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DEVILS ALL THE WAY* 01-03-2013 01:20 PM

The New Jersey Devils Defense
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by onefatsurfer (Post 57067747)
what we really need is another PMD.

Ah yes, the "PMD" bashing comes out yet again :laugh:

It's pretty surprising that we went all the way to the finals when we got more production from our blueline... Who would've ever taught :sarcasm:

The addition of Zidlicky and the breakout playoffs Sal gave us had little to no effect as to why we went all the way to the finals.

We should've kept White and paired him with Volchenkov, that way we would've went 82-0 while sweaping everyone in our path.

onefatsurfer 01-03-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY (Post 57068175)
Ah yes, the "PMD" bashing comes out yet again :laugh:

It's pretty surprising that we went all the way to the finals when we got more production from our blueline... Who would've ever taught :sarcasm:

The addition of Zidlicky and the breakout playoffs Sal gave us had little to no effect as to why we went all the way to the finals.

We should've kept White and paired him with Volchenkov, that way we would've went 82-0 while sweaping everyone in our path.

I agreed with you on us needing more offense from the blueline. Zidlicky has worked out great thus far. I'm busting your chops, man. :laugh:

I do think that us buying out volch is a bad move unless there is someone we're actively targeting to replace him.. And I don't see who that person would be, so I'm against buying out Volch.

CerebralGenesis 01-03-2013 01:25 PM

Well we have this season, maybe, to see what young talent we have brewing. Salvador's playoff run was very unexpected. His checking balance thanks him.

Classic Devil 01-03-2013 01:27 PM

The New Jersey Devils Defense
 
Talk about puck moving defenseman and stay at home defenseman and Zidlicky and Volchenkov here.

onefatsurfer 01-03-2013 01:29 PM

lol.

CerebralGenesis 01-03-2013 01:37 PM

nice

MartyOwns 01-03-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classic Devil (Post 57068427)
Talk about puck moving defenseman and stay at home defenseman and Zidlicky and Volchenkov here.

grenade handlers here as well?

Bleedred 01-03-2013 01:51 PM

If Volchenkov has a season not so good I can see him being bought out. Depends what happens with the cap numbers. Zajac, and Clarkson are a hell of a lot more important to our team than a defensemen with the offensive capability's of White, and Dano at $4 million+ a year, and I think Lou knows this right now.

As I've said we NEED more scoring from our blueline. Doesn't matter who. If 6 of our defensemen could score 3 goals in a 48 game season that would be almost double our pace last year. If a couple guys get 5 goals to compensate, and the others get 1 or 2 that's fine too. Tallinder has a good shot, but last year was another Dano and didn't score a goal in half a season after scoring 5 in 10/11. We're constantly one of the lowest scoring defenses in the league.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* 01-03-2013 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartyOwns (Post 57069209)
grenade handlers here as well?

Aren't we talking about Volchenkov for the past 4 pages... he'd probably blow himself up or at least lose a arm if he tried throwing it away from danger.

Bleedred 01-03-2013 02:05 PM

Getting more goals from our defense is something we legitimately need. It can help replace a lot of scoring. Teams like the Isles, and other low scoring teams outscored our defense last year. The CBJ got twice as many goals from their defense as we did last year.

It would replace a lot of scoring. It would probably score as much as Poni if we doubled the goal output from our defense. Larsson, and Zidlicky are the only ones with a lot of potential. Fayne gets some weird floaters once in a while, Greene hasn't done much as far as goals when not on the PP.

We don't need to change the personnel. Just work to get more production out of them. I think a guy like Tallinder is capable of more than a goal, and Greene can get a handful.

Tretyak 20 01-03-2013 02:07 PM

Keeping Volchenkov makes sense. Just look at all the young mobile D's we'll have coming into the lineup in the next few seasons. Not just Larsson and Fayne, but any of Urbom, Gelinas, Burlon, Severson and Scarlett. We'll have plenty of guys who are more mobile than Volch, so keeping him around means we at least have one stay-at-home type D.

Classic Devil 01-03-2013 02:11 PM

The most important thing Volchenkov brings is his physicality. His hitting is why he got a $4M contract instead of a $3M contract in UFA. I do think he's an important asset, but what it comes down to is if he isn't providing a physical element - an intimidation element - to the blue line, he isn't living up to his contract.

(His physicality and its contractual value is why DATW constantly believes he's not worth what he's getting paid, because a great physical game is worth approximately the same as a great offensive game for a defenseman on the UFA market.)

I'm okay with his contract, if he's bringing both solid defense and terrific physicality. Even in the absence of a good puck-moving game. You need at least one guy on a lineup who forwards say "I'd really rather not get hit by that guy."

