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-   -   Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1313525)

TmlHockeyFan 12-30-2012 10:20 AM

Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?
 
Well since the last year of the contract was not fair to him, do you think he deserves to redeem himself? He was rebuilding after all and the lockout was not fair for his last year to prove that his team can make the playoffs. Even a shortened season would not be fair to him.

We probably won't resign Connolly, Steckel, Lombardi so that gives him a lot of capspace to sign a good UFA.

If it were me I'd give him one more chance by giving him one more year.

blasted_Sabre 12-30-2012 10:37 AM

5 years. Sign him up

eyeball11 12-30-2012 10:47 AM

Everything's moving the way it is supposed to, why have someone else blow it up?

AK1990 12-30-2012 10:52 AM

I want to start off by apologizing to you because I don't want you to take this personally. This is really a message to anyone on this board who thinks Burke should be canned or given 1 more year to "redeem himself/ prove himself".

What has Burke done that makes him worthy of being fired?

- Kessel Trade? NO. He got a 22-23 year old proven 30 goal scorer in Kessel...who happens to have scored 30 goals every year since joining the Leafs...he's finished in top 5 in scoring and one can argue is a top 5-10 winger in the entire NHL. Oh yea, hes only 25 still! Yes, he ended up giving two high picks that turned out to be Seguin who will be a stud in the NHL and a defenseman who HAS YET TO PLAY A SINGLE GAME IN THE NHL...yes, he has the chance to be good even great but you've gotten yourself a proven commodity whose also very young. Not many teams have a game breaker in the way Kessel is on the ice. He's a chance to score every shift.

-- Also, Pretty sure Seguin wouldn't be as dominant in Toronto as he is on a stacked contending team. Just saying!

- Acquired Lupul & Gardiner -- pure genius!

- Lombardi & Franson - got us a 6'5 defenseman who has a cannon from the point. Yes, he hasn't become a force out there. However, look what he gave up. Lombardi was taking a hit to get a potential top 4 defenseman in Franson. Even if he's a 5-6 its still a good trade!

- Got rid of Jason Blakes contract - enough said!

Ron Wilson - wasn't hired by Burke...happened to be his best friend and it didn't work out so he fired him. IF you can say you'd just fire your best friend the second they sucked, then you'd be a ****** friend...not to mention they were doing really well in the first 2/3rds of the season last year.

- Tim Connolly signing - Connolly when healthy is leaps and bounds better then Bozak. Connolly when healthy can put up 50-70 points. Better passer then Bozak. Also, Gives Naz time to develop and it looks like its paying off as Naz has shown this year he's becoming a more consistant and better rounded player. Oh yea, was 2 friggin year contract not a big deal.

Komisarek - MISTAKE # 1

Gerber - MISTAKE # 2...same time I respect the man for wanting to make his team as best as possible but in the end the pick was going to BOS so really, he tried to ease the sting of giving up a top pick.

Drafting Biggs, Percy, Ross, McKegg, RIELLY (looks like a beauty of a pick), Finn...don't really see any mistakes there worth getting fired over, do you?

Dion Phaneuf - Again, who cares how much he makes BURKE DIDNT SIGN HIM TO THAT CONTRACT!!! he only gave up NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL

So yes, 4 years and no playoffs but do you all have amnesia? do you forget how brutal this team was before Burke got here?

Let me remind you...

Blake/Stajan/Ponikarovsky --- first line

So why is it fair that Burke should be fired? do you realize how much work it takes to get a stanley cup winner? or even a good hockey team? It took LA gm 9 YEARS to make the Kings what they are...so why is Burke only allowed 4? how many years has Sather been the GM of the Rangers? only the last few seasons they've been good and in contention in last year. Remember all those years when they missed the playoffs? I certainly do!

So please, please give me your arguments that proves Burke should be fired? or only given 1 more year to "redeem" himself. LOL learn something about hockey. Rome wasn't built in a day...NOR WILL THE LEAFS!

Ps. GM in Edmonton has tanked it for 4 season and yet they may miss the playoffs the next season. Sure they have ridiculous talent on forward but their D is nothing to be proud of and their goaltending is as bad as ours...Guess he should be fired too? or given 1 more chance? Pretty sure they resigned him to 3 year extension? Burke will be as well. Oh yea, 1 more thing everyone wanted his head for not offering crazy big contracts with back diving salaries. Pretty sure those teams are screwed when the new CBA is finalized. Guess Burke didn't know what he was talking about all those times. Hmmm!

