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-   -   Value of: Kaberle or Gionta if we eat half their salary? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1318317)

TheGoalJudge 01-07-2013 09:54 PM

Kaberle or Gionta if we eat half their salary?
 
So according to LeBrun, teams can eat salary in trades now so...

You can have either Gionta for 2.5M this year and next

OR

Kaberle for 2.1M this year and next.

Are these guys worth anything now?

Gionta surely...

MXD 01-07-2013 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge (Post 57267445)
So according to LeBrun, teams can eat salary in trades now so...

You can have either Gionta for 2.5M this year and next

OR

Kaberle for 2.1M this year and next.

Are these guys worth anything now?

Gionta surely...

Gionta is certainly worth something. But certainly has uses.

Kaberle has NO USE on Montreal.

Porn* 01-07-2013 10:04 PM

I'd take Gionta on the Leafs at 2.5. He could provide some help at the C position.

KeninsFan 01-07-2013 10:06 PM

To clarify - is that Gionta at @2.5M salary AND cap hit? Or just salary?

TheGoalJudge 01-07-2013 10:07 PM

Salary and Hit from what I understand. He's still a huge steal at that number.

AJ SF4L 01-07-2013 10:15 PM

If the Habs eat half the salary/cap hit, the Gionta for Clowe trade might go over more easily with Sharks fans.

TheGoalJudge 01-07-2013 10:19 PM

My original thinking was trying to finagle a decent pick from a team like PHX who doesn't want to spend money but wants/needs good players.

Gionta + pick for PHX's 1st rd is what I was thinking. Hope that is realistic.

glenbuis 01-07-2013 11:15 PM

I think Gionta has more valu to us rite now. At the trade deadline could be a different story. Lets not give him away or eat any salary. Also there are several teams who are in need of D and someone will/can use Kaberle. A fourth would do.

WTFetus 01-07-2013 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ SF4L (Post 57268663)
If the Habs eat half the salary/cap hit, the Gionta for Clowe trade might go over more easily with Sharks fans.

Not sure if Montreal would do that, but I'd do that without a doubt.

Hatrick Marleau 01-08-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ SF4L (Post 57268663)
If the Habs eat half the salary/cap hit, the Gionta for Clowe trade might go over more easily with Sharks fans.

I'd do that for sure.

PATCHESx67 01-08-2013 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 57273331)
Not sure if Montreal would do that, but I'd do that without a doubt.

he comes in a package deal with Gomez

Hatrick Marleau 01-08-2013 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATCHESx67 (Post 57275321)
he comes in a package deal with Gomez

Only if you eat all of Gomez salary.:naughty:

danishh 01-08-2013 03:34 AM

sens will take kaberle @ 2.1 for a third.

Hutz 01-08-2013 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatrick Marleau (Post 57275733)
Only if you eat all of Gomez salary.:naughty:

That's a big meal! You'd need the appetite of a shark... oh wait...

boredmale 01-08-2013 03:44 AM

This team can trade a player paying up to 50% of their salary can open a huge loophole this summer.

Team A could sign a UFA(Or RFA for that matter) say to 25M over 5 years

Team A trades that UFA to Team B and pays half his salary

Team A trades a guy they want to buy out with amnesty to Team B and Team B buys them out

Using Rick Dipietro for instance he will have 8 years left on his deal @ 4.5M a year. It would cost the Islanders 24M to buy him out. But if they offer a team 12M towards a player they want to sign as a UFA that is half the price for that team who is fighting the cap

Hutz 01-08-2013 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredmale (Post 57277727)
This team can trade a player paying up to 50% of their salary can open a huge loophole this summer.

Team A could sign a UFA(Or RFA for that matter) say to 25M over 5 years

Team A trades that UFA to Team B and pays half his salary

Team A trades a guy they want to buy out with amnesty to Team B and Team B buys them out

Using Rick Dipietro for instance he will have 8 years left on his deal @ 4.5M a year. It would cost the Islanders 24M to buy him out. But if they offer a team 12M towards a player they want to sign as a UFA that is half the price for that team who is fighting the cap

But wouldn't that team then have to pay Dipietro's buyout, thus negating the benefit??

Edit: ahh, the amnesty buyout, of course, was confused... Still, what's the benefit for the Islanders in this scenario... couldn't they just buyout Dipietro themselves without having to take the UFA's cap hit?

boredmale 01-08-2013 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutz (Post 57277751)
But wouldn't that team then have to pay Dipietro's buyout, thus negating the benefit??

