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-   -   Value of: Scott Harrington (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1316199)

Will Hunting 01-05-2013 06:03 AM

Scott Harrington
 
London Knights captain. He seems to be very underrated, but he was clearly the best D-man for Canada on WJC. The only one who actually played some real defense. He also made a great offensive play at that 5-5 goal vs Russia and had a best +/- stats among defensemen. TOP 3 for Team Canada announced: Harrington, RNH, Scheifele.

I just wonder how much value this kid has. Just theoretically, I doubt that the Pens are trading him, they need good defense badly.

Aceonfire 01-05-2013 06:09 AM

This kid will be Martin's replacement and that is a very good thing. It would take a package deal that brings in a #1 D to get Pittsburgh to even consider moving him.

#66 01-05-2013 06:17 AM

He's a pretty unique player. A lot of defensive defensemen can't move the puck like him. I don't ever think he'll be a big stat guy but he's a good transitional player. He kind of plays like Rod Langway.

bruinsfan46 01-05-2013 06:24 AM

Really struggled for the first half of the Bronze Medal game and I was kinda confused by the Player of the Game award in the semis as he wasn't good that game either (although nobody was). Really he should be included with everybody else for the Canadian defence struggles, he can do better. Was far from the worst but not nearly as steady as some people seem to think. The Penguins aren't gonna get enough for him to make it worth trading. His lack of physical tools provide question marks at the NHL level. Solid prospect who you will get some idea of his NHL future next year as he turns pro. Right now would barely make a dent in a package for a number one guy and I agree with Iceonfire that it would require something like that for him to be moved right now. If you want a true value, he was a late second rounder in 2011, I would say he's moved himself up to the value of an early second rounder with his play and development since then. Don't think flipping him for another second would be that thrilling of an idea.

Will Hunting 01-05-2013 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 (Post 57126179)
Really struggled for the first half of the Bronze Medal game and I was kinda confused by the Player of the Game award in the semis as he wasn't good that game either (although nobody was). Really he should be included with everybody else for the Canadian defence struggles. Was far from the worst but not nearly as steady as some people seem to think. The Penguins aren't gonna get enough for him to make it worth trading. His lack of physical tools provide question marks at the NHL level. Solid prospect who you will get some idea of his NHL future next year as he turns pro. Right now would barely make a dent in a package for a number one guy and I agree with Iceonfire that it would require something like that for him to be moved right now. If you want a true value, he was a late second rounder in 2011, I would say he's moved himself up to the value of an early second rounder with his play and development since then. Don't think flipping him for another second would be that thrilling of an idea.

He has done probably a bit more than that. He was better than Dougie Hamilton and every other D-men for Canada in WJC, thatīs without a question I think.. Was very good vs SVK, USA (2-1W), RUS (4-1W) and wasnīt a joke like the others were in last two games. Heīs playing steady defense in London as well. Has a great attitude off the ice and his positional game and stick work in D-zone are very solid. Other D-men and forwards in D-zone didnīt help him a lot. He wasnīt perfect but he was definitely doing his best on WJC. Hypothetically: If he would have been a 1st rounder a year ago, I would have absolutely no complaints against it right now.

That said, Pens potentially move him only if heīs a part of package for 1st pair D-man or a 30+ winger. His value should be higher than Despresī when we talk about Pens prospects.

bruinsfan46 01-05-2013 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Hunting (Post 57126485)
He has done probably a bit more than that. He was better than Dougie Hamilton and every other D-men for Canada in WJC, thatīs without a question I think.. Was very good vs SVK, USA (2-1W), RUS (4-1W) and wasnīt a joke like the others were in last two games. Heīs playing steady defense in London as well. Has a great attitude off the ice and his positional game and stick work in D-zone are very solid. Other D-men and forwards in D-zone didnīt help him a lot. He wasnīt perfect but he was definitely doing his best on WJC. Hypothetically: If he would have been a 1st rounder a year ago, I would have absolutely no complaints against it right now.

That said, Pens potentially move him only if heīs a part of package for 1st pair D-man or a 30+ winger. His value should be higher than Despresī when we talk about Pens prospects.

You see that's where we totally disagree, Despres has large size and offense advantages while being pretty good defensively. Plus he's already looked solid in a limited NHL role.

And I'll agree Harrington was the best Canadian defenceman, but they came fourth mostly because the defence was terrible.

Saving Greiss 01-05-2013 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceonfire (Post 57126033)
This kid will be Martin's replacement and that is a very good thing. It would take a package deal that brings in a #1 D to get Pittsburgh to even consider moving him.