RogerRoeper* 12-30-2012 10:52 AM

Burke's contract is not up. He has another year. There's no rush.

RogerRoeper* 12-30-2012 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik Kristal (Post 56925499)
I want to start off by apologizing to you because I don't want you to take this personally. This is really a message to anyone on this board who thinks Burke should be canned or given 1 more year to "redeem himself/ prove himself".

What has Burke done that makes him worthy of being fired?

- Kessel Trade? NO. He got a 22-23 year old proven 30 goal scorer in Kessel...who happens to have scored 30 goals every year since joining the Leafs...he's finished in top 5 in scoring and one can argue is a top 5-10 winger in the entire NHL. Oh yea, hes only 25 still! Yes, he ended up giving two high picks that turned out to be Seguin who will be a stud in the NHL and a defenseman who HAS YET TO PLAY A SINGLE GAME IN THE NHL...yes, he has the chance to be good even great but you've gotten yourself a proven commodity whose also very young. Not many teams have a game breaker in the way Kessel is on the ice. He's a chance to score every shift.

-- Also, Pretty sure Seguin wouldn't be as dominant in Toronto as he is on a stacked contending team. Just saying!

- Acquired Lupul & Gardiner -- pure genius!

- Lombardi & Franson - got us a 6'5 defenseman who has a cannon from the point. Yes, he hasn't become a force out there. However, look what he gave up. Lombardi was taking a hit to get a potential top 4 defenseman in Franson. Even if he's a 5-6 its still a good trade!

- Got rid of Jason Blakes contract - enough said!

Ron Wilson - wasn't hired by Burke...happened to be his best friend and it didn't work out so he fired him. IF you can say you'd just fire your best friend the second they sucked, then you'd be a ****** friend...not to mention they were doing really well in the first 2/3rds of the season last year.

- Tim Connolly signing - Connolly when healthy is leaps and bounds better then Bozak. Connolly when healthy can put up 50-70 points. Better passer then Bozak. Also, Gives Naz time to develop and it looks like its paying off as Naz has shown this year he's becoming a more consistant and better rounded player. Oh yea, was 2 friggin year contract not a big deal.

Komisarek - MISTAKE # 1

Gerber - MISTAKE # 2...same time I respect the man for wanting to make his team as best as possible but in the end the pick was going to BOS so really, he tried to ease the sting of giving up a top pick.

Drafting Biggs, Percy, Ross, McKegg, RIELLY (looks like a beauty of a pick), Finn...don't really see any mistakes there worth getting fired over, do you?

Dion Phaneuf - Again, who cares how much he makes BURKE DIDNT SIGN HIM TO THAT CONTRACT!!! he only gave up NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL

So yes, 4 years and no playoffs but do you all have amnesia? do you forget how brutal this team was before Burke got here?

Let me remind you...

Blake/Stajan/Ponikarovsky --- first line

So why is it fair that Burke should be fired? do you realize how much work it takes to get a stanley cup winner? or even a good hockey team? It took LA gm 9 YEARS to make the Kings what they are...so why is Burke only allowed 4? how many years has Sather been the GM of the Rangers? only the last few seasons they've been good and in contention in last year. Remember all those years when they missed the playoffs? I certainly do!

So please, please give me your arguments that proves Burke should be fired? or only given 1 more year to "redeem" himself. LOL learn something about hockey. Rome wasn't built in a day...NOR WILL THE LEAFS!

Ps. GM in Edmonton has tanked it for 4 season and yet they may miss the playoffs the next season. Sure they have ridiculous talent on forward but their D is nothing to be proud of and their goaltending is as bad as ours...Guess he should be fired too? or given 1 more chance? Pretty sure they resigned him to 3 year extension? Burke will be as well. Oh yea, 1 more thing everyone wanted his head for not offering crazy big contracts with back diving salaries. Pretty sure those teams are screwed when the new CBA is finalized. Guess Burke didn't know what he was talking about all those times. Hmmm!

The Gerber pickup was made before the Kessel trade. The Leafs had the pick. They ended up with Kadri.

I defend Burke in a lot of areas, but picking up Gerber made me very angry. They were out of the playoffs already and had CUJO/Pogge ready to play.

