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-   -   Proposal: D-man needed for Nielsen and....... (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1313029)

petrocelli 12-29-2012 12:09 AM

D-man needed for Nielsen and.......
 
Hey all,

I was just going over next year's lineup for the New York Islanders and we seem to have a lot of depth at the center position once Ryan Strome, Casey Cizikas and Brock Nelson make the leap. Although it is very unlikely that he gets moved, it looks like the Isles have the flexibility to move Frans Nielsen. Maybe even package our first round pick along with Nielsen if we could get our hands on an NHL defenseman (not another D prospect, an actual NHL ready player).

I'd be willing to trade our first this year if we are not able to land Seth Jones. So let's say we have the 7th overall pick and package it with Frans Nielsen and maybe even a mid-level prospect if need be. What does it land us????

Isles trade:

Frans Nielsen
1st round pick (7th overall)
mid-level prospect

For:
??????


Anyone have a D-man for me?????

Nuckles 12-29-2012 12:18 AM

Inb4 Keith Ballard

Vankiller Whale 12-29-2012 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuckles37 (Post 56887973)
Inb4 Keith Ballard

Shoot.

Ballard for Nielsen straight up I would do. I don't know how high NYI are on Nielsen right now, but he would make a good 3rd line C for us, I think.

Is there any deal to be made from an Islanders point of view? Most likely not, but Ballard is still capable of taking top-4 minutes, and his cap hit is not as bad to a cap floor team.

PWJunior 12-29-2012 12:54 AM

In before blinkman mentions Keith Yandle. :)

It'll be hard to find anyone available for a package that's comparable to petrocelli's proposed deal. Jordan Staal went for something comparable value-wise, but that was a special case because the Pens needed to unload him.

boredmale 12-29-2012 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrocelli (Post 56887857)
1st round pick (7th overall)

This is making a huge guess where we will end up picking. Assuming their is no season and they do a random draw, I am guessing the Islanders will end up anywhere between 1-20(unless they really get unlucky)

All that being said the Islanders just signed Nielsen to a team friendly contract, it would sort of send out bad signals trading him before he even gets to play one game of it.

_Del_ 12-29-2012 12:59 AM

You aren't going to like the answers that you get. When you package the seventh overall with a solid center, you're looking for a star defenseman back. The trouble is that most teams with star defensemen aren't looking to unload those guys for first round picks (or Nielsen).
I think you're better off setting your sights a bit lower and trading Nielsen for a reliable defensemen.

Nuckles 12-29-2012 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Del_ (Post 56888461)
You aren't going to like the answers that you get. When you package the seventh overall with a solid center, you're looking for a star defenseman back. The trouble is that most teams with star defensemen aren't looking to unload those guys for first round picks (or Nielsen).
I think you're better off setting your sights a bit lower and trading Nielsen for a reliable defensemen.

Bingo.

Chicago might have interest, as many Blackhawks fans want to move Hjalmarsson for a 2nd line center.

As Vankiller Whale stated, the Canucks would love to get him as a 3rd line center, but our only available d-man would probably be Ballard, and he hasn't exactly played great since coming to Vancouver.

Kershaw 12-29-2012 01:24 AM

Why do the Isles need another defender?

Streit-Hamonic
Jurcina-Visnovsky
MacDonald-De Haan

is as solid as any d core in the league

Phion Keneuf 12-29-2012 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 56888753)
Why do the Isles need another defender?

Streit-Hamonic
Jurcina-Visnovsky
MacDonald-De Haan

is as solid as any d core in the league

Lol Jurcina.

petrocelli 12-29-2012 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 56888753)
Why do the Isles need another defender?

Streit-Hamonic
Jurcina-Visnovsky
MacDonald-De Haan

is as solid as any d core in the league


Jurcina was not resigned. De Haan was injured in the 5th game of Bridgeport's season and is missing the entire season once again. This is the second time he will miss more than half the season due to a shoulder injury... Streit is 35, Visnovshy is 36.... MacDonald is a good 3rd pairing D man............................... That leaves us........

Travis Hamonic......

kmad 12-29-2012 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 56888753)
Why do the Isles need another defender?

In addition, why would the Islanders want to trade Nielsen?

CREW99AW 12-29-2012 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 56888753)
Why do the Isles need another defender?

