure.

Ohlund was a far better D-man than anyone the Canucks have ever had. I am still surprised how few people get that. It should have been 80% for Ohlund in the first poll. I think people are spending too much time looking at stats and not enough watching the games.

"Over 11 seasons with the Canucks, Ohlund registered team records of 93 goals and 325 points as a defenceman. His 232 assists ranked fourth amonth all-time Canucks defencemen, while his 770 games played was second among defencemen and fifth overall"

As voted by the fans:

The Babe Pratt Trophy was first awarded for the 197273 season as the Premier's Trophy. After the death of Hall of Fame defenceman and Canucks goodwill ambassador Babe Pratt, the trophy was renamed in honour of him for the 198990 season. Originally, the trophy's recipient was decided by local media, but is now decided by fan vote.

The most prolific award winners in the trophy's history have been:
Mattias Ohlund - 4 times (1998, 2000, 2004, 2006)
Jyrki Lumme - 4 (1992, 1994, 1996, 1997)
Doug Lidster - 4 (1985, 1986, 1987, 1991)
Harold Snepsts - 4 (1978, 1979, 1980, 1982)
Ed Jovanovski - 3 (2001, 2002, 2003)

Other notables:
Over-Time Goals Regular Season (all players) - 4th
Playoff Points (D) - 2nd
Way higher PPG in playoffs than regular season

Having not watched Lumme, I will just compare Ohlund and Jovo. To em Jovo was the better player, it is close but I give the edge to Jovo in that he could will the team to a victory. Ohlund, while being a steady presence and very good at every aspect of the game, did not have the ability to pick up the game on his shoulders and will his team to victory. Jovo could do this, and did do this on a consistent basis over his career with the Canucks. That is why I rank Jovo higher, but just slightly.

Hammer Time 12-28-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJOpus (Post 56852715)
So in 3 of the 4 years that Jovo managed to play over 57 games he was voted better than Ohlund oonly losing in his first year in Vancouver (granted Ohlund only played 65, 81, and 59 games in those seasons). It is really hard for me to say Ohlund was the best ever when he wasn't even really the best during his prime years.

Keep in mind that fan voting is not always the best indicator of who's the better player. Edler was named our most valuable defenceman this year over Hamhuis, an award I cannot agree with.

Barney Gumble 12-28-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshonagon (Post 56867805)
Having not watched Lumme, I will just compare Ohlund and Jovo. To em Jovo was the better player, it is close but I give the edge to Jovo in that he could will the team to a victory. Ohlund, while being a steady presence and very good at every aspect of the game, did not have the ability to pick up the game on his shoulders and will his team to victory. Jovo could do this, and did do this on a consistent basis over his career with the Canucks. That is why I rank Jovo higher, but just slightly.

Remember the last year Jovo was on the team - who was in the penalty box when Calgary scored that OT series winning goal (worse, it was a needless penalty).

Bieksa has done more to help the Canucks advance in the post-season.

ginner classic 12-28-2012 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arshonagon (Post 56867805)
Having not watched Lumme, I will just compare Ohlund and Jovo. To em Jovo was the better player, it is close but I give the edge to Jovo in that he could will the team to a victory. Ohlund, while being a steady presence and very good at every aspect of the game, did not have the ability to pick up the game on his shoulders and will his team to victory. Jovo could do this, and did do this on a consistent basis over his career with the Canucks. That is why I rank Jovo higher, but just slightly.

Ohlund increased his point totals by quite a bit in the playoffs and is fourth all time on the Canucks in overtime goals. He absolutely carried the team on his shoulders. Jovo had great offensive talent but was good for one major gaffe per game and was sitting in the penalty box in OT when we lost to Calgary the last time we met in the playoffs.


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