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-   -   Loui Eriksson Vs Patrick Marleau (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1314219)

megajake 12-31-2012 09:18 PM

Loui Eriksson Vs Patrick Marleau
 
Who?1 season

WTFetus 12-31-2012 09:30 PM

Can't go wrong with either, but I picked Marleau. Close offensively, but Marleau is faster and better defensively.

DuckEatinShark 12-31-2012 09:35 PM

Both players are very good offensively
Both players are exceptional defensively

Marleau is bigger and faster but Eriksson brings it every game.

Can't go wrong with either, so I'll be a homer and vote Marleau.:)

OzzyFan 12-31-2012 10:12 PM

For 1 season, I'll take the guy with 40goal potential: Marleau.

Cristiano Ronaldo 12-31-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 56977625)
Can't go wrong with either, but I picked Marleau. Close offensively, but Marleau is faster and better defensively.

Marleau is not better defensively that Eriksson.

bp spec 12-31-2012 10:48 PM

Eriksson. But it's more or less a toss up.

WTFetus 12-31-2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAlex916 (Post 56978227)
Marleau is not better defensively that Eriksson.

One goes against top competition every season and excels. The other doesn't.

Cristiano Ronaldo 12-31-2012 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 56978737)
One goes against top competition every season and excels. The other doesn't.

:huh: They play in the same division. I don't understand your argument.

WTFetus 12-31-2012 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAlex916 (Post 56978845)
:huh: They play in the same division. I don't understand your argument.

Top competition meaning the other team's best lines night-in and night-out. Eriksson is definitely no slouch defensively, but he isn't better than Marleau. Marleau faces the other team's top lines, whereas over the years, players like Burish, Ott, Dvorak, Morrow, and Fiddler have been facing the other team's top lines for Dallas.

Cristiano Ronaldo 12-31-2012 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 56978921)
Top competition meaning the other team's best lines night-in and night-out. Eriksson is definitely no slouch defensively, but he isn't better than Marleau. Marleau faces the other team's top lines, whereas over the years, players like Burish, Ott, Dvorak, Morrow, and Fiddler have been facing the other team's top lines for Dallas.

Really? You don't have much knowledge of the Stars obviously.

Loui Eriksson often does play against the other team's top line.

kingsboy11 12-31-2012 11:23 PM

I don't like playing against either. So I guess I'll go with Marleau. Can't go wrong with either of them.

hairylikebear 12-31-2012 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 56978921)
Top competition meaning the other team's best lines night-in and night-out. Eriksson is definitely no slouch defensively, but he isn't better than Marleau. Marleau faces the other team's top lines, whereas over the years, players like Burish, Ott, Dvorak, Morrow, and Fiddler have been facing the other team's top lines for Dallas.

Marleau's speed makes him better defensively at 5 on 5, but Eriksson's elite anticipation makes him a force on the penalty kill. Saying Marleau is definitively better defensively because of even strength line matchups is a lot like saying Eriksson is better offensively because he had more assists last season. It conveniently ignores the greatest strength of the player that isn't on your favorite team.

WTFetus 12-31-2012 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAlex916 (Post 56979029)
Really? You don't have much knowledge of the Stars obviously.

Loui Eriksson often does play against the other team's top line.

Mix of eyes and advanced stats. Corsi rel Qoc is a very good indicator of competition quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairylikebear (Post 56979071)
Marleau's speed makes him better defensively at 5 on 5, but Eriksson's elite anticipation makes him a force on the penalty kill. Saying Marleau is definitively better defensively because of even strength line matchups is a lot like saying Eriksson is better offensively because he had more assists last season. It conveniently ignores the greatest strength of the player that isn't on your favorite team.

Marleau is consistently one of the Sharks best PKers every season as well. Erikson has better anticipation, but Marleau has size along the boards and is one of the fastest forwards in the league.

But yes, my initial argument was only 5 on 5 since that's what the players play at for the majority of the game. 16+ minutes of ES vs ~2 minutes of PK time at most. ES play should hold more weight.

hairylikebear 12-31-2012 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 56979099)
Marleau is consistently one of the Sharks best PKers every season as well. Erikson has better anticipation, but Marleau has size along the boards and is one of the fastest forwards in the league.

But yes, my initial argument was only 5 on 5 since that's what the players play at for the majority of the game. 16+ minutes of ES vs ~2 minutes of PK time at most.

