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-   -   Now that the NHL is back (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1317711)

Pwnasaurus 01-07-2013 08:31 AM

Now that the NHL is back
 
I'm back and interested again.

There are a lot of generic threads with a lot of posts so I was hoping someone could give a Cliff's Notes version of anything of Ducks importance from the start of the lockout till now. I'm aware of the free agency moves but after that I took a leave of absence.

The only recent piece of news I know is that Gibson was the MVP of the WJC. Just looking for a quick summary on potential lineup for the opener, who's looked good during the lockout, any injuries, etc.

Exit Dose 01-07-2013 09:22 AM

The prospects:

Maroon looks like he might be able to challenge for a roster spot.

Lindholm is our best defenseman in Norfolk. He has suffered two concussions, thankfully both appear to have been minor. He looks like he'll be in Anaheim shortly. A case can be made for him as our top prospect.

Vatanen is pretty talented, but he has a bit of work to do down in Norfolk before he comes up.

Holland has emerged as our best forward down in Norfolk, even over Devo and Palmeri.

Etem is pretty talented, but barring him blowing it away in camp, we probably won't see him in a Ducks sweater this year.

Wagner has had a pretty good rookie season. He looks like he's going to be very good, but that's probably a season or two away.

Andersen and Bobkov are both pretty raw. Neither looks like they'll be ready for at least a season or two.

Rakell and Karlsson won silver. Karlsson was Sweden's MVP in that game. Both had their ups and downs but are looking good.

Welinski is one of the top freshmen defensemen in Division I.

Kerdiles was suspended for ten games for an amateurism violation, and likely missed out on playing for the US because of that. He has looked incredibly dangerous in his brief stint with Wisconsin.

Clark continues to make slow, but steady progress.

Kevin Roy and Andrew O'Brien both look intriguing.

Cam, Bobby, Sbisa, Beleskey, and Bonino went overseas. Bonino is a generational forward in the world of second-tier Italian ice hockey.

Kalv 01-07-2013 09:55 AM

http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/at...1&d=1345080869

The Sunshine Duke 01-10-2013 10:22 AM

The return of hockey means the return of posts by functional ******* on the main boards. When we left off, I was being told that it was simply a fact that Karlsson is (or is about to be) a better Paul Coffey.

Now, I hear that Nail Yakupov will certainly score 50 goals one day, and that means that the Ducks should trade Ryan for him if they ever want to win the Cup.

Hooray, hockey's back!

Duck Off 01-10-2013 11:35 AM

Exit summed up the prospects quite nicely. As far as the lineup projections, well it's anyone's guess: all we really know is this:

-expect Getz and perry to play together as usual. Who their linemate will be is anyone's guess.

-It's mentioned by management many times that Koivu will be 3rd line center.

-both Murray and BB praised our young guys and BB specifically mentioned Holland at one time. The majority assumption is that Holland and Bonino will be the other centers. Which is 2nd and which is 4th is anyone's guess.

-BB said he was going to make Cogs a full time winger and thought that would help him.

Palmieri seemed to be a lock for a roster spot but he hasn't really been dominate at the AHL level so I don't know if that's still the case. I still think he will be because of lack of options.

-the team in general is in desperate need of another top six LW, but I fully expect Murray to ignore that.

People have a variety of different line combinations and defensive pairings but I'm expecting it to look something like this based on personnel and comments the coach and management have made:

Palmieri-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Holland-Selanne
Winnik-Koivu-DSP
Cogs-Bonino-Beleskey
Staubitz

Beauchemin-Fowler
Allen-Sbisa
Souray-Lydman

Hiller
Fasth

Vipers31 01-10-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 (Post 57391415)
-the team in general is in desperate need of another top six LW, but I fully expect Murray to ignore that.

I kind of just disagree with that. We have a fantastic LW in Ryan for the second line. The first line already has two all-star players on it - there really should be something in our system that works there well enough to be a decent complimentary player to those two. I'm optimistic that Palmieri will be that. But even if he isn't, Getzlaf and Perry really need to be able to be somewhat productive with even a weaker complimentary player on there - otherwise they are not doing their job to the degree they need to be able to, and to the degree they'll want to be paid to.

We really should be able to expect them to take guys like Palmieri, or DSP, or even Beleskey and make them better, instead of longing for an addition to make Getzlaf/Perry more productive.

Duck Off 01-10-2013 03:25 PM

I just don't think it's wise two count on two rookies for top six roles. One maybe, but not two. I'm not talking about an allstar here, but we need someone who can handle the job. I wish we would look into trying to get Morrow from Dallas. Perfect fit IMO.

Ducksgo* 01-10-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 (Post 57403717)
I just don't think it's wise two count on two rookies for top six roles. One maybe, but not two. I'm not talking about an allstar here, but we need someone who can handle the job. I wish we would look into trying to get Morrow from Dallas. Perfect fit IMO.

Trade with a divisional rival?

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 (Post 57403717)
I just don't think it's wise two count on two rookies for top six roles. One maybe, but not two. I'm not talking about an allstar here, but we need someone who can handle the job. I wish we would look into trying to get Morrow from Dallas. Perfect fit IMO.

Two rookies?

AngelDuck 01-10-2013 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57404539)
Two rookies?

Assuming Holland and Palmieri make top 6, then yes...Two rookies

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 57405423)
Assuming Holland and Palmieri make top 6, then yes...Two rookies

We don't have a reason to assume that, yet.

AngelDuck 01-10-2013 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57405525)
We don't have a reason to assume that, yet.