Pretty much the only scenario where he would be moved. He's just too valuable to the Pens.

Will Hunting 01-05-2013 07:10 AM

Despres is a disappointment this year in AHL, I have seen him multiple times. He was good with the Pens in a couple of games, but I am not overrating it, because Despres played in a very protected role there. Harrington is much more intelligent in D-zone and his transitional game is at least that good as Despresī. His positional game is also better. Despres is 2 years older and I just value Harrington higher based on what Iīve seen from both guys.

Warm Cookies 01-05-2013 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceonfire (Post 57126033)
It would take a package deal that brings in a #1 D to get Pittsburgh to even consider moving him.

Exactly.

SEALBound 01-05-2013 02:20 PM

With Orpik getting older and having an iffy year, Martin being expensive with an iffy year, the departure of Michalek, and Letang needing a raise...I'm having trouble seeing the benefit of Pittsburgh moving him.

Letang-Despres
Morrow-Harrington
Pouliot/Dumoulin/Maatta/Engo

Those are realistic pairings a couple years in the future depending upon how each develops. I just don't see Pittsburgh moving any of them right now unless its part of a package that brings in a major player like a #1 wing for Crosby or a #1 dman to pair with Letang.

lakai17 01-05-2013 03:28 PM

still can't believe the Pens drafted Pouliot over Trouba.

limite* 01-05-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakai17 (Post 57143599)
still can't believe the Pens drafted Pouliot over Trouba.

Might as well throw in Forsberg and Grigorenko while you're at it.

lakai17 01-05-2013 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by limite (Post 57144487)
Might as well throw in Forsberg and Grigorenko while you're at it.

a lot of offensive potential from Pouliot though, Letang will put him under his wing.

Common Sense 01-05-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakai17 (Post 57144639)
a lot of offensive potential from Pouliot though, Letang will put him under his wing.

We already had Morrow for that role.

limite* 01-05-2013 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakai17 (Post 57144639)
a lot of offensive potential from Pouliot though, Letang will put him under his wing.

There's that word, "potential." It's supposed to make you ignore what you see with your own eyes - like Trouba, Grigorenko and Forsberg being stars in the most competitive hockey tournament for their level of development.

blinkman360 01-05-2013 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakai17 (Post 57143599)
still can't believe the Pens drafted Pouliot over Trouba.

Not a Pens fan, but I actually thought Pouliot looked really good in the TC "tryout" camp. Was surprised he was cut as quickly as he was. Team Canada is a pretty tough team to crack though.

Hard to knock Pittsburgh considering there is still a chance Pouliot turns into the better player(as far as Trouba is concerned).

HockeySensible 01-05-2013 05:24 PM

I've seen him alot in London and I don't think he'll be anything more than a #4/5 guy in the NHL. He's a decent transitional Dman, but not good and while he is good defensively, his lack of size (as a defensive D) and foot speed will make it alot more difficult on him in the NHL. I like Harrington at the junior level, but I can only see him being an average NHL Dman.. but, I will say, I think Harrington will be an NHLer for sure. Can't say that about every prospect.

Guru Meditation 01-05-2013 06:50 PM

This is a lot of NHL level optimism for playing decently on an awful, choking team in a short tournament.

Let's also not forget that he has 10 points in 30+ games and that London didn't miss a beat with him gone.

He's a good prospect, but let's calm down a bit with the first pairing defenseman type trade value talk.

Saving Greiss 01-05-2013 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkman360 (Post 57147287)
Not a Pens fan, but I actually thought Pouliot looked really good in the TC "tryout" camp. Was surprised he was cut as quickly as he was. Team Canada is a pretty tough team to crack though.

Hard to knock Pittsburgh considering there is still a chance Pouliot turns into the better player(as far as Trouba is concerned).

Trouba might be the better player when all is said and done, but Pouliot has the potential to be pretty good as well. Still too early...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eerie Hurdler (Post 57151235)
This is a lot of NHL level optimism for playing decently on an awful, choking team in a short tournament.

Except he's been garnering attention way before this tournament.

SEALBound 01-05-2013 10:54 PM

As a Pens fan, Pouliot over Grigs was a mistake in my eyes. Especially given the Pens Offensive vs Defensive prospect pool.

PensBandwagonerNo272 01-05-2013 11:01 PM

To me Harrington looks like he'll be a solid 2nd pairing stay-at-home guy for sure.

What makes him a great prospect is that he seems really poised and able to make that pro transition smoothly.

