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-   -   Speculation: Paul Martin Trade or Buyout? (if there's a season) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1313059)

jmelm 12-29-2012 12:54 AM

Paul Martin Trade or Buyout? (if there's a season)
 
If the NHL's latest proposal spurs any traction, I think we will VERY quickly see some kind of movement on Paul Martin's future with this team:


What is being proposed is a one-time, one-player buyout "exemption" that wouldn't count against the cap. Now, I have no doubt that Shero has been working on trade options for Martin for sometime now, and may even have a pending deal in place (pending the details of the new CBA, of course). I do believe Martin can have some value to certain teams, both as a capable Dman, as well as somebody to help them hit the cap floor.


Part of what is currently on the table in the NHL's proposal is a salary cap for this season remaining at $70.2 million, but then dropping to $60 million for next season. Now, normally I am not a fan of rushing young players (i.e. Despres, etc) into top-4 roles; and if Martin were to come back this year and have a great season, then he could actually help us win now and increase his stock. But if he stagnates or fails to significantly improve his play, can we really afford to miss out on the one-time opportunity to buy-out this player?


Now granted, I don't know when the window will be to buy out players: specifically, whether it will have to occur prior to this season commencing, or next summer prior to the cap declining. But if it is the former, I think we need to buy this player out if we cannot trade him for a decent return.


Thoughts?

shureshot66 12-29-2012 02:22 AM

According to Pierre LeBrun, the window would last until the start of the 2013-14 season. So there would be a good deal of flexibility with any decision.

Captain Hook 12-29-2012 05:02 AM

Yeah, I don't see him being moved or bought out right away. Pens can afford to take some time with this.

I do think the fire has already been lit under Martin and he knows it. He knows he absolutely has to start playing better especially with a buyout possibly an option. Pens will give him one last chance to turn things around or use the buyout option if he doesn't. My guess is he won't be bought out until this off-season (summer) at the earliest.

theicebox 12-29-2012 06:22 AM

I will personally donate money to the buyout fund.

bigd 12-29-2012 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Hook (Post 56890041)
Yeah, I don't see him being moved or bought out right away. Pens can afford to take some time with this.

I do think the fire has already been lit under Martin and he knows it. He knows he absolutely has to start playing better especially with a buyout possibly an option. Pens will give him one last chance to turn things around or use the buyout option if he doesn't. My guess is he won't be bought out until this off-season (summer) at the earliest.

I agree, they won't make any rash decissions since they are under the cap already but that one buy option puts all the big salary players on notice. If they don't play up to thier contract they could be playing somewhere else next season.

Ogrezilla 12-29-2012 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shureshot66 (Post 56889191)
According to Pierre LeBrun, the window would last until the start of the 2013-14 season. So there would be a good deal of flexibility with any decision.

buy him out at that point imo. If a good trade is available take it, but as of right now he is worth having on this team until we actually need the cap space or can get something in return for him.

PensBandwagonerNo272 12-29-2012 07:35 AM

Hopefully he would have a decent season to up his value enough to be part of a package at the deadline.

malkovsby 12-29-2012 07:45 AM

there could be a fairly large pool of serviceable players available if this buyout clause goes into effect...i cant see teams waiting very long to rid themselves of unwanted contracts, and seeing the low price shero accepted for michalek i cant see him waiting by the phone long for offers relating to martin...in that case i think a buyout is more likely and then filling the gap with a free agent at a discount.

Mr Jiggyfly 12-29-2012 07:55 AM

Did Shero make a trade for a top four blueliner that I missed?

It's been awhile, but all I recall is trading one away in June.

The Martin hate on here is silly.

malkovsby 12-29-2012 08:09 AM

pens pay martin top 4 D dollars but you cant say he has played like the dman envisioned when they signed him...especially during the playoff disaster of last spring

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 12-29-2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly (Post 56891399)
Did Shero make a trade for a top four blueliner that I missed?

It's been awhile, but all I recall is trading one away in June.

The Martin hate on here is silly.

I understand wanting to give him the chance to redeem himself based on his track record, but how is the Martin hate here not every bit deserved? He was utter **** last season, and embarrassingly unengaged when we needed him most.

We got better when the 5 Million Dollar Man got hurt and replaced by rookies. That speaks volumes.

Sivek 12-29-2012 08:23 AM

If he plays like last season they're going to have a hard time moving him and getting any type of value since his caphit will look even worse under a tighter salary cap.

Either way, I don't see them doing anything with him, trade or buyout wise, until after the potential 2012-13 season. With Geno and Letang both hitting UFA the same year (following 2013-14 season) I can't see them keeping Martin around past 2013-14 in any scenario. He'll just be making too much money and the Pens have a lot of fish to fry in the 2013-14 off-season, with Geno, Letang, Kunitz, Sutter (RFA), Niskanen and possibly TK all hitting some level of free agency.

mpp9 12-29-2012 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper (Post 56891731)
I understand wanting to give him the chance to redeem himself based on his track record, but how is the Martin hate here not every bit deserved? He was utter **** last season, and embarrassingly unengaged when we needed him most.

We got better when the 5 Million Dollar Man got hurt and replaced by rookies. That speaks volumes.

Can't afford to move him with Z gone now. May as well give him a chance to redeem himself. Will only help us down the line. Becomes a solid partner for Letang and/or we move him for a quality return when our prospects are ready to step in.

