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-   -   Proposal: Habs-Flyers proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1318229)

AcadiaAxeMan 01-07-2013 07:18 PM

Habs-Flyers proposal
 
What do Hab/Flyer fans think of this trade:

Subban+Plekanecs+Palushaj

for

Couturier+Voracek+Bourdon


Why Flyers consider it? IMO Flyers have Laughton coming along to eventually replace Couturier and get PK to replace Pronger's minutes and a SOLID #2 center NOW to go for it this year.

Why Habs consider it? IMO Habs get a young-strong defensive C for many years in Couturier which allows Deharnais and Elller to take more offensive rolls (+Galyenchuck) a solid winger top 6 winger in Voracek (to displace Bourque on the top 6) and a solid young D-man with toughness. We have solid D prospects in Beaulieu/Tinordi/Bennet.


Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Boullion-Diaz/Weber/Bourdon

Cole-Deharnais-Pacioretty
Voracek-Eller-Gionta
Prust-Couturier-Armstrong/Bourque
Moen-Gomez/Nokelainen-White


Discuss.....

MasterDecoy 01-07-2013 07:29 PM

i don't like this one bit.... :rant:

JayKing 01-07-2013 07:31 PM

Pass. Subban will sign with Montreal. No need for Couturier. Voracek & Bourdon are interesting, but I'd rather keep Plekanec. You can have Palushaj though :sarcasm:

BrindamoursNose 01-07-2013 07:32 PM

You don't want bourdon. Sidelined indefinitely with concussion issues.

DeflatedFootball7 01-07-2013 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmdubois585 (Post 57259875)
Pass. Subban will sign with Montreal. No need for Couturier. Voracek & Bourdon are interesting, but I'd rather keep Plekanec. You can have Palushaj though :sarcasm:

:laugh: Sure your a Habs fan?

CHill Seeker 01-07-2013 07:35 PM

i like couturier and voracek is coming around but habs restocked with the likes of galchenyuk, collberg, etc.
dmen like subban are generational imo, so no deal fro Montreal's pov

JayKing 01-07-2013 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 (Post 57260025)
:laugh: Sure your a Habs fan?

Yes. Plekanec is what Couturier would bring while Eller is a lesser-Couturier that can still improve, especially offensivly. Don't get me wrong, Couturier is great, but he's not a need especially at the expense of Subban. Our biggest needs is a 2 line LW & a 2nd pairing shutdown D. Although you're right that many Habs fan would do a deal around Couts and PK.

Playmaker09 01-07-2013 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 (Post 57260025)
:laugh: Sure your a Habs fan?

We don't need him. We have our three centers for the year (DD, Pleks and Eller), two of which are excellent defensively (Pleks and Eller). Next year Galchenyuk is a sure bet to make the team as well. We have plenty of quality two-way players and had the second best PK in the NHL last year (and will add Prust, Gionta and Markov to the rotation). What we need is a first line forward and a good #2 defeseman, none of which is being offered. To get us to move Plekanec, we'd need one of those two needs to be filled (be it through established players or potential). As for Subban, I can't see him going anywhere, for anyone.

AcadiaAxeMan 01-07-2013 07:43 PM

thanks for the feedback...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CHill Seeker (Post 57260065)
i like couturier and voracek is coming around but habs restocked with the likes of galchenyuk, collberg, etc.
dmen like subban are generational imo, so no deal fro Montreal's pov

I know - but have a funny feeling that negotiations may hit a "snag". Flyers would look to win now - we can have more patience - long-term move in my book (Couturier at 19 - Plekanecs at 29) but to lose PK hurts, bad!! Gotta give to get!

BTW - just sayin - I am anti-tank always but it would give us a better shot at Jones-MacKinnon-Nyska(whatever)

StevensCakeBakerBacker 01-07-2013 08:08 PM

Please keep PK, and all his generational talent :laugh:, in Montreal. I'd rather keep Voracek and Couts.

CanadienShark 01-07-2013 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 (Post 57260025)
:laugh: Sure your a Habs fan?

He's sure. We have: Eller (good two way centre with potential), Plekanec (great two way centre who's in his prime), Desharnais (a pretty young playmaker with potential), Galchenyuk (superstar potential)... who is he going to displace? Desharnais and Plekanec have chemistry and are arguably better right now than Couturier, and Galchenyuk is well on his way. Heck even Eller could out do Couturier career wise, quite easily. He simply doesn't fit well. I like the kid (even if he's older than me.......), but he simply doesn't fit.