And yeah, on the subject, picking Pouliot was a big let down. I don't mind picking him over Trouba, but over Grigorenko?!

Tender Rip 01-05-2013 11:12 PM

It is nice that Harrington is doing well, very nice.

But many of my fellow Pens fans have gone into complete overdrive on his value.

If we could flip Harrington for any youngish, qualified NHL player that would be a big surprise.

Unless you are a lottery pick and/or has extreme hype, the only way you get major NHL trade value is by producing.... in the NHL.

With what Harrington has done so far, we could probably flip him for a 1st round pick that isn't a lottery one, but there would be little reason reason. Otherwise we are talking about using him to get a quality rental or something like that.

Warm Cookies 01-06-2013 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eerie Hurdler (Post 57151235)
This is a lot of NHL level optimism for playing decently on an awful, choking team in a short tournament.

Let's also not forget that he has 10 points in 30+ games and that London didn't miss a beat with him gone.

He's a good prospect, but let's calm down a bit with the first pairing defenseman type trade value talk.

He was selected as one of the 3 best players for Canada (along with Scheifele and RNH) at the tournament. Considering the amount of highly-touted talent on that team, I'd say that's a pretty significant accomplishment - I don't hear about Hamilton, Huberdeau, or Strome taking huge hits to their reputations based on playing for the same team, so your reasoning is pretty dubious here.

And a lot of junior teams have lost major contributors to the WJCs and not missed a beat. Portland hasn't lost a game since Seth Jones left - is that supposed to diminish his contributions?

Warm Cookies 01-06-2013 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Rip (Post 57160827)
It is nice that Harrington is doing well, very nice.

But many of my fellow Pens fans have gone into complete overdrive on his value.

If we could flip Harrington for any youngish, qualified NHL player that would be a big surprise.

Unless you are a lottery pick and/or has extreme hype, the only way you get major NHL trade value is by producing.... in the NHL.

With what Harrington has done so far, we could probably flip him for a 1st round pick that isn't a lottery one, but there would be little reason reason. Otherwise we are talking about using him to get a quality rental or something like that.

It's not about Harrington's value in a vacuum though, TR.

It's the value of arguably the best defensive defense prospect in the world to a team that got its doors blown off in its own end last year and is consequently looking to make a major blueline overhaul within the next couple years.

It would take a helluva lot to make me part with him, for those very reasons.

Tender Rip 01-06-2013 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper (Post 57164325)
It's not about Harrington's value in a vacuum though, TR.

It's the value of arguably the best defensive defense prospect in the world to a team that got its doors blown off in its own end last year and is consequently looking to make a major blueline overhaul within the next couple years.

It would take a helluva lot to make me part with him, for those very reasons.

Arguably the best defensive defense prospect in the world?
This is exactly what I mean. Rob Scuderi looked to be our best defensive defenseman when we won the cup, but it doesn't mean he had great tradevalue even if he hadn't been an UFA, nor does it mean that you cannot trade for reliable ready-mades to fulfill such duties. Scott Harrington had a spectacular coming out year last season and is continuing in that vein as a defensive specialist. That is great, but before he does his thing in the NHL, no one knows that he can be dominant there. As you can never consider him to have offensive upside, that says he is looking good to be a 3rd pairing D-man and PK'er in the NHL down the line.

As for his importance to our team, we didn't get our doors blown off because we had worthless D-men, but because we played worthless defense and had a goalie who made no key saves.

Vaunted Team Canada just gave up 11 goals in two games with nothing but highly rated D-men. Harrington was part of that, by no means the biggest culprit, but he was part of it. Doesn't mean Canada didn't have a kick ass roster - defensively as well. They just didn't perform when they had to - much like the Pens D against Philly. Harrington - like many out and out defenders - didn't fall as hard the others also because he isn't on the ice to take chances.

If we are REALLY lucky, Harington will be a player in mould of a Marc Eduard Vlasic. And for him to be that, he will need to improve quite a bit, and to beat out guys like Despres, Morrow and Dumoulin, not to mention Strait and Bortuzzo in the short term, for an NHL spot, it could take a while.... for a team that surely doesn't need ALL of its D (and Kris Letang) to be made up of guys who are wet behind the ears NHL wise.

You cannot win in the NHL with a bunch of early 20 somethings on D. It just doesn't happen. If we add two of our present stable of D-prospects over the next three years, that will be huge, and with our D-pipeline we are surely not going to fret trading a player who is most likely half a decade from progressing to a spot above the third pairing. At least we shouldn't.


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