Streit-Hamonic
Jurcina-Visnovsky
MacDonald-De Haan

is as solid as any d core in the league

Jurcina's already gone as a ufa.:p:

36 yr olds Streit and Vis will be ufas in July. There have been no rumors, about the isles wanting to extend Streit's contract or him wanting to stick around.

Snow's saying expect more youngsters on the roster.So, who's NYI property in 2013-2014?
33 yr old vet Carkner
26 yr old vet McDonald
22 yr old Hamonic
22 yr old De Haan
22 yr old Donovan
22 yr old Ness
19 yr old Reinhart

CREW99AW 12-29-2012 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrocelli (Post 56888861)
Jurcina was not resigned. De Haan was injured in the 5th game of Bridgeport's season and is missing the entire season once again. This is the second time he will miss more than half the season due to a shoulder injury... Streit is 35, Visnovshy is 36.... MacDonald is a good 3rd paring D man............................... That leaves us........

Travis Hamonic......

You lose credibilty describing MacDonald is a good 3rd paring D.

CREW99AW 12-29-2012 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg (Post 56888873)
In addition, why would the Islanders want to trade Nielsen?

Isles haven't tried trading Nielsen. No one in the press says they want to.

An armchair gm,on a message, is the one saying trade Nielsen + for D.

kmad 12-29-2012 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 56889953)
Isles haven't tried trading Nielsen. No one in the press says they want to.

An armchair gm,on a message, is the one saying trade Nielsen + for D.

Yes. I know. I understand how message boards work, and I was putting the question out there for the OP.

fedfed 12-29-2012 04:58 AM

Green. Maybe.

CREW99AW 12-29-2012 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg (Post 56889973)
Yes. I know. I understand how message boards work, and I was putting the question out there for the OP.

sorry :laugh:

CREW99AW 12-29-2012 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fedfed (Post 56890013)
Green. Maybe.

With so many rookies pushing for blueline spots,Isles need someone to play well defensively and be a mentor over several seasons.

Is strong defensive play, really Green's calling card?;)

fedfed 12-29-2012 07:38 AM

I'll give you that - last season (when not injured) Green was often criticized by my fellow Caps fans for being too defensive-minded and not doing enough of what he's paid to do - creating offense with blazing speed and sharp passes. He's not a one-dimensional turnover machine anymore. He's very smart with when he should rush the play up ice and when he should just hold on to the puck and play it simple and safe. I think a lot has to do with less responsibility with emergence of Carlson/Alzner and finally partner better than Schultz/Morissonn in Hamrlik.
But he still changed the way he thinks the game and it's absolutely clear

petrocelli 12-29-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 56889935)
You lose credibilty describing MacDonald is a good 3rd paring D.

MacDonald gets pushed around our own goal crease like a rag doll. It's embarrassing. Besides that, he's a decent defenseman. Decent offensively.. Doesn't do anything great, but can log a good 15-20 minutes a night. If anything, I view MacDonald in the same light as Nielsen. On a good team, Nielsen is a third line centerman. On a team light on centermen or devoid of any scoring, Nielsen can be pushed up to 2nd line. MacDonald is similar in that if he is playing on your first pair, you'll be picking top 3 overall in the entry draft every year. If he is on your second pairing, you can get away with it, but still probably not a very good or deep team of defensemen. He fits somewhere 4-6... If he is on your last pairing as your #5 D-man, it's probably a deep, playoff contending blueline...

That is the problem with the Islanders. Expectations are so low that fans convince themselves players are better than they really are...... I'd like to not only see this team make the playoffs, but actually compete when they get there... and I see MacDonald as a bottom pairing player that can step up to your 2nd pairing when injuries call for it. If he's on your 2nd pairing opening night, good luck with that.

turkulad 12-29-2012 10:12 AM

If Ballard would genuinely fill a need for the Isles, and the value fits, let's just make this happen. Add in a prospect downgrade (for the Nucks) if the need be. Ballard + Rodin for Nielsen + lesser NYI prospect. And we wouldn't have to deal Ballard proposals for a long, long time. Nielsen would also fit perfectly into the Nucks scheme of things. Wouldn't have to force-feed Schroeder that 3C spot anymore.

petrocelli 12-29-2012 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagorim Jarg (Post 56888873)
In addition, why would the Islanders want to trade Nielsen?