Similarly, Eriksson is hardly a one-trick pony in that regard. His coach may choose to employ a different line-matching strategy, something over which Eriksson has little control, but he does exceptionally well at defending the less talented players that he does match up against. It's also worth noting that Marleau plays with two other respectable two-way forwards in Havlat and Clowe, whereas Eriksson often had to cover for the defensive oversights of his line-mates, Ribeiro and Morrow.

Just some things to consider when you're analyzing those advanced stats.

WTFetus 12-31-2012 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairylikebear (Post 56979197)
Similarly, Eriksson is hardly a one-trick pony in that regard. His coach may choose to employ a different line-matching strategy, something over which Eriksson has little control, but he does exceptionally well at defending the less talented players that he does match up against. It's also worth noting that Marleau plays with two other respectable two-way forwards in Havlat and Clowe, whereas Eriksson often had to cover for the defensive oversights of his line-mates, Ribeiro and Morrow..

I wouldn't call Morrow or Ribeiro poor defensively either. In Morrow's case, he faced top competition the season before last.
I'll give you Havlat (though Marleau's been facing top competition for years with the likes of Bernier, Setoguchi, etc), but Clowe is beyond horrible defensively. Really, Clowe is terrible defensively.

And yeah, I realize match-ups are up to the coaches (Marleau played on the shut-down line with Wilson, now Todd McLellan just does power vs power). Eriksson isn't bad defensively, I'm just saying Marleau goes up against top competition night-in and night-out and still puts up similar offensive numbers to Eriksson. Therefore, I'd give the edge to Marleau. Eriksson could very well be great defensively against top lines as well, but we won't know until he does it.

hairylikebear 12-31-2012 11:44 PM

Morrow was horrendous defensively last season. Sure, he was great in his prime, perhaps even the best backchecker in the entire league, but that was several back injuries ago. He's not that player any more. Any Stars fan will tell you that. Ribeiro is good defensively when he focuses on it, but he's prone to turning the puck over and directing his attention to the rafters instead of skating back to help his team.

I didn't realize Clowe was so bad defensively. He always seems to play a tight game against the Stars, but I guess every modern Shark does. (I say modern because Campbell used to be good for a couple of free goals every game for the Stars.)

WTFetus 12-31-2012 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairylikebear (Post 56979293)
Morrow was horrendous defensively last season. Sure, he was great in his prime, perhaps even the best backchecker in the entire league, but that was several back injuries ago. He's not that player any more.

Yeah, I was referring to Morrow from season's past, not the most recent ones. But Eriksson didn't play much with Morrow last season did he? I thought his linemates were primarily a mix of Ryder, Benn, Ribeiro, and Ott.

hairylikebear 12-31-2012 11:54 PM

Heh I forgot all about the Eriksson - Ribeiro - Ryder line. Last season was a really long time ago..

Yeah that was definitely the most common ES line including Eriksson, but Ryder isn't particularly strong at defending either. Benn and Eriksson took a few shifts together here or there, I think they were penciled in together for a couple of games last season, but when they were paired together, they did skate with the other teams' top lines and usually dominated possession while they were at it.

LatvianTwist 01-01-2013 01:27 AM

Eriksson and Marleau are a wash for one season.

I would sure as hell not trade Eriksson for Marleau. And if it weren't for the fact that Marleau's been with San Jose his whole career, I'd be surprised if they'd turn down a straight up offer. But the OP didn't ask for value.

Vankiller Whale 01-01-2013 01:29 AM

Marleau, but it's really, really close. Going forward it's easily Eriksson.

Benny FTW 01-01-2013 01:52 AM

Eriksson because i couldn't decide.

Phion Keneuf 01-01-2013 01:55 AM

Eriksson, he's one of my favourite players

InjuredChoker 01-01-2013 05:22 AM

Eriksson, think he's ahead at this point.

pld459666 01-01-2013 08:40 AM

Chose Marleau. Very good poll btw.

Mattb124 01-01-2013 03:58 PM

They are similar players in many respects: very good offensively, solid defensively/PK, durable, good size (although Marleau has 25# on Loui). I picked Marleau based on his elite speed, goal scoring ability and ability to play center (and not sure if Loui plays C at all, but Marleau is a natural center playing wing).


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