AK1990 12-30-2012 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 56925553)
The Gerber pickup was made before the Kessel trade. The Leafs had the pick. They ended up with Kadri.

I defend Burke in a lot of areas, but picking up Gerber made me very angry. They were out of the playoffs already and had CUJO/Pogge ready to play.

My mistake. Okay, I remember that now. Fine, so he's made 2 mistakes Still not worthy of his job being in jeopardy thats just silly!!!

RogerRoeper* 12-30-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik Kristal (Post 56925765)
My mistake. Okay, I remember that now. Fine, so he's made 2 mistakes Still not worthy of his job being in jeopardy thats just silly!!!

I do agree that he doesn't deserve to be fired, especially with the lockout.

I think his drafting this past June was fantastic and has set the Leafs up on D for years to come.

Donmega 12-30-2012 11:19 AM

yes, I want burke resigned. We've sucked for so long that I don't mind waiting a couple more years to see burke finish his plan. I see a lot of potential for the future.

blasted_Sabre 12-30-2012 11:33 AM

Ken Holland (IIRC) said it takes 10 years before a GM can be evaluated on his work. It takes that long for him to have the team created in the way he wants it. Look at how much of a joke Sather and the Rangers were not that long ago. Now they're Stanley Cup contenders.

Raym11 12-30-2012 11:34 AM

3 years more tops after this one to get the ball rolling (make playoffs without fighting for 8th spot, actually be a threat and not a 1st round exit team) then let him go if he fails

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donmega (Post 56925873)
yes, I want burke resigned. We've sucked for so long that I don't mind waiting a couple more years to see burke finish his plan. I see a lot of potential for the future.

We've sucked for so long and you are willing to suck more just to see a fat oaf continue to drive this once noble team off the cliff?

One question:

When does the sucking end?

I mean we clearly aren't tanking because Brian Burke doesn't believe in that (and has traded multiple first round picks for good measure)

We clearly have been trying desperately to make the playoffs every year based on every move he's made (spending to the cap ceiling, trading multiple first round picks) but we've failed each and every time.

How much more failure are people comfortable with ?

Rare Jewel 12-30-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 56926093)
Ken Holland (IIRC) said it takes 10 years before a GM can be evaluated on his work. It takes that long for him to have the team created in the way he wants it. Look at how much of a joke Sather and the Rangers were not that long ago. Now they're Stanley Cup contenders.

Bob Gainey said when asked specifically about the Leafs(while with MTL) was asked back in 2008 by Friedman I think? On how long it's takes to turn around a team and his response was 6 years.

There you have the high end and the low end, And we aren't in that time bracket yet.

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 56925515)
Burke's contract is not up. He has another year. There's no rush.

Exactly ...his five year accelerated rebuild plan is obviously nearing completion and we should be seeing meaningful results in the standings.

All this failure and trading away of key picks, players, and prospects every year was obviously built in just for year 1 to 4.

Year 5 is where the failure ends.

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rare Jewel (Post 56926223)
Bob Gainey said when asked specifically about the Leafs(while with MTL) was asked back in 2008 by Friedman I think? On how long it's takes to turn around a team and his response was 6 years.

There you have the high end and the low end, And we aren't in that time bracket yet.

Brian Burke said it's much shorter than that.

He said he doesn't believe it should take five years and he'll do it sooner...certainly acted upon that idea by promptly sending the highest draft pick the Leafs have ever encountered out the door.

So you actually have a high-mid-low.

hotpaws 12-30-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arik Kristal (Post 56925765)
My mistake. Okay, I remember that now. Fine, so he's made 2 mistakes Still not worthy of his job being in jeopardy thats just silly!!!

He's only made 2 mistakes in your opinion .

I could go make a list of all his bad moves or meaningless signings but in the end it all boils down to is what he's built in his tenure here .

We've finished 2nd/9th/5th last in 3 three full season here and we have a mediocre prospect pool . The team is soft and lacks a num 1 C/D/G to build around .

Burke misjudged the team when he first arrived here and it set the rebuild back . He thought he could come here and do a quickie retool and build a cup contenteder . Now that his original retool crashed and burned he running around yapping about our youth , unforntunatly his youth is mediocre overall .

People can spin and defend his record all they want but i've never understood why . I don't know if they actually believe he's doing a god job or they simply don't want to admit he's wasted 4 years .