OT: PK will never go, at least until he reaches his potential or busts. He could be such a great defenseman, he's a fan favourite, and he's just plain exciting to watch!

Krishna 01-07-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan (Post 57259353)
What do Hab/Flyer fans think of this trade:

Subban+Plekanecs+Palushaj

for

Couturier+Voracek+Bourdon


Why Flyers consider it? IMO Flyers have Laughton coming along to eventually replace Couturier and get PK to replace Pronger's minutes and a SOLID #2 center NOW to go for it this year.

Why Habs consider it? IMO Habs get a young-strong defensive C for many years in Couturier which allows Deharnais and Elller to take more offensive rolls (+Galyenchuck) a solid winger top 6 winger in Voracek (to displace Bourque on the top 6) and a solid young D-man with toughness. We have solid D prospects in Beaulieu/Tinordi/Bennet.


Markov-Emelin
Kaberle-Gorges
Boullion-Diaz/Weber/Bourdon

Cole-Deharnais-Pacioretty
Voracek-Eller-Gionta
Prust-Couturier-Armstrong/Bourque
Moen-Gomez/Nokelainen-White


Discuss.....

I'm sorry what?

Most flyers fans see Laughton as a 3rd or 4th line center that is still a few years out. This trade makes us worse now and in the future. Pass.

Krishna 01-07-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadienShark (Post 57262055)
He's sure. We have: Eller (good two way centre with potential), Plekanec (great two way centre who's in his prime), Desharnais (a pretty young playmaker with potential), Galchenyuk (superstar potential)... who is he going to displace? Desharnais and Plekanec have chemistry and are arguably better right now than Couturier, and Galchenyuk is well on his way. Heck even Eller could out do Couturier career wise, quite easily. He simply doesn't fit well. I like the kid (even if he's older than me.......), but he simply doesn't fit.

OT: PK will never go, at least until he reaches his potential or busts. He could be such a great defenseman, he's a fan favourite, and he's just plain exciting to watch!

Plekanec is included in the posted deal

33 01-07-2013 08:24 PM

Flyers get wrecked in this one. I think a Subban for Voracek base could be interesting though.

CanadienShark 01-07-2013 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57262205)
Plekanec is included in the posted deal

So we're giving up two very valuable pieces for one that we don't need, because what we've got is currently better. Subban we cannot afford to give up, nor do we want to. He's a non starter unless it's something along the lines of Karlsson, Weber, Doughty, Letang, Pietrangelo... coming back, which will never happen.

CanadienShark 01-07-2013 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Canuck (Post 57262531)
Flyers get wrecked in this one. I think a Subban for Voracek base could be interesting though.

..................... :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
:help::help::help:

Playmaker09 01-07-2013 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57262175)
I'm sorry what?

Most flyers fans see Laughton as a 3rd or 4th line center that is still a few years out. This trade makes us worse now and in the future. Pass.

On what planet? We give up the two best players in the deal. At this point, Voracek is a second line winger and Couturier's a #3C. How on earth are either of those better than a top pairing defenseman or a quality #2C.

AcadiaAxeMan 01-07-2013 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57262175)
I'm sorry what?

Most flyers fans see Laughton as a 3rd or 4th line center that is still a few years out. This trade makes us worse now and in the future. Pass.

The Sports Forcaster " The Flyers may have another two-way pivot in the Mike Richards mold in gritty Laughton, who does not have Richards' upside but plays with similar reckless abandon. While he's a few years away there's lots of intriguing upside here" ....

BrindamoursNose 01-07-2013 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan (Post 57262787)
The Sports Forcaster " The Flyers may have another two-way pivot in the Mike Richards mold in gritty Laughton, who does not have Richards' upside but plays with similar reckless abandon. While he's a few years away there's lots of intriguing upside here" ....

Exactly. 3/4 line center.

Krishna 01-07-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmaker09 (Post 57262735)
On what planet? We give up the two best players in the deal. At this point, Voracek is a second line winger and Couturier's a #3C. How on earth are either of those better than a top pairing defenseman or a quality #2C.

Voracek scored 49 points last year on the 2nd line as he was stuck behind Jagr. This season he will be on the top line with Giroux and Hartnell. 60 points isn't out of the question for him.

Plekanec is average to slightly above average in defensive play. Who is going to make up for the loss in defensive play from Couturier?