Not if they buy him out during the amnesty period

Let's make a hypothetical scenario

Boston Trades Seguin to the Islanders for Dipietro

Islanders sign Seguin to a 6 year 36M dollar deal

Islanders trade Seguin back to Boston paying 3M a year of his deal

Boston buys out Dipietro during the amnesty period

Basically for Boston Seguin only counts towards 3M of their cap in this scenario, for the Islanders they save 6M having Boston buy out Dipietro

All that being said if you the GM of Boston you better have alot of faith the Islanders don't pull a fast one(and you probably use a lesser player(s) then Seguin)

Hutz 01-08-2013 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredmale (Post 57277757)
Not if they buy him out during the amnesty period

Yeah, sorry, realized that shortly after posting... but what benefit does team A get? They now have to pay for half of team B's UFA's salary when they could have just used the amnesty buyout themselves for a 0$ cap hit.

boredmale 01-08-2013 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutz (Post 57277781)
Yeah, sorry, realized that shortly after posting... but what benefit does team A get? They now have to pay for half of team B's UFA's salary when they could have just used the amnesty buyout themselves for a 0$ cap hit.

Team A can (indirectly) buy the guy out at a lesser price and in the case of a team like the Islanders, 0 cap hit means nothing

Basically you would need a team that is fighting the cap max and a team that is a cap min team to pull off a deal like this

thadd 01-08-2013 04:06 AM

I figure Kaberle is worth 3 mill at this point. If he was making 3 mill playing on a decent team's third pairing and 2nd PP I think it would be a pretty good deal.

I imagine there are teams out there who'd take all of Gionta's salary. He's small but useful when playing with the right kind of players. He'd look good with the Penguins next to Malkin IMO.

I don't think Montreal really needs to worry about this...

1. They're looking like tankers right now and the top 4 guys in the next draft are looking pretty juicy
2. They've got 6M+ cap space right now
3. They've got deep pockets and Kaberle and Gomez will probably get bought out at the end of the season.

I can understand if some Habs fans are frustrated with the current line-up, but when the team stalled they already had a decent number of up and coming core players... so it's not like they're going to suffer like Edmonton did.

Tank this year and go BPA and Montreal will surely have enough young spark to attract the right kind of free agents and at the same time Montreal will have tons of cap space to get the pick of the litter.

Hutz 01-08-2013 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredmale (Post 57277821)
Team A can (indirectly) buy the guy out at a lesser price and in the case of a team like the Islanders, 0 cap hit means nothing

Basically you would need a team that is fighting the cap max and a team that is a cap min team to pull off a deal like this

Yeah, I see what you mean now... interesting concept, but seems convoluted enough that I can't imagine it becoming a common practice. Only applies the next two summers as well, and both teams would have to be in specific enough circumstances to make it worthwhile. No team is under the cap at this point, so no team really needs to take on unnecessary salary.


EDIT: This just brought up a question, which I assume no one can answer yet. If Team A trades half a player's salary to Team B and team B then buys that player out, how much is Team A on the books for??? The salary or buyout amount???

boredmale 01-08-2013 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutz (Post 57277877)
Only applies the next two summers as well

I thought Amnesty buyouts only happen this summer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hutz (Post 57277877)
EDIT: This just brought up a question, which I assume no one can answer yet. If Team A trades half a player's salary to Team B and team B then buys that player out, how much is Team A on the books for??? The salary or buyout amount???

I would assume they would be part of the buyout and charged both for salary and caphit purposes accordingly

SpeakingOfTheDevils 01-08-2013 05:26 AM

The Devils would want Gionta back if he can be had for $2.5M. Although the Gionta-for-Clowe swap sounds too enticing for MTL for them to even consider what we'd offer.

Blind Gardien 01-08-2013 08:30 AM

I personally wouldn't get too eager to get into the game of retaining cap hits on traded players. I would use it as a last resort maybe on a deal if a situation was already a bit dicey on a trade once things were already well under way, but I wouldn't go around looking for that kind of trade before a season even starts. The compliance buyouts are going to give the Habs plenty of cap room, true, but the team is not that good, so whatever cap room the team does have should really be used for improvements, not to stockpile dead space. Play the season (or at least up to near the trade deadline) first, before really looking into this, I'd say. :dunno: Player valuations may be pretty dramatically different this season than what we remember from a year ago in some cases.

Vitto79 01-08-2013 08:36 AM

so get this straight it means if a player makes say 4 million and a team agrees to eat 2 million then that 2 million is on the trading teams cap and the team acquiring takes on the rest on their cap?

Interesting if so. It should mean players making less money who were candidates to be bought out SHOULD be able to get dealt instead of bought out even if a team only eats 500K or something small.

btw Montreal and Calgary should be partying with 2 buyouts, they can get rid of 2 junk contracts and sadly still have more junk to try and dump


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