Jaromir,

I know the Isles trading Nielsen is a long shot, nor do I think he really NEEDS to be traded. He is a good player and doesn't hurt the Isles.. I was just looking at the Isles potential depth up the middle along with our lack thereof on the blueline. Certain players on the horizon bring elements lacking in Nielsen. Brock Nelson is 6'4 with loads of offensive potential. Ryan Strome has top-notch playmaking and scoring ability. Casey Cizikas is a really good 3/4th line center. Brings speed, offensive potential and a physical presence. Cizikas likes to mix it up and that physical presence is something Nielsen doesn't bring. There are also two wild cards, one of which I am super high on, in Anders Lee and Johan Sundstrom........

So to simply answer your question, why do I want to trade Nielsen, it is because of the aforementioned talent we have knocking on the door, along with the need for an NHL ready D-man. It's not that I want to trade Nielsen, I like his game. It is simply a matter of trading from an area of strength/depth to improve an area of weakness.

It's been a long off-season... Just having a bit of fun playing fantasy GM.. :)

CREW99AW 12-29-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrocelli (Post 56893479)
MacDonald gets pushed around our own goal crease like a rag doll. It's embarrassing. Besides that, he's a decent defenseman. Decent offensively.. Doesn't do anything great, but can log a good 15-20 minutes a night. If anything, I view MacDonald in the same light as Nielsen. On a good team, Nielsen is a third line centerman. On a team light on centermen or devoid of any scoring, Nielsen can be pushed up to 2nd line. MacDonald is similar in that if he is playing on your first pair, you'll be picking top 3 overall in the entry draft every year. If he is on your second pairing, you can get away with it, but still probably not a very good or deep team of defensemen. He fits somewhere 4-6... If he is on your last pairing as your #5 D-man, it's probably a deep, playoff contending blueline...

That is the problem with the Islanders. Expectations are so low that fans convince themselves players are better than they really are...... I'd like to not only see this team make the playoffs, but actually compete when they get there... and I see MacDonald as a bottom pairing player that can step up to your 2nd pairing when injuries call for it. If he's on your 2nd pairing opening night, good luck with that.

MacDonald has played quality top pairing minutes for 2 yrs now. Frans Nielsen is a strong defensive 5 on 5 player and strong pk player.They are among the least of the NYI problems. The fact that the 6'0 190 lbs MacDonald is not a crease clearer means jack. Get a bigger, more physical d-man for that role.



Expecting 35/36 yr olds Streit and Vis to rebound from disappointing 2011-2012 seasons could be a problem.

Expecting Boyes, coming off his 8 goal season to replace Parenteau in the top 6, could be a problem. Keeping Nabakov sharp if they go with a 3 goalie rotation, could be a problem

Instead of getting the ROY all set for Brock Nelson or Strome, how about letting one of them actually win the 2nd line spot from Frans Nielsen?

petrocelli 12-29-2012 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turkulad (Post 56893701)
If Ballard would genuinely fill a need for the Isles, and the value fits, let's just make this happen. Add in a prospect downgrade (for the Nucks) if the need be. Ballard + Rodin for Nielsen + lesser NYI prospect. And we wouldn't have to deal Ballard proposals for a long, long time. Nielsen would also fit perfectly into the Nucks scheme of things. Wouldn't have to force-feed Schroeder that 3C spot anymore.

Scaling down the trade a bit to something like this (Ballard for Nielsen) is pretty close and makes sense from a hockey standpoint, not necessarily from a salary standpoint, and unfortunately, it's the salary standpoint which holds the most weight.... Nielsen has a team friendly deal in place..... Ballard is earning a lot more than he is producing... But Ballard would certainly be an upgrade from Jurcina, Staois, Reese for the next new years...

tsujimoto74 12-29-2012 10:25 AM

Something around Andrej Sekera maybe? I'd hate giving him up, but Buffalo could use a solid defensive C, and a top 10 pick in this draft would be great. Sekera is fairly young, a good shutdown d-man (and he can play either side -- left or right), and he's on a very cheap contract that only pays 1.75M in its last 2 years.

Probably would need to be a + from Buffalo's side, but it seems like an OK basis for a deal?


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