One thing i do know is Burke isn't the show . The game on the ice is the attraction and either the team starts to perform better or he gets repalced .

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpaws (Post 56926291)
He's only made 2 mistakes in your opinion .

I could go make a list of all his bad moves or meaningless signings but in the end it all boils down to is what he's built in his tenure here .

We've finished 2nd/9th/5th last in 3 three full season here and we have a mediocre prospect pool . The team is soft and lacks a num 1 C/D/G to build around .

Burke misjudged the team when he first arrived here and it set the rebuild back . He thought he could come here and do a quickie retool and build a cup contenteder . Now that his original retool crashed and burned he running around yapping about our youth , unforntunatly his youth is mediocre overall .

People can spin and defend his record all they want but i've never understood why . I don't know if they actually believe he's doing a god job or they simply don't want to admit he's wasted 4 years .

One thing i do know is Burke isn't the show . The game on the ice is the attraction and either the team starts to perform better or he gets repalced .

Yeah I don't think hes looking hard enough either.

I can count three right off the bat he hasn't even mentioned...easy too.

1. Finishing 2nd last (without a first)

2. Finishing 9th last (without a firrst)

3. Finishing 5th last (regression)

hotpaws 12-30-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 56926093)
Ken Holland (IIRC) said it takes 10 years before a GM can be evaluated on his work. It takes that long for him to have the team created in the way he wants it. Look at how much of a joke Sather and the Rangers were not that long ago. Now they're Stanley Cup contenders.

I'm sure JFJ would agree with Holland .

blasted_Sabre 12-30-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpaws (Post 56926331)
I'm sure JFJ would agree with Holland .

JFJ was a rookie GM thrust into a situation he shouldnt have been. He was a marionette GM if there ever was one.

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpaws (Post 56926331)
I'm sure JFJ would agree with Holland .

JFJ pulled the cardinal sin apparently...coming close to the playoffs.

Thank God Burke hasn't done that! Man arent we lucky as fans.

I hated the hell out of him back then but man...almost miss him....anything better than this circus show.

blasted_Sabre 12-30-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber0104 (Post 56926385)
JFJ pulled the cardinal sin apparently...coming close to the playoffs.

Thank God Burke hasn't done that! Man arent we lucky as fans.

I hated the hell out of him back then but man...almost miss him....anything better than this circus show.

JFJ made his share of awful moves.

Rask for Raycroft is an utter disaster with absolutely zero benfit for our team. How much better would we look if we traded up and selected Couture instead of trading our pick for Toskala?

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 56926431)
JFJ made his share of awful moves.

Rask for Raycroft is an utter disaster with absolutely zero benfit for our team. How much better would we look if we traded up and selected Couture instead of trading our pick for Toskala?

Rask last time I checked hasnt led Boston anywhere.

The Leafs traded Toskala for the pick that became Lars Eller..not Couture who was picked before. The only reason you say its bad is because you have hindsight.

Can I say I think Burke should be fired because he shouldve traded up one spot from Kadri to pick OEL?

Wouldn't be fair. Hindsight.


Fact is JFJ had a way better record than Burke in his time here, and a better scouting record too. None of Burkes picks have made the NHL. Many of JFJs have. And it is sad Im defending him...look at me...but really only to benchmark how worse Burke has been,

hotpaws 12-30-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bomber0104 (Post 56926385)
JFJ pulled the cardinal sin apparently...coming close to the playoffs.

Thank God Burke hasn't done that! Man arent we lucky as fans.

I hated the hell out of him back then but man...almost miss him....anything better than this circus show.

The best thing about this off season was that Burke was muzzled by his higher ups . I don't know how much more of the guys constant blabber i could have taken .

Bomber0104 12-30-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotpaws (Post 56926481)
The best thing about this off season was that Burke was muzzled by his higher ups . I don't know how much more of the guys constant blabber i could have taken .

Those full page apology ads running in the cities newpapers should have come out of Burke's salary

Isn't Teachers or Tannenbaum's fault the team is terrible.

Only fault of there's is hiring him.

I'm sure thats the next newspaper ad:

"We're sorry we hired Burke...please renew your seats now."

ULF_55 12-30-2012 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 56925515)
Burke's contract is not up. He has another year. There's no rush.

Exactly, he said it would take less than 5 years and he is being given 6.

According to his standard he already has an extra year.


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