As I've posted many times before, my ideal defense:

(1) Power-play Quarterback (Zidlicky, Rafalski, Niedermayer)
(2) All-round mobile defenseman (Tallinder, Greene, Niedermayer, Stevens, Albelin, Fayne etc.)
(3) All-round mobile defenseman
(4) All-round mobile defenseman
(5) Shutdown Defenseman (Salvador, Volchenkov, Stevens, White, Daneyko, Niedermayer)
(6) Physical Defenseman (Volchenkov, Stevens)
(7) Reserve Defenseman (Just be reliable, but preferably with a physical game)

You'll note that a guy like Stevens can do just about any of the roles above. That's why he's Scott Stevens.

Bleedred 01-03-2013 02:12 PM

Volchenkov's contract could look really bad. It doesn't yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it looked bad in 2 years when it will have 2 years left.

I could easily see us not buying him out during the amnesty period, but instead buying him out two years down the road from now or in the last year of his contract.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* 01-03-2013 02:13 PM

SAH d-men and wingers are the easiest thing to get around the deadline. What'll cost you a arm and a leg are blueliners that can create offense and centers.

Again, Volchenkov isn't worthless, he's just not worth what he's making. If he was making half of what he's making, I wouldn't say a peep about his play but unfortunatly, that's not the case.

Cowbell232 01-03-2013 02:14 PM

I don't understand judging a player almost exclusively based on their salary... I mean, you can't do anything about it, why harp on it? Just doesn't make sense to me as a fan I guess.

Oroku Saki* 01-03-2013 02:14 PM

The problem is he needs to stay healthy. There was a chunk of last season where he was our best defenseman and getting involved in the offense. He's not crippling the team and he can still bring the pain. No reason to buy him out. Re-signing Salvador to a 3 year contract was a mistake imo.

Classic Devil 01-03-2013 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY (Post 57070357)
SAH d-men and wingers are the easiest thing to get around the deadline. What'll cost you a arm and a leg are blueliners that can create offense and centers.

Again, Volchenkov isn't worthless, he's just not worth what he's making. If he was making half of what he's making, I wouldn't say a peep about his play but unfortunatly, that's not the case.

Stay-at-home defensemen with Volchenkov's elite physical game (which is what we paid for, don't think it's not) are most certainly not easy to come by at the deadline.

Bleedred 01-03-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowbell232 (Post 57070415)
I don't understand judging a player almost exclusively based on their salary... I mean, you can't do anything about it, why harp on it? Just doesn't make sense to me as a fan I guess.

I'm afraid we could run into problems with the cap because of a contract like that. Especially if they lower the cap as much as they say they wanna. I'm afraid it will keep us from being able to sign other players. Not other defensemen, but other forwards. And yes I'm not a fan of the Salvador contract I either. I wanted him back, but would have preferred him for $2-$2.5 million if it was for 3 years. I would also have not much complaints if Volchenkov was getting a million less.

Oroku Saki* 01-03-2013 02:21 PM

We have to remember Marty doesn't like defenseman blocking shots. That is also one of Volchenkov's bright spots.

DEVILS ALL THE WAY* 01-03-2013 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Classic Devil (Post 57070311)
The most important thing Volchenkov brings is his physicality. His hitting is why he got a $4M contract instead of a $3M contract in UFA. I do think he's an important asset, but what it comes down to is if he isn't providing a physical element - an intimidation element - to the blue line, he isn't living up to his contract.

(His physicality and its contractual value is why DATW constantly believes he's not worth what he's getting paid, because a great physical game is worth approximately the same as a great offensive game for a defenseman on the UFA market.)

I'm okay with his contract, if he's bringing both solid defense and terrific physicality. Even in the absence of a good puck-moving game. You need at least one guy on a lineup who forwards say "I'd really rather not get hit by that guy."

I agree with your post, 100%... outside of his contract. I do agree that we need a "bruiser", just not at that price. The same can be said for the goons Lou likes to pick up year after year only to buy them out 12 months later.

I just don't see the need to "overpay" for a SAH d-men who's skating isn't all that great. The game has changed, it's faster so you need guys that will keep up with the pace of top line players and when you try to land booming hits 9 times out of 10, you'll either miss or take a penalty cause it's all about timing and if you can't keep up, you're out of position more often then not. How many penalties did he take because he wanted to crush someone but the opposing player either dodged his hit or simply outskated him?

Let's forget about his game for a second and focus on what DeBoer wants as a system. He's trying to install a puck possession game, wich is the total opposite of what Lemaire was doing. Jacques made Mike Mottau look like a real legit NHL player by implementing a "zone" defense and that's fine but he isn't here anymore and Pete doesn't want to play that way. He wants our blueline to get involved way more then our previous coaches but unfortunatly, that style doesn't suit everyone. We saw the benefits of adding someone like Zidlicky and his icetime went accordingly.

