HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   International Tournaments (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4)
-   -   German Coaching (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1314687)

Herman the German 01-02-2013 08:44 AM

German Coaching
 
U-20 German Coaching? 12 years yoyo effect,,time for a change?

BalticWarrior 01-02-2013 08:47 AM

You complain about german coaching? Try latvian coaching or kind-of-not really latvian coaching cause our coach isn`t really latvian hes russian ,actually, with all that old school soviet hockey that comes with it.

FinRuutu 01-02-2013 08:51 AM

Try Finnish coach Rindell, who shuffles the lines for every game and got best Finnish WJC team all the way to the relegation round. :laugh:

BalticWarrior 01-02-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinRuutu (Post 57008849)
Try Finnish coach Rindell, who shuffles the lines for every line and got best Finnish WJC team all the way to the relegation round. :laugh:

So thats where our Tambijevs got the idea from.. :sarcasm:

FinRuutu 01-02-2013 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 57008883)
So thats where our Tambijevs got the idea from.. :sarcasm:

And it supposed to be "for every game". :P glad you got the I dea. But I'd gladly try Tambijevs over Rindell :laugh:

slovakiasnextone 01-02-2013 11:13 AM

So basically this is the official "complain about your coach for relegation round teams" thread? :D :D

ByeBye 01-02-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman the German (Post 57008707)
U-20 German Coaching? 12 years yoyo effect,,time for a change?

What exactly is your problem with Höfner and why does this thread pop up today?

Burgs 01-02-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuernberger (Post 57014421)
What exactly is your problem with Höfner and why does this thread pop up today?

Yeah he should have waited until the inevitable loss to Latvia in the final game, followed by our traditional relegation. ;)

But seriously, I know Höfner doesn't have much to work with here but he has failed to keep the team in the top group every time he's had the chance. It's been a continous cycle of relegation and promotion and relegation again for 10 years or so. Zero progress made. Usually Germany has one surprisingly good underdog performance early in the tournament only to then fold like a cheap tent and embarrass themselves with horrible relegation round games. It's happened often enough to allow blaming the coach by now.

But since nobody outside a few hockey geeks cares about junior hockey in Germany, nobody else seems to want this thankless job, and he's buddies with the rest of the Bavarian Mafia that is the German hockey federation, he'll have the coaching job as long as he wants it.

ByeBye 01-02-2013 03:29 PM

Alright, let's bring on the candidates then! :handclap:

GermanNuck 01-02-2013 04:49 PM

Hans Zach :sarcasm:

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/eishock...s-zach-514.jpg

fly4apuckguy 01-02-2013 04:54 PM

Isn't it tough to win the Division I tourney with one team last year, and then get put into this pool this year? I would say that is perhaps the most difficult aspect of coaching these teams. It has to be nearly impossible to prepare when the team you won with against lesser competition is now gone and you are left with new personnel against the difficult teams.

Statsy 01-02-2013 05:05 PM

If he has in fact been the coach for this whole time, I would think it might be time to bring in somebody new. Possibly from another country that is one of the hockey powers. For example, Sean Simpson has done wonders for the Swiss program. This year he has taught them how to lose in extra time situations. :laugh:

GermanNuck 01-02-2013 05:22 PM

Well we do have some good coaches in Germany. Ralph Krueger who is right now not coaching the Oilers but actually he would be ;)

Or Uwe Krupp, coach of my beloved sharks.
But the thing with hockey and basically all sports in Germany is, that 99% of the people don't care about junior tournaments.
They want superb players on the mens level, but they don't care about where they come from. So it's hard to find a good coach because they don't want to "waste" their talent on something so unpopular.

That being said, I think that we can ice a decent roster in the next few years..
Rieder, Kühnhackl, Abeltshauser, Noebels, Holzer, Draitsaitl, Kahun combined with Ehrhoff, Seidenberg, Goc, Greiss and a few DEL players should be competitive, still far away from being a medal contender.

EDIT: Simpson would be a huge improvement. Right now I would love to lose in OT! ;)

LightningStrikes 01-02-2013 05:49 PM

As a German I think the problem lies deeper than just the coaching staff. It's really too bad. Just look at the Swiss. Why aren't we where they are?

Herman the German 01-02-2013 06:01 PM

Not enough money is invested in the youth programs? Why do talented players leave Germany and play in North America? Germany has a bad direction when it comes to the youth programs. It starts off at the fishes head and it stinks! The coaching staff, for th U-20, is not too far from the head. Time for a change, after 12 years. The media in Canada was questioning the coaching tactics? They understand hockey.

tfong 01-02-2013 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningStrikes (Post 57026763)
As a German I think the problem lies deeper than just the coaching staff. It's really too bad. Just look at the Swiss. Why aren't we where they are?

It's something in the cheese there..... :)

To be fair though swiss team play had been vastly underrated the last few years with the occasional star player like sven or Nino. I like how their program is shaping up.

Herman the German 01-02-2013 06:05 PM

Your federation invests money in the youth program, where our federation invests money in Pond Hockey?

ByeBye 01-03-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman the German (Post 57027153)
The coaching staff, for th U-20, is not too far from the head. Time for a change, after 12 years. The media in Canada was questioning the coaching tactics? They understand hockey.

Again, what is the nature of your problem with the coaching staff? What were those wrong tactics?

And what are realistic candidates for the coaching job? Sean Simpson? Yeah sure, he'd be absolutely THRILLED to coach the German U20. :laugh:

Also, I'd maybe just wait if we can pull off the biggest feat in recent German junior hockey history and stay in the top division tomorrow before I call for the coach's head. Does not make too much sense to dismiss the guy behind the bench if we finally manage to stay up there.