OK, but the original comment was saying that he doesn't think it's wise to have two rookies in the top 6. I don't see anything wrong with that opinion

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelDuck (Post 57405619)
OK, but the original comment was saying that he doesn't think it's wise to have two rookies in the top 6. I don't see anything wrong with that opinion

He had them in his top six. I don't think we should assume that to be the case at all.

Ducksgo* 01-10-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57405879)
He had them in his top six. I don't think we should assume that to be the case at all.

I agree two rookies? Top 6? That's just nuts! Might as well throw in the towel for this season and look toward the draft.

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 04:47 PM

I think that we need to remember that Holland has only done as much as Bonino had when he came up to play in our bottom six. We need to wait and see what he does in camp before we even consider him as a top six'er for this season.

TooHotToTrotz 01-10-2013 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalvinators (Post 57231647)

This post has received nowhere near the amount of attention it deserves, haha.

Paul4587 01-10-2013 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57407495)
I think that we need to remember that Holland has only done as much as Bonino had when he came up to play in our bottom six. We need to wait and see what he does in camp before we even consider him as a top six'er for this season.

I seem to be in the minority who thinks Holland is a better option for the 2C role than Bonino. Sure, he has only done about as much as Bonino in the AHL but Bonino was a lot older and didn't have to play in the super AHL enrvironment like Holland. Neither have proven they belong on a 2nd line but IMO Holland's skillset will translate a lot better to that role than Bonino's who IMO is too slow and not strong enough to hold down a 2nd line role on any team who hopes to contend for the playoffs.

Holland may or may not prove to be up to it but the reward is higher with him in that role.

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 05:33 PM

That is a pretty broad exaggeration of how good the AHL was this year. It was a little closer to the NHL, but make no mistake, there was still a vast qualitative difference between the two. It was a better version of the AHL, not a weaker version of the NHL.

The age makes no difference. It's where they are at in their development that matters. Just because Holland likely ends up the better player when all is said and done, makes no difference if that isn't the case right now.

Paul4587 01-10-2013 05:35 PM

I think Holland's skillset is significantly better already. It's whether or not he can mentally handle the NHL game and is consistent enough to be counted on.

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul4587 (Post 57409667)
I think Holland's skillset is significantly better already. It's whether or not he can mentally handle the NHL game and is consistent enough to be counted on.

His playmaking still isn't.

Duck Off 01-10-2013 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vipers31 (Post 57395487)
I kind of just disagree with that. We have a fantastic LW in Ryan for the second line. The first line already has two all-star players on it - there really should be something in our system that works there well enough to be a decent complimentary player to those two. I'm optimistic that Palmieri will be that. But even if he isn't, Getzlaf and Perry really need to be able to be somewhat productive with even a weaker complimentary player on there - otherwise they are not doing their job to the degree they need to be able to, and to the degree they'll want to be paid to.

We really should be able to expect them to take guys like Palmieri, or DSP, or even Beleskey and make them better, instead of longing for an addition to make Getzlaf/Perry more productive.

Maybe they should produce more by themselves but history has shown us that they have been most successful with a top six forward with them (Ryan and Kunitz). Beleskey is not the answer there. That's been tried to many times and failed. I expect that spot next to them to occupied by one of Palmieri or DSP, and IMO neither are ready for such responsibility.

As for Holland, yes I fully expect him to be number two center. Why else would Murray identify center as his primary position we need to upgrade and then say he thought we had young guys that could do well there instead. If he meant Bonino then he's more stupid then I thought.

If he really intended Bonino to be ok as our 2nd line center, then he goes and spends 7 million dollars+ for our 4th and 5th defenseman, he's clueless. Terrible asset management.

My point is that as of now, our team has 4 top six forwards (Getz, Perry, Ryan, and Selanne). I don't think it's smart to ask two young guys to fill the other spots. I also don't think it's wrong to want at least 5 top six forwards going into a season.

Murray has done a fabulous job of leaving big holes on our team over the past few years, so I imagine this is where the hole will be this year.

Duck Off 01-10-2013 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57405525)
We don't have a reason to assume that, yet.

Not saying my lineup is going to be accurate but I don't see many alternatives. I should have said young players instead of rookies, but here's a better way to phrase it: i don't think it's smart entering a season with only 4 top six forwards.

The Sunshine Duke 01-10-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57409567)
That is a pretty broad exaggeration of how good the AHL was this year. It was a little closer to the NHL, but make no mistake, there was still a vast qualitative difference between the two. It was a better version of the AHL, not a weaker version of the NHL.

The age makes no difference. It's where they are at in their development that matters. Just because Holland likely ends up the better player when all is said and done, makes no difference if that isn't the case right now.

A vas deferens between men's league and a boy's league. Or something.

Duck Off 01-10-2013 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exit Dose (Post 57409777)
His playmaking still isn't.

His playmaking skill needs work no question but he doesn't strike me as someone who's ever going to be a big playmaker. He reminds me a lot of Jeff carter. Seems like a great fit for Ryan. I just worry a little about the defense of a Ryan- Holland-Selanne line. Teemu is more of a playmaker at ES now anyway.

Exit Dose 01-10-2013 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 (Post 57410721)
His playmaking skill needs work no question but he doesn't strike me as someone who's ever going to be a big playmaker. He reminds me a lot of Jeff carter. Seems like a great fit for Ryan. I just worry a little about the defense of a Ryan- Holland-Selanne line. Teemu is more of a playmaker at ES now anyway.

Agreed.


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