Playing with 5 players in the offensive zone isn't a plus, it's something that should happen on every shift. Forwards were hesitant to pass the puck to the point cause they knew a turnover was bound to happen a couple of seconds after that and the last thing you want as a forward is to chase the puck for your entire shift instead of creating offense. You tire your opponent when you have control of the puck and you don't spend as much energy running all over the place trying to get it back... so it's a double bonus if you will.

There's a balance between skill and muscle that every team needs in order to be effective... it's just that you have to pay accordingly. Most of the high priced blueliners, if not all of them, are all offensively gifted d-men... not SAH d-men.

Anyways... back to work ;)

manilaNJ 01-03-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleedred (Post 57070627)
I'm afraid we could run into problems with the cap because of a contract like that. Especially if they lower the cap as much as they say they wanna. I'm afraid it will keep us from being able to sign other players. Not other defensemen, but other forwards. And yes I'm not a fan of the Salvador contract I either. I wanted him back, but would have preferred him for $2-$2.5 million if it was for 3 years. I would also have not much complaints if Volchenkov was getting a million less.

There is no sense in panicking about the cap. We don't know what it will be and how long it will be before the cap comes back up again.
It's going to be 30 teams running around like chickens without heads once we get into the swing of things.

We are not even close to the worst off in cap dollars. Things will adjust accordingly, and we have more breathing room than most (and one of the most infuriatingly patient GMs in all of pro sports)

We are a team that's actually going to benefit from the cap coming down, believe it or not.
Consider that Carter, Bernier and now Butler were all picked off of waivers prior to this season. And that's without 2/3 of the league already busting through the proposed ceiling.

Bleedred 01-03-2013 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manilaNJ (Post 57070979)
There is no sense in panicking about the cap. We don't know what it will be and how long it will be before the cap comes back up again.
It's going to be 30 teams running around like chickens without heads once we get into the swing of things.

We are not even close to the worst off in cap dollars. Things will adjust accordingly, and we have more breathing room than most (and one of the most infuriatingly patient GMs in all of pro sports)

We are a team that's actually going to benefit from the cap coming down, believe it or not.
Consider that Carter, Bernier and now Butler were all picked off of waivers prior to this season. And that's without 2/3 of the league already busting through the proposed ceiling.

Yeah we keep talking about this, and I hope so. I'm more worried about Zajac, and Clarkson. And then Patty with that ass Walsh who represents him. Do we have to pay him more than we did last contract? And when they go to UFA what kind of offers they will get.

If it makes Zajac worth $4.5-$5 million, and Clarkson only worth $3.5 I guess I'm fine with it. I still think they'll settle at $63-$65 million.

manilaNJ 01-03-2013 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleedred (Post 57071191)
Yeah we keep talking about this, and I hope so. I'm more worried about Zajac, and Clarkson. And then Patty with that ass Walsh who represents him. Do we have to pay him more than we did last contract? And when they go to UFA what kind of offers they will get.

If it makes Zajac worth $4.5-$5 million, and Clarkson only worth $3.5 I guess I'm fine with it. I still think they'll settle at $63-$65 million.

Depends if the final CBA allows teams to sign their FAs for longer terms than incoming FAs. We'd have that leverage for all of them.

And no, a 36 year old, no matter how talented, is not going to make more than his previous contracts. Don't forget that Elias said that FA was one of the worst days of his career. Don't think he wants that again.

Personally, I think you're going to see a lot of yo-yo'ing of FAs during the summer. Not just solely with the Devils.
You'll have a lot of players who expect a certain amount and won't get it because of lowered caps, will peruse around the league and see that NO ONE will pay them amount only to go back to their former team and get the better deal.

Bleedred 01-03-2013 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manilaNJ (Post 57071451)
Depends if the final CBA allows teams to sign their FAs for longer terms than incoming FAs. We'd have that leverage for all of them.

And no, a 36 year old, no matter how talented, is not going to make more than his previous contracts. Don't forget that Elias said that FA was one of the worst days of his career. Don't think he wants that again.

Personally, I think you're going to see a lot of yo-yo'ing of FAs during the summer. Not just solely with the Devils.
You'll have a lot of players who expect a certain amount and won't get it because of lowered caps, will peruse around the league and see that NO ONE will pay them amount only to go back to their former team and get the better deal.

Hope Patty is re signed before UFA. I hope Lou don't make a mess like with Marty last year, but I can easily see it happening, and having to wait on Zajac like we did with Parise last year.

Salvador just got more than last contract, and he's 36, but I realize that's a different circumstance. I also have a theory he may have settled for less had he not been on the market.

Hopefully Patty takes a paycut. I think he will. Not a massive one, but a slight one like Marty did. Same with Zubrus. He should take a cut as well or I'd be fine parting with him, and trying to sign Poni.

Saugus 01-03-2013 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volchenkov28 (Post 57070649)
We have to remember Marty doesn't like defenseman blocking shots. That is also one of Volchenkov's bright spots.

Too bad Marty ain't in charge no more for too much longer. Future goalies might like it just fine.


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