UnrealMachine 12-29-2012 09:00 AM

Martin seemed to have turned things around last season before the playoffs. He was +20 over the last 21 games. Using a one-time buyout on him would be a waste. Save those for players who enter the "untradeable contract" territory. He's not anywhere near that.

bigd 12-29-2012 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnrealMachine (Post 56892313)
Martin seemed to have turned things around last season before the playoffs. He was +20 over the last 21 games. Using a one-time buyout on him would be a waste. Save those for players who enter the "untradeable contract" territory. He's not anywhere near that.

Haven't heard much about him through out this lock out. Is he in Pitt skating with his teamates? What has he been doing to keep in shape?

Rowdy Roddy Peeper 12-29-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpp9 (Post 56892171)
Can't afford to move him with Z gone now. May as well give him a chance to redeem himself. Will only help us down the line. Becomes a solid partner for Letang and/or we move him for a quality return when our prospects are ready to step in.

Like I said, I understand wanting to give him the opportunity to turn things around, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

What's also understandable is the hate for him. He makes 5 mil per and was terrible for most of last year, culminating in the most gutless defense I've seen from a defenseman in the playoffs. You can't do much more to earn hate on-ice than Martin did in '11-'12, short of Wade Redden.

Vujtek 12-29-2012 09:09 AM

It's going to be interesting to see what Shero does with Martin. He'll need to keep in mind that Malkin and Letang will need raises soon and those will kick in the same year as Martin is playing the final year of his contract. Shero can't even give Malkin a Crosby-type of deal anymore so the cap hit might rise to over $10 million per year. Martin's final year may be a burden to the team regardless of Martin's level of play at that point. Then again Martin is only one of the 4 guys locked up for that 14-15 season (the others being Sid, Neal and Flower) so there's flexibility but those guys with Malkin and Letang and that's huge amount of cap taken by only a handful of guys.

This will be a cap driven decision.

mpp9 12-29-2012 09:10 AM

He was garbage. Maybe the hate will light a fire under him.

Vujtek 12-29-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnrealMachine (Post 56892313)
Martin seemed to have turned things around last season before the playoffs. He was +20 over the last 21 games. Using a one-time buyout on him would be a waste. Save those for players who enter the "untradeable contract" territory. He's not anywhere near that.

Martin is our most "untradeable contract" right now. I'm not saying Martin would be untradeable as I very much think he's still a capable D-man but there's also no question about his contract being the worst on this team. And as far as I know you can't save that one-time cap free buyout but would need to use before next season which is why it'll be used on Martin or not used at all.

Le Magnifique 66 12-29-2012 09:23 AM

I'd keep him for this year and see if he can turn things around. If not he gets moved in the next off season

Ugene Malkin 12-29-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vujtek (Post 56892451)
It's going to be interesting to see what Shero does with Martin. He'll need to keep in mind that Malkin and Letang will need raises soon and those will kick in the same year as Martin is playing the final year of his contract. Shero can't even give Malkin a Crosby-type of deal anymore so the cap hit might rise to over $10 million per year. Martin's final year may be a burden to the team regardless of Martin's level of play at that point. Then again Martin is only one of the 4 guys locked up for that 14-15 season (the others being Sid, Neal and Flower) so there's flexibility but those guys with Malkin and Letang and that's huge amount of cap taken by only a handful of guys.

This will be a cap driven decision.

Don't forget Sutter, and many guys become UFA/RFA the next couple seasons. This team will have a serious make over real soon.

As soon as Martin shows promise that he's back you trade him. With how things are going to be changed they can't afford to hold onto guys that are not in the future plans, and plans have seriously changed. So I'd say that window of trade/buyout might be wide but if he's tradeable at any point do it. 48 games or less really is like getting ready for a full season in 13/14.

End of Line 12-29-2012 10:29 AM

No not yet. Keep him for one more year.

Jag68Sid87 12-29-2012 10:32 AM

I think bigd made a good observation...where is Martin? Is he skating, has he played in any charity games? Is he 100 per cent recovered from whatever it is was ailing him last spring (was it officially a concussion?).

It's pretty hard to pencil Martin in as a clear-cut top-four rearguard right now, since he was outplayed by the likes of Despres and Strait in the playoff debacle against Philly. But, with only seven or so days of camp IF we get started here, the veteran Martin would certainly have a leg up on the kids.

That said, I sure as hell wouldn't hand Martin anything. He was bad enough last spring that he needs to re-establish himself.

I think a buyout would come this summer, if he is still playing terrible hockey. I doubt we'll see a trade. If he is still awful, nobody will want him. If he rebounds, we'll want to keep him.

theicebox 12-29-2012 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 (Post 56894099)
I doubt we'll see a trade. If he is still awful, nobody will want him. If he rebounds, we'll want to keep him.

I respectfully disagree with your last assertion. Our prospect assets are on D, you trade Martin in this scenario so you can invest his excess caphit on getting the Two-Headed Monster some new Wings.

Darth Vitale 12-29-2012 11:28 AM

He will be gone before the start of next year, when the cap would --under this plan-- drop from (prorated) $70M to $60M, and by which time, Malkin must be extended and Letang too. He's history. The only question is trade now for inexpensive assets (not a pricey winger), or buyout this summer. I'm not even sure he'll get games or not. For a full season he would because of how young the D is, but in this situation... I can see Shero saying "**** it, let's let the kids play this year and see how they hold up."


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