Couturier was playing on a line with 4th line players last year got almost no PP time and still scored 27 points. His offense has only picked up during the lockout while in the AHL.

While Subban is good, I don't think this combined deal makes the flyers better.

Palusha and Bourdon are basically throw ins in this deal.

The flyers surplus is center. We are somewhat weak at LW. So we are trading from a strength and weekness for another center and a D man.

The added salary we take on just doesn't work out.

AcadiaAxeMan 01-07-2013 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmaker09 (Post 57262735)
On what planet? We give up the two best players in the deal. At this point, Voracek is a second line winger and Couturier's a #3C. How on earth are either of those better than a top pairing defenseman or a quality #2C.

Holes need to be filled in a roster - what happens to Plecks (or other C's) when Galyenchuk comes? Voracek fills a need area in top 6 forward winger with SIZE and grit and scoring ....that other than Pacioretty, we don't have (or have in our system ..... Collberg - crafty but small - Gallagher crafty but small with grit + tude - Kristo skilled + speed) I like the +10 years and useful talents of Couturier for the next 10 vs Plecks as "good as he is now" but let's face it ~ he's not on a contender and will get bumped / traded eventually. (don't get me wrong - he is a skilled "puck posession" 2-way center who's worth has never been higher to a contender). It's a future move that losing PK is the biggest loss and pill to swallow IMO!

JayKing 01-07-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57263309)
Voracek scored 49 points last year on the 2nd line as he was stuck behind Jagr. This season he will be on the top line with Giroux and Hartnell. 60 points isn't out of the question for him.

Plekanec is average to slightly above average in defensive play. Who is going to make up for the loss in defensive play from Couturier?

Couturier was playing on a line with 4th line players last year got almost no PP time and still scored 27 points. His offense has only picked up during the lockout while in the AHL.

While Subban is good, I don't think this combined deal makes the flyers better.

Palusha and Bourdon are basically throw ins in this deal.

The flyers surplus is center. We are somewhat weak at LW. So we are trading from a strength and weekness for another center and a D man.

The added salary we take on just doesn't work out.

Are you really saying that right now Couts > Pleks defensivly. If so, that's more then laughable.

Krishna 01-07-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmdubois585 (Post 57263831)
Are you really saying that right now Couts > Pleks defensivly. If so, that's more then laughable.

Couturier is definitely a better defensive player than Plekanec

AcadiaAxeMan 01-07-2013 08:54 PM

Don't agree - he's 10 years younger which is a selling point for me - but Pleks led us to a 2nd best PK (no pun intended) singlehandedly! Pleaks is a perfect 2nd line C - puck posession - PK + PP worthy. He is a different look this short season that could end the drought - besides that, you get SUBBAN a young stud on D ..... you guys doubting this are making me even re-think it (AND I am a HABS fan!)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57263939)
Couturier is definitely a better defensive player than Plekanec


Playmaker09 01-07-2013 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57263309)
Voracek scored 49 points last year on the 2nd line as he was stuck behind Jagr. This season he will be on the top line with Giroux and Hartnell. 60 points isn't out of the question for him.

Plekanec is average to slightly above average in defensive play. Who is going to make up for the loss in defensive play from Couturier?

Couturier was playing on a line with 4th line players last year got almost no PP time and still scored 27 points. His offense has only picked up during the lockout while in the AHL.

While Subban is good, I don't think this combined deal makes the flyers better.

Palusha and Bourdon are basically throw ins in this deal.

The flyers surplus is center. We are somewhat weak at LW. So we are trading from a strength and weekness for another center and a D man.

The added salary we take on just doesn't work out.

Plekanec played on the second line with Moen and Darche for half the year and still put up more points. With competent offensive players he's put up ~70 points twice. Again, there's no argument for Voracek being the better player right now.

Who will replace Couturier's defensive play? Umm, I don't know? Maybe the guy who only a year ago finished 13th in Selke voting (15th this year, in a down year)? The guy who shut down Crosby (5 points in 7 games), Ovechkin/Backstrom (had two outstanding games, but were held to 5 points combined in the other 5 games) and Krejci (held to one point in 7 games, then went on to lead the playoffs in scoring as the Bruins won the cup) in the playoffs? The guy who, this year, played the second most PK minutes among all NHL forwards and lead the Habs to the #2 overall penalty kill?

He's either one of the most underrated players in the league, or you're just badly misinformed.


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