Herman the German 01-03-2013 05:37 PM

Tsn reporters, questioned the fact, the coaching staff against Canada, sent a negative signal by starting the back up goalie, the next day, the comment from the reporters from Tsn said the German team played to passive. Tactic? They haven't one,,everyone talked about it in the media. Coaches get fired for not reaching or achieving goals, time for a change,,,12 years of yoyo is enough. I am sure that someone is there who would be pleased to take that raw German work ethic and produce a winning way.

LiveeviL 01-03-2013 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningStrikes (Post 57026763)
As a German I think the problem lies deeper than just the coaching staff. It's really too bad. Just look at the Swiss. Why aren't we where they are?

And really, Swiss with its league should do better than they do. Not much of a comfort though.

ByeBye 01-04-2013 06:16 AM

Okay, so now ******* Höfner, right? :sarcasm:



Quote:

Originally Posted by Herman the German (Post 57077745)
Tsn reporters, questioned the fact, the coaching staff against Canada, sent a negative signal by starting the back up goalie, the next day, the comment from the reporters from Tsn said the German team played to passive. Tactic? They haven't one,,everyone talked about it in the media. Coaches get fired for not reaching or achieving goals, time for a change,,,12 years of yoyo is enough. I am sure that someone is there who would be pleased to take that raw German work ethic and produce a winning way.

Starting Trautmann against Canada was perfectly reasonable, no reason to throw Cüpper in front of the bus all the time. The next day they played against team USA and they were tired from the day before. If you're tired against the Americans, it's going to be ugly.
What kind of game yould you have them play against those superior teams?
They played well overall, got the points when it counted and stayed in the top division. Goal achieved.

"Take that raw German work ethic and produce a winning way"? How long do you follow hockey? A year? The German team will not be a winner anytime soon. Maybe in the next century or the century after that one.

I'm not a fan of Höfner or anything but this discussion at this point of time is just :facepalm:

Maverick41 01-04-2013 07:58 AM

I think it would be time to make a coaching change, but only if they can really find a great replacement for Höfner. That however is very unlikely.
I don't think Höfner is actually bad (it's not like he has a ton of higly skilled players at his disposal), but I do believe that after 12 years they could use some fresh ideas.

As far as Switzerland is concerned, there is no chance whatsoever that we will catch up with them, probably ever.
First of all they have a concept for the development of young players, and they can put the money into it as well.
The DEB does not have the necessary structure, personell or resources to implement a system that would even remotely resemble the Swiss one.

PanniniClaus 01-04-2013 11:24 AM

I can tell you that having viewed Hofner's charges this time as opposed to seeing them live in Halifax in 2003 - he definitely was changing his style to suit his players.

I don't understand the passive talk from the commentators. The German's actually got in trouble when they were trying to push the play, have the d step up in the NZ or when they tried to do too much with the puck.

In Halifax Hofner had a decent team and they played a very strict 1-4/ No forecheck and they set up very shallow - 1st man pressure at the blue and then had four back in the NZ.

It was painful to watch but they kept games close for the most part. 4-1 loss to Canada, 4-0 to Finland and 3-0 to the Czechs. Patzold stole the show at times too.

I think Hofner is as good as you will find and as someone else said - who is better and wants that job?

ficohok* 01-05-2013 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick41 (Post 57092649)

As far as Switzerland is concerned, there is no chance whatsoever that we will catch up with them, probably ever.
First of all they have a concept for the development of young players, and they can put the money into it as well.
The DEB does not have the necessary structure, personell or resources to implement a system that would even remotely resemble the Swiss one.

Interesting, but when you look back 10-12 years Germans have had more NHL-ers than Swiss. Swiss only had goalie duo (Aebisher - Gerber) and Streit, while Germans had and still have, Seidenberg, Erhoff, Sturm, Goc, Greiss, Hecht, Krupp (played till 2002.).

Maverick41 01-05-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CroHabitant (Post 57126497)
Interesting, but when you look back 10-12 years Germans have had more NHL-ers than Swiss. Swiss only had goalie duo (Aebisher - Gerber) and Streit, while Germans had and still have, Seidenberg, Erhoff, Sturm, Goc, Greiss, Hecht, Krupp (played till 2002.).

But that is just it. Since then, as I understand, there have been som major changes in Swiss hockey, and the quality of their homegrown players has improved quite a lot, not just in terms of high end talent like Niederreiter or Bärtschi, but more importantly when it comes to depth. The overall quality seems to have gotten so much better, and with the more recent changes and investments in hockey this trend is likely to continue.

I believe the Swiss are only now starting to reap the rewards of their work and the gap will only get bigger especially at junior level unless the German hockey federation does something to improve the situation here.

So far we can count ourselves lucky that there are still a lot of dedicated people working for little to no money at the very small local clubs in the few areas of Germany where hockey is actually popular. Because they get these kids started and teach them the basics. Furthermore the improvements we have seen in recent years can also be attributed to the few DEL teams that can actually afford to put money in their youth programs and again the dedicated work done in such traditional hockey towns like Landshut, Bad Tölz, Füssen or Kaufbeuren, who do not have teams at DEL level, but constantly produce young players for DEL team, the national team and even NHL prospects.

Now that I just typed all that I realise that it is mostly off topic, but since I don't want that time I put into it, to be a total waste I'm gonna post it anyway. Sorry about that. ;)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:06 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.